Arsenal's Financial Crisis

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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby swipe right » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:18 am

Arsenal: Where the accounting is more interesting than the football.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:45 am

Zedie wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I can't help feeling there are a few misuderstandings about what I'm trying to argue. I'll try to address them to the best of my ability.

Offloading the deadwood won't guarantee a better wage structure. The incoming players will base their wage demands on the wages we're currently paying, which likely means we'll have to pay over the odds a bit. Also, even if the wage cap won't prove a hindrance, we'll still have to make a profit.

Also, it's incredibly difficult to grow the revenue in the short term. Broadcast revenue is less lucrative for the Europa League, and commercial income is inflexible. The only way to make more money quickly is to crank up the ticket prices. For obvious reasons, that option is out of question.

Even though we're worth £2bn, the reality is that our self-sufficient model (which won't change according to the club) coupled with plummeting revenues and soaring wages mean we're in serious trouble.


Release ramsey - 120k
Sell ozil at a huge loss - 350k
Elneny - 60k?
Jenkinson - 50k?
Cech - 100k ?
Lichtenstiener 70k ?
Monreal 70k?

Replace these lot with some up and coming / a few established performers and we'll be fine.

We just need to endure the 2nd half of this season to do it.

All of our competitors have gone through this in some form over the last 3 years or more, from various starting points. We arent that far off but we really need a decent investment in the summer.



Xhaka's on 90k = please get rid.


Read Doucoure's on 25k
Read Gueye's on 45k
Read Mendy's on 50k
Read Ndidi's on 35k
Read Herrera's on 75k
Read Romeu's on 65k
Read Hojbjerg's on 50k
Read Wanyama's on 26k

All this from the PL alone
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Ach » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:57 am

Doucoure and Gueye have to come home

Bte Xhaka and Elneny
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby aniym » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:58 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:

Xhaka's on 90k = please get rid.


Read Doucoure's on 25k
Read Gueye's on 45k
Read Mendy's on 50k
Read Ndidi's on 35k
Read Herrera's on 75k
Read Romeu's on 65k
Read Hojbjerg's on 50k
Read Wanyama's on 26k

All this from the PL alone


Wanyama should be a target for us, we need backup for Torreira/Xhaka. He's not rated by Poch but he is available in Jan.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Dubs4Sam » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:29 am

I believe it is the off pitch stuff have hit our January transfer pot along with a longer term view of recruits;

Paying the remainder of the contracts for Wenger and his backroom staff who didn't stay on
The recruitment of the new transfer team (again to pay them out of their contracts with Barca / Dortmond) / going for Edu who only signed a four year contract with Brazilian FA
The well documented bad transfers in/out deals. No money for Sanchez/Ramsey loss on Perez ect we all know them.
Loss of C/L money

But overall I believe the new transfer team really believe the quality is not their in January and are planning for the summer - why pick up another low cost stop gap which we will spend twice as much on with wages over his contract and plow that 15 million towards real quality that fits into the long term vision.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Mon Jan 14, 2019 8:45 am

I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:38 am

PairyGrows wrote:I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.



At this point, I am certain you're just trying to paint a far gloomier picture than is the reality. All of this stuff you keep going on about is just baseless conjecture.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:46 am

Zedie wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I can't help feeling there are a few misuderstandings about what I'm trying to argue. I'll try to address them to the best of my ability.

Offloading the deadwood won't guarantee a better wage structure. The incoming players will base their wage demands on the wages we're currently paying, which likely means we'll have to pay over the odds a bit. Also, even if the wage cap won't prove a hindrance, we'll still have to make a profit.

Also, it's incredibly difficult to grow the revenue in the short term. Broadcast revenue is less lucrative for the Europa League, and commercial income is inflexible. The only way to make more money quickly is to crank up the ticket prices. For obvious reasons, that option is out of question.

Even though we're worth £2bn, the reality is that our self-sufficient model (which won't change according to the club) coupled with plummeting revenues and soaring wages mean we're in serious trouble.


Release ramsey - 120k
Sell ozil at a huge loss - 350k
Elneny - 60k?
Jenkinson - 50k?
Cech - 100k ?
Lichtenstiener 70k ?
Monreal 70k?

Replace these lot with some up and coming / a few established performers and we'll be fine.

We just need to endure the 2nd half of this season to do it.

All of our competitors have gone through this in some form over the last 3 years or more, from various starting points. We arent that far off but we really need a decent investment in the summer.



Add both Mkhi and Kola to that list. I think they're both on 190k-a-week. Xhaka and Mustafi too are on the 90K bracket, far, far too much for actually how good they are.

Suddenly, we're nearly getting rid of the entire first team, minus the additions of the summer + Auba, Laca and Bellerin. But, it's kinda what needs to happen at this point.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby gooney » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:15 am

Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.



At this point, I am certain you're just trying to paint a far gloomier picture than is the reality. All of this stuff you keep going on about is just baseless conjecture.

Not at all.....if you study big clubs who has not recovered like Milan and Liverpool until recently. You will see how hard it is to change a downhill trend. Problem we gonna have with the wage cap and moving the players on is we are in the market below the top teams now. you dont look at Arsenal and say yeah Im going there for trophies. So money is the best we have to offer. Now with buying players the elite teams dont want is 2 things.

1. Since the elite teams have scouted them and deemed not good enough, its unlikely they will take you to where you are. and with mid table clubs like everton and those type of teams being loaded they gonna compete with us for those players. To have them we have to match their wages and those players agents will play clubs against each other to get top wages. Now if that player fails, he is stuck with you with huge wages. So what that means is the elite teams get the most sure things. We gonna have to take the less sure players with huge wages. Now if they fail moving them is gonna be very hard. So we are entering an era of uncertainty. It doesnt mean we cant get out of this, but to do that we have to do spectacular job in the transfer market next few windows. We are talking about moving a club from one level to another. Dortmund did this few years ago. Liverpool has done this recently. Dortmund did by buying spectacular young talents. Liverpool did it with buying big and investing. We are not gonna invest. So it means we have to go the dortmund route
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Mon Jan 14, 2019 10:38 am

Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.



At this point, I am certain you're just trying to paint a far gloomier picture than is the reality. All of this stuff you keep going on about is just baseless conjecture.


Far from it. I'm basing my opinion on facts and reasonable estimates about the club's financial position, the club's statements about self-sufficiency as well as an understanding of basic economics. I've not pulled this out of thin air just to agitate my fellow Arsenal fans. This is a genuine concern of mine.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 11:15 am

PairyGrows wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.



At this point, I am certain you're just trying to paint a far gloomier picture than is the reality. All of this stuff you keep going on about is just baseless conjecture.


Far from it. I'm basing my opinion on facts and reasonable estimates about the club's financial position, the club's statements about self-sufficiency as well as an understanding of basic economics. I've not pulled this out of thin air just to agitate my fellow Arsenal fans. This is a genuine concern of mine.



All of your so called "reasonable estimates" are based on this statement: " Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit."

That is baseless conjecture. Nowhere has it been said or reported, via the club or anybody else, other than yourself. If that was the objective, there is no way recent wage rises of over 100% would have been sanctioned.


Stan Kroenke, for as much as an asshole as he is, is not an idiot. You don't secure loans worth billions of pounds if you're an idiot.
He knows that the real money he's going to make from Arsenal is going to be the re-selling of the club in the future. Not a few quid in wages (in the scheme of things). He knows he has to grow the brand, and he knows by doing so he'll make a killing on the re-sale. He's already doubled the value on his original investment.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Mon Jan 14, 2019 1:40 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:
Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I hate to beat a dead horse but our current wage bill has a profound effect on the demands of the players we're going to sign the summer. Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit.

Take Abdoulaye Doucoure for instance. If he's going to be a back-up midfielder, he's going to look at what Elneny makes (£55k per week), and he's going to want the same. Likewise, if he's coming in as a starter, he's going to look at what Xhaka and Torreira make (£90k and £70k per week, respectively) and he's going to want the same.

Our wage structure is horrible, and it will increase the costs even further. Rising costs are not what we can afford with our limited revenue growth. Our hands are tied.



At this point, I am certain you're just trying to paint a far gloomier picture than is the reality. All of this stuff you keep going on about is just baseless conjecture.


Far from it. I'm basing my opinion on facts and reasonable estimates about the club's financial position, the club's statements about self-sufficiency as well as an understanding of basic economics. I've not pulled this out of thin air just to agitate my fellow Arsenal fans. This is a genuine concern of mine.



All of your so called "reasonable estimates" are based on this statement: " Let's also not forget our objective is to cut the wage bill in order to turn in a profit."

That is baseless conjecture. Nowhere has it been said or reported, via the club or anybody else, other than yourself. If that was the objective, there is no way recent wage rises of over 100% would have been sanctioned.


Stan Kroenke, for as much as an asshole as he is, is not an idiot. You don't secure loans worth billions of pounds if you're an idiot.
He knows that the real money he's going to make from Arsenal is going to be the re-selling of the club in the future. Not a few quid in wages (in the scheme of things). He knows he has to grow the brand, and he knows by doing so he'll make a killing on the re-sale. He's already doubled the value on his original investment.


The conjecture, I'd argue, is not baseless at all. Arsenal's self-sufficient business model necessitates that the club run on profit year after year without external funding. When the turnover dips significantly, the club has to, in order to remain profitable, either find other sources of income or cut costs. The most immediate ways to increase income is to either sell players or raise ticket prices, first of which won't help much and second of which is out of the question. This means cutting costs is going to be necessary and, unfortunately, it won't be all that easy due to our wage structure. That is, it won't be easy without compromising the competitiveness on the pitch, which in turn risks postponing, or permanently preventing, our return of the Champions League and a healthier financial position.

Why, then, have the wages risen unchecked over the last few years? Well, the explanation may be simpler than we think: perhaps Stan Kroenke has been blissfully unaware of it. He's been very happy to see Arsenal running on profit for years and years, and I doubt he's known, let alone understood, the value we've been getting for the wages we've been paying. What is for certain, however, is that unless we return to profitable ways, he won't be able to sell an unprofitable business at a full price. Thus, I think Kroenke will do whatever it takes to make us profitable again. If it takes cutting costs in the short term, then so be it.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Sims » Mon Jan 14, 2019 5:35 pm

EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS

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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Luzh 22 » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:04 pm

Sims wrote:EVERYONE SHOULD READ THIS




Those figures are so horribly wrong it's not even funny. He/she has even used growth in turnover, and not growth in commercial revenue to calculate the supposed figures.

FYI the wage bill was at £195m in 2015... it's gone up a considerable amount since then.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Santi » Mon Jan 14, 2019 9:08 pm

That article was both awfully written and said nothing.


Thanks for wasting my time Raheem
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