How do we solve central midfield?

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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby KG3 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:06 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
Dejan wrote:It starts by selling wilshere and xhaka

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This, then buy one world class CDM a backup CDM and have Ramsey/Elneny rotate the B2B role
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Phil71 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 7:41 am

The problem as I see it is that we have too many players who don't suit the system (4-3-3) that Wenger likes to play. It seems in the summer he built it based on the back three system he adopted at the back end of last season (which he gave up on before Christmas)

Wenger has a glut of central defenders (Mustafi, Koscielney, Holding, Chambers, Mertersacker) and players who can play in that position as auxilliaries if required (Monreal, Elneny). That part of the squad is geared up for a back three system. Why would we need so many central defenders? Bellerin and Kolasinac (signed to play as a wing back) are not defenders.

In front of that we have a mish mash of midfielders who don't seem to have any defensive responsibilities - or at least are incapable of performing any. Ramsey, Wilshere, Xhaka, Ozil, Mkhitaryan, Maitland-Niles. Not a single one of them is a natural defensive midfielder. All of them are more inclined to attack.

Up front we have Lacazette - an out and out central striker, Aubameyang - left or centre, Welbeck - left or centre, and Iwobi - I can't work out where he's supposed to play. Preferably at another club in my opinion. No right side forward players for a 4-3-3. You could say that Mkhitaryan fits that role but I see him coming more from deep. More of a left winger.

The first team squad is completely unbalanced. What we end up with is players playing in positions that are not natural for them. Bellerin at left back, Kolasinac at right back, Ramsey, Wilshere or Xhaka asked to perform defensive roles, forward players not knowing where they should be at times, and six players all trying to attack through a crowded 30 yard channel in the middle of the pitch.

It's a mess.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Angelito » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:44 am

Tony_Adams wrote:The problem is cazorla, ramsey, wilshere and xhaka all want to play the same position. Elneny is the only DM we have and he is well below Arsenal quality.


We don't have a pure CM. That's the problem. Elneny is our most complete CM even if he's not spectacular.

Ramsey is a final-third player, not a pure CM. He's not renowned for his CM duties but for scoring those goals/his late runs. Wilshere is a pure CM, but he's beneath the level we should be aspiring at Arsenal. Cazorla is pretty much done. When fit, he's our best CM. Nobody knows what Xhaka's role is. My assumption is playing alongside a DM in a 3-5-3/4-3-3 in a slower league.

The fact that Arteta of old would walk into our midfield says everything there needs to be said.

4-3-3 is our best set-up as it is, with Elneny - Wilshere - Ramsey. Ramsey gets to make those final runs. Wilshere stays behind and plays a more of a B2B/DLP role, with Elneny as a DM - with enough leverage to dash forward when needed. Elneny is a better passer than both Ramsey and Wilshere either way.


Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:
Dejan wrote:It starts by selling wilshere and xhaka

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And adding whom?


Modric and Verratti


Modric is 32. Wouldn't be realistic.

Verratti, meanwhile, could be available at a cut-price as he's been an auxiliary figure at PSG for a while now. They also need to balance the books or risk letting go of Neymar or Mbappe.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:54 am

Angelito wrote:
Tony_Adams wrote:The problem is cazorla, ramsey, wilshere and xhaka all want to play the same position. Elneny is the only DM we have and he is well below Arsenal quality.


We don't have a pure CM. That's the problem. Elneny is our most complete CM even if he's not spectacular.

Ramsey is a final-third player, not a pure CM. He's not renowned for his CM duties but for scoring those goals/his late runs. Wilshere is a pure CM, but he's beneath the level we should be aspiring at Arsenal. Cazorla is pretty much done. When fit, he's our best CM. Nobody knows what Xhaka's role is. My assumption is playing alongside a DM in a 3-5-3/4-3-3 in a slower league.

The fact that Arteta of old would walk into our midfield says everything there needs to be said.

4-3-3 is our best set-up as it is, with Elneny - Wilshere - Ramsey. Ramsey gets to make those final runs. Wilshere stays behind and plays a more of a B2B/DLP role, with Elneny as a DM - with enough leverage to dash forward when needed. Elneny is a better passer than both Ramsey and Wilshere either way.


Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:
Dejan wrote:It starts by selling wilshere and xhaka

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And adding whom?


Modric and Verratti


Modric is 32. Wouldn't be realistic.

