Shkodran Mustafi

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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby Zedie » Mon Jun 17, 2019 12:48 am

Santi wrote:Yeah and how did liverpool get there? By getting one of the best managers and selling two good smart purchases for 200m combined.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys. We could easily make profit from Torreira and Guendouzi, give it another year and they might fetch even bigger money, it’s how we have to go.

And yes I would still suggest Emery hasn’t done good enough, he had two chances to get us in the CL and we f***ked both in embarrassing fashion. Already gave you an example of good coaching and lack of spending still doing well (spurs), good coaching and smart buys leading to success (Liverpool), hard work and good management winning the PL taking advantage of others in a mess (Leicester) which all happened under Kroenke’s time here so why do we need to have a sugar daddy? seems you just want us to be Man City but you’ll join in when we claim they’re just buying trophies and it means nothing.

Then you’ve got the other side of it with Man Utd who have spunked hundreds of millions and even had a former world class manager, got them nowhere. Their desperation for immediate success has landed them back in 6th with their best player f***ing off back to Juventus. Difference is they can afford to make these mistakes and get away with it, if we follow suit we could end up absolutely f***ked of it doesn’t work out.

Tbh you just seem very riled up about it all and I’m not sure why, we’re not going to get immediate success with or without Kroenke...it just doesn’t work like that in one summer. Even Liverpool did it over multiple seasons with mane, salah, vvd and alisson. You’ll reply to this with something about giving emery time like Klopp had, which is fine, he can have time but I’m stil sure he won’t get us anywhere near back to back CL finals.



How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.

They wasted a shit load of investment but kept building with additional funds until their sales allowed them to not have to put in additional funds.

It's the start of their whole journey that people always seem to omit when praising liverpool and klopp because they're too focused on klopp and manager level.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys.


KRONKE COULD PUMP IN MONEY THAT HES ALLOWED TO UNDER THE RULES AND LIKE 90% OF EVERYONE ELSE DOES BUT HE CHOOSES NOT TO. HENCE WHY HE IS A f***ing BIG HURDLE TO OUR SUCCESS.

Man u buy names for whatever guy is in charge that season, which is what will happen every time we sack managers who dont get immediate results with certain players in the club.

Spurs have taken a decade to get where they are and some of those players are starting to hit the end. Others like kane will start suffering more from injuries because they get overplayed constantly.

Where are Leicester now?

What have spurs won and are you willing to wait 5-10 years to be semi relevant again like they have?

How do you expect to emulate liverpool when you dont expect kronke to provide the same initial additional cash injection that FSG provided to start the whole process?

All roads lead to kronke, you lot probably need another 2/3 years of new managers and 40m budgets and big player sales to realise it.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:26 am

Santi wrote:Mustafi should be able to be coached into a decent defender though, did he make this many blunders at Valencia or for Germany? He has the talents to be solid enough and we’ve seen it in periods but he has brain farts. Szczesny has largely cut them out with good coaching so why cant Musti?

Also Carrasco is not 30m better than Iwobi, there’s no point spending the money for marginal gains that will eventually hold us back further.

Btw Kroenke’s only problem is that he isn’t really interested, weve spent more than enough since he took over. It’s our lack of champions league holding us from getting top tier players as we can’t afford an additional 30m to get a 60m winger over a bargain bin one. He could put an occasional investment in but we’ve been hampered by wages til now as well.

I hate the toad because he doesn’t even turn up to watch us play (it’s roughly once a week and he’s a billionaire) when the Rams aren’t on, but people are over the top about him. The club has made so many changes since he came in attempt to improve, destroyed our transfer record and destroyed our wage budget multiple times, sacked our manager of 20+ years and spunked almost 100m for the new guy to improve the squad. He’s certainly not as ambitious as the likes of Roman or the owners from the top 2 but wouldn’t say he’s any worse than Spurs owners...they’ve just been smarter with their purchases and manager choice.

Good point re Shezza and Mustafi. I think Mustafi can be coached but I also think the key is who he plays next to. Find him a good and compatible partner and he will most certainly play better.

Also agree there is no point spunking money on a slight improvement (re Iwobi). Iwobi needs serious coaching. If Sterling can be coached to have phenomenal end product, Iwobi should be able to be coached to have decent end product at least.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:37 am

Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Mustafi showed he is a capable defender, he played well alongside Holding then Holding got injured and when Mustafi played with Sokratis he was a nightmare. Our unbeaten run began with Mustafi in the team.

