Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby KG3 » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:24 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Proud of Arteta for trying the 4-4-1-1.

At least now after a 3-0 win he can consider his options now he's tried most formations.

Now he has to pick one and develop it.

He's tried 3-4-3 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1

Now make one work.


Guarantee you he goes back to something with LW and Aubameyang plays wide, like you said 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 is the best option forward Lacazette can do the defensive work while Auba is ready for the counter.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:29 pm

What was the difference between Lacazette and ESR roles today?

It's the same 4-2-3-1 system. If ESR had started today instead of Lacazette then nobody would say this is a 4-4-2.


The amount of running, defensive work and linking play Laca has to do remains the same. But hopefully it means he has a striker ahead of him to play off instead of being so isolated.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:32 pm

KG3 wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Proud of Arteta for trying the 4-4-1-1.

At least now after a 3-0 win he can consider his options now he's tried most formations.

Now he has to pick one and develop it.

He's tried 3-4-3 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1

Now make one work.


Guarantee you he goes back to something with LW and Aubameyang plays wide, like you said 4-4-2 and 4-4-1-1 is the best option forward Lacazette can do the defensive work while Auba is ready for the counter.


I'm expecting it tbh.

Arteta is a bit of a control freak, I think the 4-4-2 is a little open (back and forth) for his liking.

But if you do it like Atletico, solid, organised two banks of 4, soak it up then ..... boom.... on the counter with 4 attackers wing to wing breaking, we saw some of that tonight, Pepe was having a field day because he wasn't getting doubled up on because the defenders have to man not one striker but two.

We'll see what Arteta does next game but he has to start settling now, we're almost half way throught the season.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:39 pm

Power n Glory wrote:What was the difference between Lacazette and ESR roles today?

It's the same 4-2-3-1 system. If ESR had started today instead of Lacazette then nobody would say this is a 4-4-2.


The amount of running, defensive work and linking play Laca has to do remains the same. But hopefully it means he has a striker ahead of him to play off instead of being so isolated.


Because ESR at times was running around in line with Nketiah and our wingers were in line with the 2 CM's when going back.

It was def 4-4-1-1 but yes if its a CAM playing the SS role then it can look very much like a 4-2-3-1.

One of the main differences is a CAM won't be in the box poaching when a SS will also Laca was def sitting ahead of midfield when in a 4-2-3-1 he'd of been flat with the WF's.

The main thing also is 4-4-1-1 is more compact, a 4-2-3-1 is a staggered formation.

We played a 4-2-3-1 against Leeds, today was def a flatter 4-4-1-1 with Laca slipping from up front to just in the pocket behind as the SS.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Thu Nov 26, 2020 8:51 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Proud of Arteta for trying the 4-4-1-1.

At least now after a 3-0 win he can consider his options now he's tried most formations.

Now he has to pick one and develop it.

He's tried 3-4-3 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1

Now make one work.

Mate we were poor in the first half and better in the second against a team who, lets face it, are 3 or 4 levels below the Prem. Anything should work against them
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:04 pm

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Proud of Arteta for trying the 4-4-1-1.

At least now after a 3-0 win he can consider his options now he's tried most formations.

Now he has to pick one and develop it.

He's tried 3-4-3 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1

Now make one work.

Mate we were poor in the first half and better in the second against a team who, lets face it, are 3 or 4 levels below the Prem. Anything should work against them


That's always going to be the case when your experimenting for the first time with your B-Team.

People have to be given a chance to get it right and they showed that with 3 2nd half goals, would it work in the Prem :dontknow: but Partey know's that system well from Atletico.

Also, I didn't say he should stick with 4-4-1-1 ............ I said now he's tried them all "he" needs to pick one and stick with it, so the team can get some consistencey and master it, I'm just glad he tried it.

My vote is 3-4-3 or 4-4-2.

I think it suits the players we have in the squad.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Alexis » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:04 pm

Nuggets wrote:Unai Emery - 57 points (all after 29 matches)
Mikel Arteta - 46 points (all after 29 games)
So how is this clown still here?


such a shit comparison.

emery took over from wengers trash who were still decent going forward. Arteta had to take over from ball to kolasinac and cut back predictable strategy + 3 billion shots on target for opposition.

Let's not forget emery hadn't fukin clue how to set teams up and had to keep changing it in the second half. You'd understand 2-3 times, but man was doing it for about 20 games in a row. at some point i started to think it was deliberate and of course lets not forget how both auba and laca were massively overperforming from the scraps of chances they got. It's all leveled out now, but emery was beyond lucky to get that many points.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:11 pm

Alexis wrote:
Nuggets wrote:Unai Emery - 57 points (all after 29 matches)
Mikel Arteta - 46 points (all after 29 games)
So how is this clown still here?


such a shit comparison.

emery took over from wengers trash who were still decent going forward. Arteta had to take over from ball to kolasinac and cut back predictable strategy + 3 billion shots on target for opposition.

Let's not forget emery hadn't fukin clue how to set teams up and had to keep changing it in the second half. You'd understand 2-3 times, but man was doing it for about 20 games in a row. at some point i started to think it was deliberate and of course lets not forget how both auba and laca were massively overperforming from the scraps of chances they got. It's all leveled out now, but emery was beyond lucky to get that many points.


