Major Refereeing Decisions

Arsenal news and interviews
Discuss anything Arsenal related, players, tactics etc.

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby CaptGooner » Fri May 13, 2022 7:53 pm

Zenith wrote:I don't buy the corruption angle, but for years and years the media (rightly so, to an extent) pushed the narrative that Arsenal teams are 'naive' and 'soft', particularly physically. That has changed in the last year or two: Arsenal have become a taller, more combative team, and have become significantly more dominant in both ground and aerial duels.

There's also an increase in cynicism and gamesmanship to Arsenal's play. Again, no obscene amount for a Premier League team, but it's that drastic change in style that challenges perception, and it influences the outcome of the decisions that are being made.

Modern Arsenal teams aren't supposed to have 'hard' or 'cynical' traits, and so there's a tendency for 50-50 calls, or 60-40 calls, to not go Arsenal's way. It's a classic case of Semmelweis effect. It'll pass, but only if we stick to those same principles for long enough and re-establish ourselves as a top-4 side.

Spot on. When the penalty was given it brought back flashbacks to the Wenger years when it seemed every call went against us in big games. It’s definitely gotten better though the past couple years.
User avatar
CaptGooner
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1278
Joined: Mon Jul 01, 2013 3:51 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 14, 2022 8:32 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:11 minutes in at 0-0

Like I said , we should have been playing against 10 men with 79 minutes left at 0-0.
Ref (and VAR who was Mike Dean by the way) 100% dictated the result.



There are no rational explanations as to why Son was not sent off.
There is no way an Arsenal player would have got away with that.

As usual we have 'Arsenal; fans' here delighted that we lost and loving bias refs against us.


Not at all.

We just focus on the fact that they scored 3 and we managed none, no referee decisions are going to help us attack properly, Saka was poor and the difference in level between him and a WC player in Son was on full display, a level difference I've had to spoon feed and educate you on the difference of what a "good" player and WC looks like as you seem to not know, I hope you learned something.

In the end of the day the penalty was soft, but again, that doesn't mean it won't be given, it means its a 50/50 chance it'll be given and Son did a good job of selling it and Cedric looked cynical.

Holding however has no defence whatsoever, he lost his head trying to mark a WC player, its that simple, there was no need whatsoever for rough housing Son half way up the bloody pitch its ridiculous.

Arteta should of seen Holding was in trouble after the yellow card and hauled him off, problem solved.


Not sure why you felt the need to deflect on behalf of Son and the ref.

Before Holdings red , Son should have been sent off for an elbow.
It’s that simple.
What Holding did later was irrelevant to that decision. Son should not even have been on the field for Holding to foul later.
We should have been playing vs 10 men from 11 minutes on - at 0-0.

In other words the ref dictated the winner of the game

The fact the ref gave one of the softest penalties you will ever see as well a few minutes later was no surprise at all. Once he has cheated so blatantly to allow Son to stay in the pitch, we had no chance.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 21495
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby StockGooner » Sat May 14, 2022 10:43 am

Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it
User avatar
StockGooner
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:56 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby Goonerred » Sat May 14, 2022 10:48 am

StockGooner wrote:Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it

People are holding Arteta partly responsible because Holding was outrageous and he should have been replaced after his yellow. He was lucky not to be on three or four yellows by the time he got his first. Early on he booted Son in the ribs after he tackled him and Son had gone to ground, no yellow for that, I thought the ref was quite lenient with him early on.
Goonerred
Predictions League 2021-22 Winner
Predictions League 2021-22 Winner
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby alexafc12 » Sat May 14, 2022 10:59 am

I've said for a while we need to be smarter.

We're very naive in big games. Holding has to roll around and hold his face after the Son incident.

Arteta had to recognise Holding was a risk and as soon as he got the first yellow make the change. He was walking on thin ice and the referee was always looking for a reason to send him off.