Fine for this level. I argued countlessly that the team was capable of better and it was. But if we want to win the league we need better players. Nobody ever argued that these players could be world beaters, we argued they are capable of better than we have seen. The 2 are NOT the same.

And in one post your sarcastic post is destroyed.


A page earlier.....

theHotHead wrote:Lost cause mate, Mustafi is Accidentsville!! That much is clear. No point getting behind him, the guy is like a f***ing time bomb with dodgy electrics!! The only safe Mustafi is a non-playing Mustafi.


Is this a parody account because the level of contradiction is astounding.

Not at all, but you struggle grasping basic concepts so let me enlighten you.

1) Mustafi's defending was improved when partnered with Holding.

2) Mustafi's defending deteriorated with Kos and Sokratis

3) Mustafi made the most mistakes of any player in the team that directly led to goals

4) Emery has not been able to improve the team's defending at all.

5) For Mustafi to improve it is clear that he needs a compatible playing partner and the defensive unit needs to improve its performances.

Now, taking into account the above points which are all true, tell me how I have contradicted myself. Take your time.

If Emery is unable to fix our defensive issues its best we sell Mustafi immediately because he is a fookin clutz as it is. If Emery can find the right playing partner and actually get the defense drilled Mustafi's good traits make him a formidable defender.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:40 am

Santi wrote:Yeah and how did liverpool get there? By getting one of the best managers and selling two good smart purchases for 200m combined.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys. We could easily make profit from Torreira and Guendouzi, give it another year and they might fetch even bigger money, it’s how we have to go.

And yes I would still suggest Emery hasn’t done good enough, he had two chances to get us in the CL and we f***ked both in embarrassing fashion. Already gave you an example of good coaching and lack of spending still doing well (spurs), good coaching and smart buys leading to success (Liverpool), hard work and good management winning the PL taking advantage of others in a mess (Leicester) which all happened under Kroenke’s time here so why do we need to have a sugar daddy? seems you just want us to be Man City but you’ll join in when we claim they’re just buying trophies and it means nothing.

Then you’ve got the other side of it with Man Utd who have spunked hundreds of millions and even had a former world class manager, got them nowhere. Their desperation for immediate success has landed them back in 6th with their best player f***ing off back to Juventus. Difference is they can afford to make these mistakes and get away with it, if we follow suit we could end up absolutely f***ked of it doesn’t work out.

Tbh you just seem very riled up about it all and I’m not sure why, we’re not going to get immediate success with or without Kroenke...it just doesn’t work like that in one summer. Even Liverpool did it over multiple seasons with mane, salah, vvd and alisson. You’ll reply to this with something about giving emery time like Klopp had, which is fine, he can have time but I’m stil sure he won’t get us anywhere near back to back CL finals.

Exactly this.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby Santi » Mon Jun 17, 2019 10:50 am

Zedie wrote:
Santi wrote:Yeah and how did liverpool get there? By getting one of the best managers and selling two good smart purchases for 200m combined.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys. We could easily make profit from Torreira and Guendouzi, give it another year and they might fetch even bigger money, it’s how we have to go.

And yes I would still suggest Emery hasn’t done good enough, he had two chances to get us in the CL and we f***ked both in embarrassing fashion. Already gave you an example of good coaching and lack of spending still doing well (spurs), good coaching and smart buys leading to success (Liverpool), hard work and good management winning the PL taking advantage of others in a mess (Leicester) which all happened under Kroenke’s time here so why do we need to have a sugar daddy? seems you just want us to be Man City but you’ll join in when we claim they’re just buying trophies and it means nothing.

Then you’ve got the other side of it with Man Utd who have spunked hundreds of millions and even had a former world class manager, got them nowhere. Their desperation for immediate success has landed them back in 6th with their best player f***ing off back to Juventus. Difference is they can afford to make these mistakes and get away with it, if we follow suit we could end up absolutely f***ked of it doesn’t work out.

Tbh you just seem very riled up about it all and I’m not sure why, we’re not going to get immediate success with or without Kroenke...it just doesn’t work like that in one summer. Even Liverpool did it over multiple seasons with mane, salah, vvd and alisson. You’ll reply to this with something about giving emery time like Klopp had, which is fine, he can have time but I’m stil sure he won’t get us anywhere near back to back CL finals.



How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.

They wasted a shit load of investment but kept building with additional funds until their sales allowed them to not have to put in additional funds.

