Alexandre Lacazette (9)

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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby GoonerAlexis » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:20 pm

theHotHead wrote:No I don't agree. A winger usually crosses the ball and stays wide. So Steve Guppy and Chris Waddle were wingers thats what they mostly did. Of course they could cut in and shoot, a la Figo, Pires, Ginola and Waddle himself.

Sanchez is more like an inside forward than a winger, his starting point is wide but he mostly cuts in and comes narrow, he doesn't stay wide like the others listed, hence why in my opinion he is not a winger.

Henry for Monaco and Juventus was a winger. Walcott was played as a winger for us at first and later as an inside forward, he turned from being a provider to a goal scorer.

Yes, but even an Inside Forward isn't a pure striker though.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:56 pm

What's a striker in your opinion? Give me examples too please.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby GoonerAlexis » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:58 pm

theHotHead wrote:What's a striker in your opinion? Give me examples too please.

Benzema, Giroud, Lacazette, Lukaku, Morata, Suarez, Lewandowski......

They don't play as inside forwards.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby Zedie » Mon Nov 13, 2017 6:43 pm

GoonerAlexis wrote:
theHotHead wrote:What's a striker in your opinion? Give me examples too please.

Benzema, Giroud, Lacazette, Lukaku, Morata, Suarez, Lewandowski......

They don't play as inside forwards.


Suarez is a typical inside forward. I agree on the others for the most part with a few exceptions ie benzema.

Extreme examples of an actual striker played as a striker are inzaghi, van nistelrooy, lineker Romario mario Gomez, defoe, adebayor etc. If you find one of these on the wing, it's probably because they were forced there by competent defending.

A proper striker works around the penalty spot.

A proper inside forward operates anywhere from wing to striker position and tends to be able to beat people repeatedly. Mostly always going inside. If you find one of these on the wing it's because thats where they've found space or they're about to cut inside which is generally harder to track by a defending unit when in motion.

A traditional winger hugs the line and crosses into centre for traditional strikers or target men to shoot. If you find one of these in the box, it's because the defence is focusing on the other side and they've come to occupy the space on the blind side ie where the defence isn't looking at.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:23 pm

A strikers training is very different to that of a wingers or even a Forward.

A striker is drilled to take accurate shots more, when to make runs in the box, headers etc etc.

A strikers job is to concentrate on "Inside the box" craft, a Forward or a Winger is not.

Sanchez is a Wide player, whether you play him as a Forward or as an out an out winger is down to the formation.

Usually a high level winger will cover both areas hence why they look WC compared to bog standard wingers, Ronaldo, Messi ect have too much talent to just hug the touchline.

Just because a Winger is good enough to effectively be / act / contribute like a 2nd striker doesn't mean they are in fact a striker.

Sanchez isn't even a CF (Bergkamp, Del Peirro role) he is def a Wide player, just because you cut in or can shoot a ball does not make you a striker.

Giroud, Lacazette are our only true box strikers, Welbeck is sort of half / half, ST come Forward, mainly because he's not good enough to be a striker so he gets used as a Forward because he's mobile.

Podolski is a Forward.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:36 am

GA you listed typical centre forwards. Shearer, Les Ferdinand, Mark Bright, Lee Chapman, all old school traditional centre forwards.

Bergkamp wasn't a centre forward neither was Zola, they played the number 10 role typically behind the number 9. Forwards are strikers, striker is just the modern name for a forward. Sanchez is a striker but in old language he is an inside forward. He is absolutely not a winger because his role is not primarily to provide and he does not hug the touchline.

A striker plays anywhere along the forward line whereas a winger's starting position is much deeper. Typically deployed in a 4-4-2 the winger starts deeper than the 2 forwards/strikers.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby Cripps » Tue Nov 14, 2017 12:41 am

Internationals need to end for the sake of GW

The boredom on here during them knows no bounds
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby Nuggets » Tue Nov 14, 2017 8:50 am

Cripps wrote:Internationals need to end for the sake of GW

The boredom on here during them knows no bounds

:clap:
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Nov 14, 2017 3:57 pm

theHotHead wrote:GA you listed typical centre forwards. Shearer, Les Ferdinand, Mark Bright, Lee Chapman, all old school traditional centre forwards.

Bergkamp wasn't a centre forward neither was Zola, they played the number 10 role typically behind the number 9. Forwards are strikers, striker is just the modern name for a forward. Sanchez is a striker but in old language he is an inside forward. He is absolutely not a winger because his role is not primarily to provide and he does not hug the touchline.

A striker plays anywhere along the forward line whereas a winger's starting position is much deeper. Typically deployed in a 4-4-2 the winger starts deeper than the 2 forwards/strikers.


That's not right.

Tbf No10 is a shirt number, it does not define a role in a team, its just an indication, Wilshere is currently number 10 and he's played Deep Mid before.

Bergkamp played as a CF i.e a 2nd striker someone who played in the same position as a CAM like Ozil but instead of a Creative Attacking midfielder he was a 2nd striker, he was up front but behind the main striker.

Also a striker is not "anyone" who plays across the front line, that is a Forward, a striker is someone who is a box player, primarily responsible for scoring and being in the box.

E.g at Inter Milan Pandev and Eto played as Forwards, Milito was the striker.

In our system of 2-1 up front, because of the way we play those are positions behind the striker left and right would be considered Wing Forward positions.

Essentially that is what Sanchez is a Wing Forward, he's certainly not a box striker.

Note that all these positions are completely dependent on the formation and more importantly the role the manager makes you play, that's how you explain how players like Moses and Ox went from wide midfielders to Wing backs.

However if we're going to describe Sanchez's main position as per the type of player he is naturally ......... Wing Forward.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby ronniec » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:22 pm

My generation... Rummenigge, Voller, Klinsmann, Riedle, Bierhoff, Klose, were all "strikers".
They spent 99% of their time (attacking) in the box, scored 99% of their goals in the box.
The role was clear and precise.

Nowadays, more and more hybrid players and formations... especially the false 9.
Attacking players need to play multiple positions and require to have good techniques, movement and interchanging to make things complicated, and difficult to defend.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Nov 14, 2017 4:55 pm

Very true.

The Del Piero / Bergkamp role of CF in the No10 position has all but gone the way of the Dodo seeing as two up front is rarely played these days.

The role itself came about from the days of 4-4-2 and managers started to realise they didn't need two classic box strikers just hanging up front when at least one of them could come a little deeper and help transition midfield to attack while still be up high enough to get in the box when needed.

So a lot of them became 4-4-1-1
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby ronniec » Tue Nov 14, 2017 6:49 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:Very true.

The Del Piero / Bergkamp role of CF in the No10 position has all but gone the way of the Dodo seeing as two up front is rarely played these days.

The role itself came about from the days of 4-4-2 and managers started to realise they didn't need two classic box strikers just hanging up front when at least one of them could come a little deeper and help transition midfield to attack while still be up high enough to get in the box when needed.

So a lot of them became 4-4-1-1


Very strange that so many teams were/are using 4-2-3-1 but less and less players have good speed and skills to execute a decent cross from wide area.
So many wide players like to cut in and shoot instead.

No more traditional wingers/wide players.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby GoonerAlexis » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:24 pm

TWO GOALS FOR LACAZETTE AGAINST GERMANY!
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Nov 14, 2017 9:45 pm

Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.
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Re: Alexandre Lacazette (9)

Postby ronniec » Wed Nov 15, 2017 12:16 am

theHotHead wrote:Think you will find the term forward is older than a striker and the 2 are used interchangeably by people. I just Googled it and thats what I found, only one site suggested the 2 roles were different.

A forward is a striker and vice versa.


Striker = forward
Winger = forward
Is a Winger a striker??
Hell no.
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