Verratti, meanwhile, could be available at a cut-price as he's been an auxiliary figure at PSG for a while now. They also need to balance the books or risk letting go of Neymar or Mbappe.


agree with most everything you've said. would love a more modern DM as opposed to elneny. I like elneny as a squad player but need an athletic DM that can cover ground with a motor for days. cuz they are going to need with wilshere losing possession in the midfield and ramsey's lack of tracking back.

and with that sort of DM, xhaka may be an option to play, since we probably won't be able to get rid of him. even though many are not a fan of iwobi, I think he can serve as a solid DM. he's mobile, athletic, with a solid technical side.....just needs to get more experience. he defends well and isn't afraid of contact.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby theHotHead » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:04 pm

the problem is with the manager and the tactics, its that simple. Its the reason why with the exact same players, we can beat Chelsea in a Cup Final, or beat Man City in a league game. when the players have the right set of tactics they can perform and perform brilliantly. Ok, consistency needs to be there and some players are more consistent than others. But if you can get players to play to their strengths and to play as a team you will be far more competitive.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:33 pm

Play 4-3-3 and buy 2 new midfielders
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:56 pm

Angelito wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:
Dejan wrote:It starts by selling wilshere and xhaka

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And adding whom?


Modric and Verratti


Modric is 32. Wouldn't be realistic.


Why not? Rumours of him leaving Madrid anyway

I'd go for Kondogbia and Modric/Verratti if possible with that Welsh git next to them in a 4-3-3. Think we'll have to go cheaper and shitter though.

Barcelona have 'the model' again, they have 3 in midfield but Iniesta/Coutinho play slightly ahead of the other two as an advanced CM while the other plays wide. Paulinho and Busquets are both defensive minded in their setup as a double-pivot base but the key is that BOTH are great passers of the ball as well and are swift but calm under pressure.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Phil71 » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:27 pm

There's not much sign of Modric slowing down, and Real Madrid would need a screw loose to let him go.

He suits their game superbly, and in my opinion is second only to Kevin De Bruyne in midfield. Even then it's a close call.

I'd take him in a heartbeat if he became available.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:32 pm

Mesüt wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
Arsene Nose wrote:
Dejan wrote:It starts by selling wilshere and xhaka

Verstuurd vanaf mijn SM-G920F met Tapatalk

And adding whom?


Modric and Verratti


Modric is 32. Wouldn't be realistic.


Why not? Rumours of him leaving Madrid anyway

I'd go for Kondogbia and Modric/Verratti if possible with that Welsh git next to them in a 4-3-3. Think we'll have to go cheaper and shitter though.

Barcelona have 'the model' again, they have 3 in midfield but Iniesta/Coutinho play slightly ahead of the other two as an advanced CM while the other plays wide. Paulinho and Busquets are both defensive minded in their setup as a double-pivot base but the key is that BOTH are great passers of the ball as well and are swift but calm under pressure.


barca do have the model, but in the premier league I don't think a busquets type player would thrive in a full season. plus, they can afford the double pivot with the likes of messi/Iniesta/suarez/rakitic in the mix. I think we need that athletic dcm that can cover ground and pass out of pressure with a bit of a chip on his shoulder
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Ach » Tue Apr 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Modric has been nowhere near his brilliant self this season. They are looking to replace him. Must get.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Arsene Nose » Tue Apr 17, 2018 2:19 pm

So here's a controversial question -- do we really need a DM? Or could we do with another deep lying midfielder alongside Xhaka in a double pivot? The problem with Wilshere and Ramsey is they like to get forward leaving Xhaka alone to cover a wide area. Elneny is void of creativity. But if we got someone like Max Meyer with instructions to stay deep with Xhaka might that do?
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:13 pm

personally, let xhaka hit the door, bring in a more fit, physical, athletic DM paired with a solid/fit B2B cm. a double pivot with the likes of xhaka plus whomever is not going to work with our style of play. too slow and lack of creativity. teams could sit, absorb and counter us like crazy. unless of course we get our defense straightened out.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Arsene Nose » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:28 pm

We are not selling Xhaka, mate. He's started every league game so clearly Wenger values him.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby Santi » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:36 pm

Just get Kondogbia, never been massively sold on him but he is that exact type, athletic, big bruiser who's comfortable on the ball and can pass.
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Re: How do we solve central midfield?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Apr 17, 2018 3:49 pm

Mesüt wrote:Just get Kondogbia, never been massively sold on him but he is that exact type, athletic, big bruiser who's comfortable on the ball and can pass.


bingo!
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