The Players : Are they good enough?

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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:09 am

elkanofan wrote:Its new manager bounce finally coming in. The players are working harder but the same issues remain. That's the main difference with Arteta

We score goals due to luck through deflections and from corners. We can't carve teams open during openplay. Arteta ain't going to work miracles in a short space of time but his philosophy is shhowing however its working mainly due tot he effort off the ball.

On the ball while the shape is good and works well building with possession, we have no ball carriers in midfield. Ozil is so f***ing slow in possession and can only pass. Buy a real attacking mid and this team could look ok maybe till the end of the season.

We still badly need another center mid especially if Xhaka still wants to leave.

Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!! New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.

Our improvement is down to hard work and hard work alone not some sprinkling of magic new manager pixie dust.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby elkanofan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 10:32 am

theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Özim » Thu Jan 02, 2020 11:33 am

elkanofan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.


I agree, re the new manager bounce, not uncommon for a new manager to come in and have an impact on morale, players probably feel excited by something new instead of the same stale old nonsense. Trick is to maintain it over a long period and achieve something.

1 win, 1 draw and 1 defeat from 3 games, 4 points from 9, not too bad but hopefully we can win more games now.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby ag6789 » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:06 pm

Wouldn't worry if the new manager bounce continues for next 17 games.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Chris Sharma » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:14 pm

If somebody does not see the improvement in our system and that it is the key factor we are playing better :BangHead: :BangHead:
Even the purest "Arsenal hating" pundits saw it clearly and admitted it.

Also I got my old Arsenal back, we are playing like Arsenal should play. The trash we had shown under Emery was something I have never witnesses before. I hope we never see that kind of anti-football again :badcomp:
Europa League win is possible with this team and we still can reach top6 at least this season. Next season we need a few players for sure.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:28 pm

elkanofan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.


Define 'New Manager Bounce' because that term is being thrown around without much of an explanation. Hothead is right when he says it sounds like some sort of magical fairy dust.

For me, it means players are looking to impress the manager and we see more energy. That is certainly the case under Arteta but surely you can see a tactical shift and structure in place that wasn't there before?

Under Emery, when he first arrived, we saw the enthusiasm to impress but none of the structure. That's why we'd concede and look so open even in the early days when we went on that run. We'd tend to lose the first half but win in the second after the manager has made a tactical shift and made subs. Individual brilliance would bail us out to score goals but in terms of defending we were always poor and it just got worse as the players enthusiasm and confidence dipped. The team weren't pressing with intensity, they didn't look compact or organised, we could barely string a pass together and most notable change compared to Wenger was the short passing and having a manager willing to tinker with tactics with early subs.

Under Arteta, so far, we can see an organised pressing structure. It's not just one or two players, they all press as a unit and it's organised. The fullbacks get right on there man if it goes to the wing and they're right at the heels not allowing the player to turn. Same goes for the other midfielders and CB's. They're closing down space quickly and not allowing their opponent to turn and run at them. It's high energy stuff and we need to really improve our fitness to keep it going. But so far, so good. Even without the win, you could see the shift in the previous two games.

The backline looks way more organised, distances are better, players are busting a gut to cover space and not just leave our CB's exposed. That's enthusiasm but it takes organisation and training to look that way. AMN isn't just overlapping as a normal wingback, he's dropping infield more as an inverted wingback. Ozil is dropping back more to help in the first phase transition linking up well with AMN and Pepe. Just a little more sharpness and we'd have beaten Utd by 3 or 4.

It's early days but most can see the tactical shift and it's not just a case of individual brilliance buying us points when we attack. I'm more impressed with how we look defensively. We didn't get this sort of bounce back with Freddie and considering how much worse things got under Freddie I didn't expect the players to respond to another manager with no experience. I'm assuming the players are impressed with Arteta's knowledge and it's not just a case of trying to impress a new manager. We'll see how it goes and we still have a long way to go but I like what i see so far.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Özim » Thu Jan 02, 2020 12:38 pm

Chris Sharma wrote:If somebody does not see the improvement in our system and that it is the key factor we are playing better :BangHead: :BangHead:
Even the purest "Arsenal hating" pundits saw it clearly and admitted it.

Also I got my old Arsenal back, we are playing like Arsenal should play. The trash we had shown under Emery was something I have never witnesses before. I hope we never see that kind of anti-football again :badcomp:
Europa League win is possible with this team and we still can reach top6 at least this season. Next season we need a few players for sure.