It's the start of their whole journey that people always seem to omit when praising liverpool and klopp because they're too focused on klopp and manager level.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys.


KRONKE COULD PUMP IN MONEY THAT HES ALLOWED TO UNDER THE RULES AND LIKE 90% OF EVERYONE ELSE DOES BUT HE CHOOSES NOT TO. HENCE WHY HE IS A f***ing BIG HURDLE TO OUR SUCCESS.

Man u buy names for whatever guy is in charge that season, which is what will happen every time we sack managers who dont get immediate results with certain players in the club.

Spurs have taken a decade to get where they are and some of those players are starting to hit the end. Others like kane will start suffering more from injuries because they get overplayed constantly.

Where are Leicester now?

What have spurs won and are you willing to wait 5-10 years to be semi relevant again like they have?

How do you expect to emulate liverpool when you dont expect kronke to provide the same initial additional cash injection that FSG provided to start the whole process?

All roads lead to kronke, you lot probably need another 2/3 years of new managers and 40m budgets and big player sales to realise it.


You really need to calm down, rarely seen you lose your head so much, did Kroenke touch you when you were young?

Under Kroenke (from 2011 when he took majority ownership) we’ve bought Ozil, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette and Torreira for a combined total of just over 200m. We’ve also spunked 70m on Mustafi and Xhaka while wasting 17m each on the likes of Welbeck and Perez (among others). We’ve blown our old wage structure to give Ozil 350k, Sanchez, Auba and Mkhi near or above 200k.

Spending funds under Kroenke hasn’t been a problem, it’s how and where we’ve spent it that has been. We also could’ve easily made money from the likes of Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey and Wilshere but we’ve let all 4 go on frees due to poor contract management (Gazidis n co). Where as Liverpool quickly cut their losses and convinced Suarez to stay, sign and make them a boatload of money which they then reinvested. But hey, Carroll (35m), Meireles (12m) and Suarez (23m) got Liverpool back to back CL finals and a victory in one amirite.

Must be all that money they made on Suarez that allowed them to buy Coutinho...for the big fee of 8m. And his insignificant sale for only £130m to Barca. No impact on where they are today that.

We are simply not going to blow 250m overnight without a huge sale to fund it.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby EliteKiller » Mon Jun 17, 2019 11:40 am

Zedie wrote:
How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.


You do write some complete and utter fiction ....

In 2011 Liverpool bought Carroll, Suarez, Meireles and a few more for 87m - they sold Torres, Mascherano, Benayoun and a few more for 91m

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

FSG took over Liverpool in 2010 - here are their net transfers by year since then -

2010 +5m
2011 +4m
2012 -43m
2013 -60m
2014 -25m
2015 -52m
2106 -34m
2017 +5m
2018 +21m
2019 -143m

So in the first two years FSH pumped in the square root off feck all ... all the transfer budget has come from Liverpool's trading profits not FSG. FSG loaned Liverpool 257m for ground and training ground improvements (at commercial rates) not one penny for transfers.

By comparison over the same period we've spent net 282m on transfers, just 40m less than the Dippers again all from our trading profits.

So just exactly when did FSG pump in all this imaginary wonga? What they never did? but, but, but that means you must be talking bollocks, could that possibly be true?
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Jun 17, 2019 2:35 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
Zedie wrote:
How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.


You do write some complete and utter fiction ....

In 2011 Liverpool bought Carroll, Suarez, Meireles and a few more for 87m - they sold Torres, Mascherano, Benayoun and a few more for 91m

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

FSG took over Liverpool in 2010 - here are their net transfers by year since then -

2010 +5m
2011 +4m
2012 -43m
2013 -60m
2014 -25m
2015 -52m
2106 -34m
2017 +5m
2018 +21m
2019 -143m

So in the first two years FSH pumped in the square root off feck all ... all the transfer budget has come from Liverpool's trading profits not FSG. FSG loaned Liverpool 257m for ground and training ground improvements (at commercial rates) not one penny for transfers.

By comparison over the same period we've spent net 282m on transfers, just 40m less than the Dippers again all from our trading profits.

So just exactly when did FSG pump in all this imaginary wonga? What they never did? but, but, but that means you must be talking bollocks, could that possibly be true?

Cue the "hangman theme" for Zedie.

But but but he is good at writing sarcastic posts :rofll:
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Mon Jun 17, 2019 5:02 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
Zedie wrote:
How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.