Arteta has been beyond lucky to get quite a few points too, we’ve scraped results in games we could just easily have lost, you can’t make a case against one and not look at the other in the same way.

Arteta actually has put very few decent performances out, most of the games have been very narrow wins.

In short Arteta has been absolutely awful almost all the time since he arrived, we’re no languishing where we are in the table for no reason.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby starmandb » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:13 pm

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:Proud of Arteta for trying the 4-4-1-1.

At least now after a 3-0 win he can consider his options now he's tried most formations.

Now he has to pick one and develop it.

He's tried 3-4-3 / 4-3-3 / 4-2-3-1 / 4-4-1-1

Now make one work.

Mate we were poor in the first half and better in the second against a team who, lets face it, are 3 or 4 levels below the Prem. Anything should work against them

1 level
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Angelito » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:21 pm

Partey
Smith-Rowe - Saka
Pepe - Auba - Nelson


:think:
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Mustafi » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:34 pm

Angelito wrote:
Partey
Smith-Rowe - Saka
Pepe - Auba - Nelson


:think:

As soon as Martinelli is fit, put him there instead of one of Nelson and we have our strongest team imo.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Nov 26, 2020 9:44 pm

I knew he'd think the 4-4-1-1 was to open / end to end lol.

Can't really tell from this if he'll use it in the Prem or not?

He discusses it here @1:13

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Nov 26, 2020 10:52 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:What was the difference between Lacazette and ESR roles today?

It's the same 4-2-3-1 system. If ESR had started today instead of Lacazette then nobody would say this is a 4-4-2.


The amount of running, defensive work and linking play Laca has to do remains the same. But hopefully it means he has a striker ahead of him to play off instead of being so isolated.


Because ESR at times was running around in line with Nketiah and our wingers were in line with the 2 CM's when going back.

It was def 4-4-1-1 but yes if its a CAM playing the SS role then it can look very much like a 4-2-3-1.

One of the main differences is a CAM won't be in the box poaching when a SS will also Laca was def sitting ahead of midfield when in a 4-2-3-1 he'd of been flat with the WF's.

The main thing also is 4-4-1-1 is more compact, a 4-2-3-1 is a staggered formation.

We played a 4-2-3-1 against Leeds, today was def a flatter 4-4-1-1 with Laca slipping from up front to just in the pocket behind as the SS.


The difference between the way we set up today vs the Leeds set up were marginal. In fact, the last time we played Molde it was a 4-2-3-1 with Willock in pockets behind the striker but darting into the box to become a goal threat and in line with the striker. He's just swapped Willock for Laca and I suspect Arteta wanted Laca to do a similar role. Just depends on the type of player Arteta plays in that position. If it were Ozil he'd naturally drift to wide positions and find space around the box but not be a goal threat.

Fine margins between the formations really. It was too open because we had Willock and Xhaka in the CM's roles and both are passive and easily bypassed when defending. Place Eleneny and Partey in the same set up ad we'd have much more control.

As for our defensive shape, Arteta won't will always ask our wingers to pull back and defend. Same goes for Lacazette and that's the main issue with Laca. A lot is being asked of him and it won't get him any closer to scoring goals. But at lease it's two strikers in a central position so that's a positive at least.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Nov 27, 2020 1:11 am

Power n Glory wrote:The difference between the way we set up today vs the Leeds set up were marginal. In fact, the last time we played Molde it was a 4-2-3-1 with Willock in pockets behind the striker but darting into the box to become a goal threat and in line with the striker. He's just swapped Willock for Laca and I suspect Arteta wanted Laca to do a similar role. Just depends on the type of player Arteta plays in that position. If it were Ozil he'd naturally drift to wide positions and find space around the box but not be a goal threat.


That is wrong.

Against Molde we played 3-4-3.

Ach wrote:3 at the back v molde lol


I even showed you the still pictures ffs. :doh:

Willock played in a 2 with Ceballos, Xhaka was filling in, in the back 3, same way he did against Dundalk.

I'm not sure why some people do this to themselves?

In the end of the day you saying "the difference is marginal" well you could say that for every formation in football, there's 11 players and 10 of them move around, however I and most people can see the positions and the different effect that has on how the team is set up to play.
So, it might look marginal but the outcomes can be highly varied, especially when your trying to play the right players in their correct and most effective positions.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Dejan » Fri Nov 27, 2020 4:23 am

Alexis wrote:
Nuggets wrote:Unai Emery - 57 points (all after 29 matches)
Mikel Arteta - 46 points (all after 29 games)
So how is this clown still here?


such a shit comparison.

emery took over from wengers trash who were still decent going forward. Arteta had to take over from ball to kolasinac and cut back predictable strategy + 3 billion shots on target for opposition.

Let's not forget emery hadn't fukin clue how to set teams up and had to keep changing it in the second half. You'd understand 2-3 times, but man was doing it for about 20 games in a row. at some point i started to think it was deliberate and of course lets not forget how both auba and laca were massively overperforming from the scraps of chances they got. It's all leveled out now, but emery was beyond lucky to get that many points.
Arteta has had the better team.

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