It's 3 games, we were so bad before that it' not much of a surprise we're seeing an improvement, you'd have to be pretty awful at management not to. Expectations are so low these days in reality, let's see how the rest of the season works out, been OK so far but I'm not too impressed with his liking for Xhaka, we need to get rid of this guy if we're going to get anywhere.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Thu Jan 02, 2020 4:50 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.


Define 'New Manager Bounce' because that term is being thrown around without much of an explanation. Hothead is right when he says it sounds like some sort of magical fairy dust.

For me, it means players are looking to impress the manager and we see more energy. That is certainly the case under Arteta but surely you can see a tactical shift and structure in place that wasn't there before?

Under Emery, when he first arrived, we saw the enthusiasm to impress but none of the structure. That's why we'd concede and look so open even in the early days when we went on that run. We'd tend to lose the first half but win in the second after the manager has made a tactical shift and made subs. Individual brilliance would bail us out to score goals but in terms of defending we were always poor and it just got worse as the players enthusiasm and confidence dipped. The team weren't pressing with intensity, they didn't look compact or organised, we could barely string a pass together and most notable change compared to Wenger was the short passing and having a manager willing to tinker with tactics with early subs.

Under Arteta, so far, we can see an organised pressing structure. It's not just one or two players, they all press as a unit and it's organised. The fullbacks get right on there man if it goes to the wing and they're right at the heels not allowing the player to turn. Same goes for the other midfielders and CB's. They're closing down space quickly and not allowing their opponent to turn and run at them. It's high energy stuff and we need to really improve our fitness to keep it going. But so far, so good. Even without the win, you could see the shift in the previous two games.

The backline looks way more organised, distances are better, players are busting a gut to cover space and not just leave our CB's exposed. That's enthusiasm but it takes organisation and training to look that way. AMN isn't just overlapping as a normal wingback, he's dropping infield more as an inverted wingback. Ozil is dropping back more to help in the first phase transition linking up well with AMN and Pepe. Just a little more sharpness and we'd have beaten Utd by 3 or 4.

It's early days but most can see the tactical shift and it's not just a case of individual brilliance buying us points when we attack. I'm more impressed with how we look defensively. We didn't get this sort of bounce back with Freddie and considering how much worse things got under Freddie I didn't expect the players to respond to another manager with no experience. I'm assuming the players are impressed with Arteta's knowledge and it's not just a case of trying to impress a new manager. We'll see how it goes and we still have a long way to go but I like what i see so far.

You took the time and effort to write what I couldn't be bothered too

What is happening at Arsenal is not new manager bounce, its players now playing in a system and in positions that suit them. This has nothing to do with players trying to impress the new man, why was this not evident for Freddie?

Its a tactical change and change in focus that have generated improved performance game on game. So like I said, new manager bounce my arse, ,we are playing an entirely different game of football than we were 2 weeks ago.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Chris Sharma » Thu Jan 02, 2020 6:15 pm

Power n Glory wrote:........


really good post.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby LMAO » Thu Jan 02, 2020 7:22 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.


Define 'New Manager Bounce' because that term is being thrown around without much of an explanation. Hothead is right when he says it sounds like some sort of magical fairy dust.

For me, it means players are looking to impress the manager and we see more energy. That is certainly the case under Arteta but surely you can see a tactical shift and structure in place that wasn't there before?

Under Emery, when he first arrived, we saw the enthusiasm to impress but none of the structure. That's why we'd concede and look so open even in the early days when we went on that run. We'd tend to lose the first half but win in the second after the manager has made a tactical shift and made subs. Individual brilliance would bail us out to score goals but in terms of defending we were always poor and it just got worse as the players enthusiasm and confidence dipped. The team weren't pressing with intensity, they didn't look compact or organised, we could barely string a pass together and most notable change compared to Wenger was the short passing and having a manager willing to tinker with tactics with early subs.

Under Arteta, so far, we can see an organised pressing structure. It's not just one or two players, they all press as a unit and it's organised. The fullbacks get right on there man if it goes to the wing and they're right at the heels not allowing the player to turn. Same goes for the other midfielders and CB's. They're closing down space quickly and not allowing their opponent to turn and run at them. It's high energy stuff and we need to really improve our fitness to keep it going. But so far, so good. Even without the win, you could see the shift in the previous two games.