You do write some complete and utter fiction ....

In 2011 Liverpool bought Carroll, Suarez, Meireles and a few more for 87m - they sold Torres, Mascherano, Benayoun and a few more for 91m

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/premier-league/fuenfjahresvergleich/wettbewerb/GB1

FSG took over Liverpool in 2010 - here are their net transfers by year since then -

2010 +5m
2011 +4m
2012 -43m
2013 -60m
2014 -25m
2015 -52m
2106 -34m
2017 +5m
2018 +21m
2019 -143m

So in the first two years FSH pumped in the square root off feck all ... all the transfer budget has come from Liverpool's trading profits not FSG. FSG loaned Liverpool 257m for ground and training ground improvements (at commercial rates) not one penny for transfers.


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*NOTE this is just for the first five years after FSG took over

EliteKiller wrote:By comparison over the same period we've spent net 282m on transfers, just 40m less than the Dippers again all from our trading profits.

So just exactly when did FSG pump in all this imaginary wonga? What they never did? but, but, but that means you must be talking bollocks, could that possibly be true?


This statement applies more to us than it does Liverpool, as far as I know
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby BS221B » Tue Jun 18, 2019 8:51 pm



offload! offload! offload! even if its loan, just send him away.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby BrunelGooner » Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:30 pm

Unai Emery has decided after the Europa League final that time is up with Mustafi and he should be sold [@bbcsport_david via @5liveSport].

Ornstein confirming on 5live that Emery wants us to sell Mustafi.

Although it is good that he recognises Mustafi isn't up to the required standard, we will have a hard time shifting him due to his high wages and his reputation for being a walking calamity.

Does anyone else not find it telling that no journalist has linked him with a move away from the club? It's because we have no suitors.

This guy is going to be hard to get rid of.

Giving someone like Mustafi £90k per week should be enough grounds for certain posters on here to stop eulogising over Wenger. He was partially responsible for this liability and look at where we are now because of it.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby PairyGrows » Wed Jun 26, 2019 9:55 pm

We're not going to get rid of Mustafi unless we're willing to make a massive loss on him. Expect him to be a big part of our squad next season.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby Nuggets » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:01 pm

He could run his contract down and leave on a free......sadly
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby BrunelGooner » Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:31 am

PairyGrows wrote:We're not going to get rid of Mustafi unless we're willing to make a massive loss on him. Expect him to be a big part of our squad next season.


There is absolutely no chance we will even get the same fee we paid for him. I genuinely think we would be lucky to get £20m. As I said, wages will be the biggest issue though. No semi-rational club will pay him the extortionate wages we are.

Ornstein also said that we have been trying to get rid of him practically every transfer window since we signed him.

The fact that we've not found any prospective buyers in 3 years says it all really.

If we can't sell him, we should look to either loan him out or put him in the reserves. He adds no value on the pitch, so there is no point keeping him.

On top of that, he knows that he isn't wanted at the club. What's the point in having a player in the squad who knows both the club and fans don't want him? He has no motivation/incentive to perform.

What an absolute waste of resources.
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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Thu Jun 27, 2019 4:46 pm

Fenerbahce are interested in signing Arsenal centre-back Shkodran Mustafi, with their club sporting director Damien Comolli having made contact with the German’s agent about a move already. [Aksam] #afc


Source: @afcstuff
Ramsdale
(Turner/Hein)
White Saliba Gabriel Zinchenko
(Tomiyasu/Niles) (Timber/Holding) (Trusty/Kiwior) (Tierney/Tavares)
Odegaard(c) —- Rice
(Xhaka/Lokonga) —- (Partey/Elneny)
Havertz
(Jorginho/Vieira)
Saka Jesus Martinelli
(Pepe/Nelson) (Nketiah/Balogun) (Trossard/ESR)


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Re: Shkodran Mustafi (20)

Postby Zedie » Sun Jun 30, 2019 9:31 am

Santi wrote:
Zedie wrote:
Santi wrote:Yeah and how did liverpool get there? By getting one of the best managers and selling two good smart purchases for 200m combined.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys. We could easily make profit from Torreira and Guendouzi, give it another year and they might fetch even bigger money, it’s how we have to go.

And yes I would still suggest Emery hasn’t done good enough, he had two chances to get us in the CL and we f***ked both in embarrassing fashion. Already gave you an example of good coaching and lack of spending still doing well (spurs), good coaching and smart buys leading to success (Liverpool), hard work and good management winning the PL taking advantage of others in a mess (Leicester) which all happened under Kroenke’s time here so why do we need to have a sugar daddy? seems you just want us to be Man City but you’ll join in when we claim they’re just buying trophies and it means nothing.

Then you’ve got the other side of it with Man Utd who have spunked hundreds of millions and even had a former world class manager, got them nowhere. Their desperation for immediate success has landed them back in 6th with their best player f***ing off back to Juventus. Difference is they can afford to make these mistakes and get away with it, if we follow suit we could end up absolutely f***ked of it doesn’t work out.

Tbh you just seem very riled up about it all and I’m not sure why, we’re not going to get immediate success with or without Kroenke...it just doesn’t work like that in one summer. Even Liverpool did it over multiple seasons with mane, salah, vvd and alisson. You’ll reply to this with something about giving emery time like Klopp had, which is fine, he can have time but I’m stil sure he won’t get us anywhere near back to back CL finals.



How did they get there?

By their owners pumping in wong to buy Carroll, suarez and miereles in 2011, which eventually led to them selling carrol 15m and suarez 75m.

They struck gold with suarez and his resulting sale funds along with players like sterling being sold for 50m as a youth product gave them the boost that they needed to get the squad they have now.

They wasted a shit load of investment but kept building with additional funds until their sales allowed them to not have to put in additional funds.

It's the start of their whole journey that people always seem to omit when praising liverpool and klopp because they're too focused on klopp and manager level.

Only way we can spend 200m+ is by making profit on younger, smarter buys.


KRONKE COULD PUMP IN MONEY THAT HES ALLOWED TO UNDER THE RULES AND LIKE 90% OF EVERYONE ELSE DOES BUT HE CHOOSES NOT TO. HENCE WHY HE IS A f***ing BIG HURDLE TO OUR SUCCESS.

Man u buy names for whatever guy is in charge that season, which is what will happen every time we sack managers who dont get immediate results with certain players in the club.

Spurs have taken a decade to get where they are and some of those players are starting to hit the end. Others like kane will start suffering more from injuries because they get overplayed constantly.

Where are Leicester now?

What have spurs won and are you willing to wait 5-10 years to be semi relevant again like they have?

How do you expect to emulate liverpool when you dont expect kronke to provide the same initial additional cash injection that FSG provided to start the whole process?

All roads lead to kronke, you lot probably need another 2/3 years of new managers and 40m budgets and big player sales to realise it.


You really need to calm down, rarely seen you lose your head so much, did Kroenke touch you when you were young?

Under Kroenke (from 2011 when he took majority ownership) we’ve bought Ozil, Sanchez, Aubameyang, Lacazette and Torreira for a combined total of just over 200m. We’ve also spunked 70m on Mustafi and Xhaka while wasting 17m each on the likes of Welbeck and Perez (among others). We’ve blown our old wage structure to give Ozil 350k, Sanchez, Auba and Mkhi near or above 200k.

Spending funds under Kroenke hasn’t been a problem, it’s how and where we’ve spent it that has been. We also could’ve easily made money from the likes of Sanchez, Giroud, Ramsey and Wilshere but we’ve let all 4 go on frees due to poor contract management (Gazidis n co). Where as Liverpool quickly cut their losses and convinced Suarez to stay, sign and make them a boatload of money which they then reinvested. But hey, Carroll (35m), Meireles (12m) and Suarez (23m) got Liverpool back to back CL finals and a victory in one amirite.

Must be all that money they made on Suarez that allowed them to buy Coutinho...for the big fee of 8m. And his insignificant sale for only £130m to Barca. No impact on where they are today that.

We are simply not going to blow 250m overnight without a huge sale to fund it.


Replying in response to that other post in some other thread about not responding.

Kronke is able to put in x amount over what the club make yet he doesn't. Many teams do this regularly. We make so much money that we are able to have done what we have done over recent years but it's all within our self sustained funds.

Kronke decides to not spend his additional allotment because hes not interested.

We could make a big push with his direct investment quickly or we could take the liverpool model over the next 8 years to invest and hope little signings become big signings like coutinho etc.

What I dont understand is how people dont realise how the same people that are crying about the state of our squad, the lack of sales we can make and our position are fine with an 7-8 year model to get to where liverpool are now instead of our actual ability to spend private funds to get there much quicker.

You keep ignoring that in all your responses.
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Zedie
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