The penalty decision ... Well what can you say.
alexafc12
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12383
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 am

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby alexafc12 » Sat May 14, 2022 11:01 am

I remember during the Jose era, him telling the Spurs lads ... We have to be c***s.

Arteta needs to deliver the same message. Rather than winging about it after games we need to start playing the game.
alexafc12
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12383
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 am

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 14, 2022 11:17 am

StockGooner wrote:Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it


Sure but then if we want to go through all the reasons why we lost we could talk for days.

Ultimately though what I am saying is correct.
We should have been against 10 men with 79 minutes to go at 0-0.
It would have been a totally different game but for the ref. There is no explanation as to why Son stayed on the pitch. He didn’t even get a yellow for a far worse elbow than Holding gave him. We have VAR now too so that incident could not possibly have been missed.

Holding WON the battle with Son - he wound him up and got him to elbow him in the face - at that point the ref has to send Son off and Holding has done exactly what he looked like he set out to do. However, the ref decided not to apply the laws of the game in order to favour Spurs.

Sure Holding should have been smart enough then to know the ref was cheating and allowed Son to have the ball with no pressure - i.e. put our defending at risk due to a bias ref in order not to get sent off.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 21495
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 14, 2022 11:37 am

alexafc12 wrote:I remember during the Jose era, him telling the Spurs lads ... We have to be c***s.

Arteta needs to deliver the same message. Rather than winging about it after games we need to start playing the game.


We did play the game - Holding got under Son's skin and provoked him to react with a red card offence.
The ref decided on the day that only Arsenal would be punished for such infractions.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 21495
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby StockGooner » Sat May 14, 2022 1:22 pm

Goonerred wrote:
StockGooner wrote:Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it

People are holding Arteta partly responsible because Holding was outrageous and he should have been replaced after his yellow. He was lucky not to be on three or four yellows by the time he got his first. Early on he booted Son in the ribs after he tackled him and Son had gone to ground, no yellow for that, I thought the ref was quite lenient with him early on.


Of course he's partly responsible. I'd say for most losses he is, as are the players.

But I don't blame him for how Holding was during the game. If he had replaced him, it would have been for Tavares who has been called into question more than once, or a part fit White, who I wouldn't fancy against Son.

In fairness, when Jay says he Son shouldn't have been on the field, he is correct BUT that doesn't excuse Holding for his actions at all, and I lay a lot of blame for Thursday on him, more than on Arteta and more than the ref.
User avatar
StockGooner
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1513
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 3:56 pm
Location: Stockport, UK

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby Goonerred » Sat May 14, 2022 1:34 pm

StockGooner wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
StockGooner wrote:Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it

People are holding Arteta partly responsible because Holding was outrageous and he should have been replaced after his yellow. He was lucky not to be on three or four yellows by the time he got his first. Early on he booted Son in the ribs after he tackled him and Son had gone to ground, no yellow for that, I thought the ref was quite lenient with him early on.


Of course he's partly responsible. I'd say for most losses he is, as are the players.

But I don't blame him for how Holding was during the game. If he had replaced him, it would have been for Tavares who has been called into question more than once, or a part fit White, who I wouldn't fancy against Son.

In fairness, when Jay says he Son shouldn't have been on the field, he is correct BUT that doesn't excuse Holding for his actions at all, and I lay a lot of blame for Thursday on him, more than on Arteta and more than the ref.

Arteta should have pulled him though, he was like a demented flea.
Goonerred
Predictions League 2021-22 Winner
Predictions League 2021-22 Winner
 
Posts: 3405
Joined: Wed Apr 21, 2021 5:26 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby Nuggets » Sat May 14, 2022 1:37 pm

Goonerred wrote:
StockGooner wrote:
Goonerred wrote:
StockGooner wrote:Problem here Jay is that you seem to be holding only the referee accountable for this loss

You've not really commented on Holding himself. You're saying Holding's behaviour is irrelevant, but Holding is responsible for his own behaviour. He can't control the referee and the actions he takes whether they are right or wrongs o he has to get on regardless. What he can do is control himself and his red card is solely on him. I disagree with others that his red is somehow Arteta's fault, he's a seasoned pro and to block a man is one thing, but the elbow was something else

I admire the positivity around the team, I really do, but here it looks like you're kind of blaming just one man, the referee.