The backline looks way more organised, distances are better, players are busting a gut to cover space and not just leave our CB's exposed. That's enthusiasm but it takes organisation and training to look that way. AMN isn't just overlapping as a normal wingback, he's dropping infield more as an inverted wingback. Ozil is dropping back more to help in the first phase transition linking up well with AMN and Pepe. Just a little more sharpness and we'd have beaten Utd by 3 or 4.

It's early days but most can see the tactical shift and it's not just a case of individual brilliance buying us points when we attack. I'm more impressed with how we look defensively. We didn't get this sort of bounce back with Freddie and considering how much worse things got under Freddie I didn't expect the players to respond to another manager with no experience. I'm assuming the players are impressed with Arteta's knowledge and it's not just a case of trying to impress a new manager. We'll see how it goes and we still have a long way to go but I like what i see so far.


Didn't think this needed saying, but here we are.

Superb post, my dude :clap:
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby elkanofan » Thu Jan 02, 2020 9:43 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Oh shut the f**k up you numpty!!


Your getting hyped over one game and throwing insults again.

Yawn.

theHotHead wrote:New manager bounce my arse!! In each of the 3 games played we have looked better than the last, thats down to better coaching and a system better suited to the players we have.


So have Watford, Everton and even West Ham vs Bournemouth with Moyes.

Its called new manager bounce. Players have a fresh start and all up their game to hopefully get into the new managers system.

Duncan Ferguson with little to no tactical expertise expressed even by himself got Everton to beat Chelsea 3-1 just doing the basics. But that's the power of a new manager bounce for you.

Lets see where we are by the end of March. You have shown here and in the other thread why rival fans call many of our fans competely deluded because we get hyped over one victory and have no grounding to reality.


Define 'New Manager Bounce' because that term is being thrown around without much of an explanation. Hothead is right when he says it sounds like some sort of magical fairy dust.

For me, it means players are looking to impress the manager and we see more energy. That is certainly the case under Arteta but surely you can see a tactical shift and structure in place that wasn't there before?


First factor of new manager bounce is as you said. Players trying harder and new energy after the old negativity from before.

Second factor is fear of the unknown for the opposition. You spend all week analysing the opposition previous games to devise a gameplan on matchday. With opposition teams they have absolutely nothing on Arteta right now because he's managed 3 games so far in his entire life, unlike other new managers, opposition coaches can at least reference back to how the manager had setup in the past to help deal with combatting them.

This especially is a factor when you consider how shit we been for so long, then all of a sudden a new style of play comes in with newfound energy is as the spanish say 'complicado' for opposition managers to deal with. Hence the very real placebo effect known as 'new manager bounce'.

Under Emery, when he first arrived, we saw the enthusiasm to impress but none of the structure. That's why we'd concede and look so open even in the early days when we went on that run. We'd tend to lose the first half but win in the second after the manager has made a tactical shift and made subs.


In the beginning last season Emery had a clear structure, he didn't have all the players he wanted and we made a large number of changes in the summer so the high defensive line he tried caused a number of issues defensively, however results started coming week in week out as he gradually got players to buy into the system and even when things didn't work out in the beginning of matches he showed his adaptability to tweak or change things to get the win.

I liked this as under Wenger if you turn up early to matches at the grove and see how laxed we where in prematch warmups compared to a clear structure laud down by Emery's staff especially with our fullbacks and Bellerin. Very defined low cross routine and he showed he has the modern approach we have missed under stale Wenger.

Defensively there were two clear periods where we looked good, were things fell off with the unbeaten run ending in 2018 was down to injuries especially with Rob Holding vs United, he had created a great understanding with Sokratis before that the team ended up collapsing vs Southampton and later on 5-1 away to Liverpool in a game if we hadn't worked out already Litchsteiner cannot handle the EPL along with the fact i think everyone of his teammates hate him all i saw was them arguing with eachover.

After we smashed Chelsea 2-0, pressuring the life out of them this cost us Bellerin to injury, then after a very impressive 7 game run conceading just 1 goal, Ramsey got injured and that was it for Emery. We didn't buy who we needed in January despite Emery identifying the players they would of easily got us top 4 and we paid for it.

Individual brilliance would bail us out to score goals but in terms of defending we were always poor and it just got worse as the players enthusiasm and confidence dipped. The team weren't pressing with intensity, they didn't look compact or organised, we could barely string a pass together and most notable change compared to Wenger was the short passing and having a manager willing to tinker with tactics with early subs.


This describes us after Ramsey's injury away to Napoli but most clearly in the Sheffield United defeat/Palace draw where i knew something was wrong and change may be needed. Emery failed to buy the players we needed for his systems to work and while i agreed with him wanting Ozil gone he should of been more proactive in forcing him out. Buying his replacement, removing his squad number and telling him straight to f**k off. He failed.

His passive attempts to get rid of him was his downfall had a knock on effect with us not buying the squad needed to compete and we are clearly deficient in midfield hence all the chopping and changing tactics, few to none of which worked at all this season because our team isn't very good as a collective especially our midfield which is shocking.

This destroyed confidence and by the Southampton 2-2 debacle he already looked finished and a broken man.

Under Arteta, so far, we can see an organised pressing structure. It's not just one or two players, they all press as a unit and it's organised. The fullbacks get right on there man if it goes to the wing and they're right at the heels not allowing the player to turn. Same goes for the other midfielders and CB's. They're closing down space quickly and not allowing their opponent to turn and run at them. It's high energy stuff and we need to really improve our fitness to keep it going. But so far, so good. Even without the win, you could see the shift in the previous two games.

The backline looks way more organised, distances are better, players are busting a gut to cover space and not just leave our CB's exposed. That's enthusiasm but it takes organisation and training to look that way. AMN isn't just overlapping as a normal wingback, he's dropping infield more as an inverted wingback.
Ozil is dropping back more to help in the first phase transition linking up well with AMN and Pepe.


Its a light version of what Pep does. We don't have the players to press as high as City or the quality to score goals they way City do, however Its very clear and straightforward for the players to follow. With the new energy and positivity he's brought it its working now importantly to get us back with some confidence. Its better than the shower of shit with zero confidence before but its just 3 games. Like i said before, I'm happy with the style but I will wait to we reach mid March to see really how good Arteta is as a coach and take one game at a time.

Season is still over really in terms of doing anything significant, i have my doubts Arteta can do it in the Europa and I can take Arteta even guiding us to mid table top 8 and going hard again next year.

Just a little more sharpness and we'd have beaten Utd by 3 or 4.


I'm disappointed we didnt! United were a joke and there for the taking.

It's early days but most can see the tactical shift and it's not just a case of individual brilliance buying us points when we attack. I'm more impressed with how we look defensively. We didn't get this sort of bounce back with Freddie and considering how much worse things got under Freddie I didn't expect the players to respond to another manager with no experience. I'm assuming the players are impressed with Arteta's knowledge and it's not just a case of trying to impress a new manager. We'll see how it goes and we still have a long way to go but I like what i see so far.


Patience. From what I've seen Arteta is installing a core formation and philosophy which I'm fine with but its really just 3 games. Arteta can't do what Pep did and play the same way every week and get away with it since he has the best team. More than likely he must adapt. Then we will see how effective this all is.

Emery wasn't as bad as so many have made out. The issue was and is the club is a joke and run so badly, Emery wasn't the superhuman manager needed to bring us forward. We need Arteta to be a mysteron level for this to work.

If you don't know what a mysteron is your childhood sucked lol :)
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jan 07, 2020 10:48 am

Emery wasn't as bad as so many have made out???? You are right, he was actually worse!!

Seeing that Emery-like performance in the first half change to an Arteta-like performance in the second shows just how shit Emery was.

It also proves that the players are actually good enough to be competitive in the race for the final top 4 place.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Jan 07, 2020 11:00 am

theHotHead wrote:Emery wasn't as bad as so many have made out???? You are right, he was actually worse!!

Seeing that Emery-like performance in the first half change to an Arteta-like performance in the second shows just how shit Emery was.

It also proves that the players are actually good enough to be competitive in the race for the final top 4 place.


Hmmm not to sure about the first team against top 4.

They have the quality by the skin of their teeth to be a guaranteed top 4 and the back up players are pretty woeful bar Martinelli.

Saka, Willock and co aren't good enough to help us beat anyone of note, our squad is bare at the moment, we have some defenders to come back but no one in midfield or offence.

Who would come in for ................

Ozil?
Lacazette?
Pepe?
Xhaka?
Torreria?

We have no decent back up for any of them bar Guendouzi or Martinelli, two players covering for 5 players?

Look at the team we fielded for Leeds, our 1st team are going to be burnt out by end of season.
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