And we can talk about softness of a penalty which it was, but at the end of the day Cedric gave the referee the opportunity to give it

People are holding Arteta partly responsible because Holding was outrageous and he should have been replaced after his yellow. He was lucky not to be on three or four yellows by the time he got his first. Early on he booted Son in the ribs after he tackled him and Son had gone to ground, no yellow for that, I thought the ref was quite lenient with him early on.


Of course he's partly responsible. I'd say for most losses he is, as are the players.

But I don't blame him for how Holding was during the game. If he had replaced him, it would have been for Tavares who has been called into question more than once, or a part fit White, who I wouldn't fancy against Son.

In fairness, when Jay says he Son shouldn't have been on the field, he is correct BUT that doesn't excuse Holding for his actions at all, and I lay a lot of blame for Thursday on him, more than on Arteta and more than the ref.

Arteta should have pulled him though, he was like a demented flea.

A decent manager who have seen the dangers and pulled him off. But we ain't got a decent manager.
Image
User avatar
Nuggets
Predictions League 2016-17 Winner
Predictions League 2016-17 Winner
 
Posts: 22121
Joined: Tue Mar 11, 2014 8:16 pm
Location: Sunny Turkey, now.

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby alexafc12 » Sat May 14, 2022 2:08 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:I remember during the Jose era, him telling the Spurs lads ... We have to be c***s.

Arteta needs to deliver the same message. Rather than winging about it after games we need to start playing the game.


We did play the game - Holding got under Son's skin and provoked him to react with a red card offence.
The ref decided on the day that only Arsenal would be punished for such infractions.


He has to make a meal of it. Roll around holding his face so the ref has to stop play. Manager needs to be arms in the air yelling at the ref. Players need to be screaming elbow elbow. They have no choice but to call for VAR in that instance.
alexafc12
Herbert Chapman
Herbert Chapman
 
Posts: 12383
Joined: Wed Jul 11, 2012 12:54 am

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby swipe right » Sat May 14, 2022 3:11 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:I remember during the Jose era, him telling the Spurs lads ... We have to be c***s.

Arteta needs to deliver the same message. Rather than winging about it after games we need to start playing the game.


We did play the game - Holding got under Son's skin and provoked him to react with a red card offence.
The ref decided on the day that only Arsenal would be punished for such infractions.

Yet you call the PL the best league in the world? Sounds like it’s a pretty shit league with refs openly bias against certain teams.
swipe right
David Rocastle
David Rocastle
 
Posts: 5444
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 14, 2022 3:28 pm

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
alexafc12 wrote:I remember during the Jose era, him telling the Spurs lads ... We have to be c***s.

Arteta needs to deliver the same message. Rather than winging about it after games we need to start playing the game.


We did play the game - Holding got under Son's skin and provoked him to react with a red card offence.
The ref decided on the day that only Arsenal would be punished for such infractions.

Yet you call the PL the best league in the world? Sounds like it’s a pretty shit league with refs openly bias against certain teams.


Weird comment. Totally unrelated
Assume you are just trying to troll.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 21495
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Major Refereeing Decisions

Postby jayramfootball » Sat May 14, 2022 11:25 pm

Paul Tierney was on VAR duties today for the FA Cup final.
Nudge in the back of a Chelsea player - worse than the penalty he gave against us because the attacker was through on goal. No penalty or even a foul. Tells you all you need to know.
User avatar
jayramfootball
Member of the Year 2021
Member of the Year 2021
 
Posts: 21495
Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2012 8:58 pm

PreviousNext

Return to Arsenal Talk

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests