Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby VCC » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:13 pm

jayramfootball wrote:lol.
Way too much effort being put into rubbishing our wins in the CS.
It’s a friendly played by two teams who win something. Being in it is great.
Winning it just means you beat a good team.

No need to whine about winning it, lol

Like you said two teams that win something.
But we didn't did we
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby VCC » Sat Nov 18, 2023 11:19 pm

MathyGooner wrote:
Salibatelli wrote:Lol yes find Keown hard to listen to tbh.

Also last caller makes a good point, that I’ve made before, this is an issue in football where everyone criticises refs, doesn’t happen in other sports, at the same time the players and managers don’t take responsibility for their failures and the main reason they drop points, it’s gets swept under the carpet.

If a player misses an open goal he doesn’t have to come out and explain himself and doesn’t get talked about for days and weeks on end.

There’s a lack of respect for refs in football.


Doesn’t happen in other sports because they rarely make the kind of clangers that EPL refs make routinely. Note EPL refs, since the degree of f**k ups in Europe are generally much lower. And most European refs are part-time!

World Cup rugby just had a f**k show of the final where decisions were made by VAR to disallow points that were outside of their mandate.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:12 am

MathyGooner wrote:
Doesn’t happen in other sports because they rarely make the kind of clangers that EPL refs make routinely. Note EPL refs, since the degree of f**k ups in Europe are generally much lower. And most European refs are part-time!


Maybe but I think that’s perception as well (there was a bad decision in a World Cup semi in Rugby I think and they didn’t make a big deal about it, if that happened in football you’d never hear the end of it), there’s a lot more football on telly so it gets pointed out more, plus a lot of the things fans complain about aren’t wrong decisions, it’s biastness from fans wanting decisions that shouldn’t go there way anyway, seen this countless times.

I’m not sure they are lower in Europe, it’s just that we don’t want as much European football, if you we did we’d probably see plenty more as Simon Jordan pointed out on Talksport.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Nov 19, 2023 12:16 am

VCC wrote:World Cup rugby just had a f**k show of the final where decisions were made by VAR to disallow points that were outside of their mandate.


Exactly, a much much bigger game than the game against Newcastle, but very little fuss or furore over it, that’s exactly what I mean.

Refs are respected, sometimes they make errors but players and managers don’t constantly question them, football has become a joke in that respect.

IMO it’s more about teams being unable to deliver results of their own accord needing someone else to blame, like I said with the great Wenger teams (successful ones) it was rarely an issue, we were able to perform well enough to deliver and not need to blame refs on the whole.

It’s the same with City, they get bad decisions but don’t make a big deal about them because they know they are good enough to win anyway.

I don’t like this losers mentality we’ve developed where we have to kale refs rather than turn up and perform well enough to get the result regardless of refs.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby VCC » Sun Nov 19, 2023 4:36 am

Salibatelli wrote:
VCC wrote:World Cup rugby just had a f**k show of the final where decisions were made by VAR to disallow points that were outside of their mandate.


Exactly, a much much bigger game than the game against Newcastle, but very little fuss or furore over it, that’s exactly what I mean.

Refs are respected, sometimes they make errors but players and managers don’t constantly question them, football has become a joke in that respect.

IMO it’s more about teams being unable to deliver results of their own accord needing someone else to blame, like I said with the great Wenger teams (successful ones) it was rarely an issue, we were able to perform well enough to deliver and not need to blame refs on the whole.

It’s the same with City, they get bad decisions but don’t make a big deal about them because they know they are good enough to win anyway.

I don’t like this losers mentality we’ve developed where we have to kale refs rather than turn up and perform well enough to get the result regardless of refs.

I keep saying but it fails to register to the victims.
" winners make it happen,losers let it happen"
The champions of the world find a way regardless.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sun Nov 19, 2023 5:12 am

Klopp got a two match ban + fine when he was charged, Arteta will probably get the same.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Nov 19, 2023 8:31 am

VCC wrote:I keep saying but it fails to register to the victims.
" winners make it happen,losers let it happen"
The champions of the world find a way regardless.


Completely agree, that’s exactly the case.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby MathyGooner » Sun Nov 19, 2023 9:57 am

I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in other sports at all just the frequency is lower. You’re not seeing it virtually every week.

I think personally it’s become a more significant irritation point because they have so much evidence and time to decide now with VAR that 90% of the bad calls I genuinely can’t get my head around. That contrasts to the past where refs had to do it all themselves - I understood back then and gave allowance - but now I just find some of the decisions unacceptable because it’s no longer a defence that they didn’t see it or they saw it at a funny angle.

That’s doubly true if you look outside of just Arsenal. Some of the decisions Wolves have had go against them this season are mental. Consider it like any other job, if you were performing this badly you’d be in trouble.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:44 am

MathyGooner wrote:I’m not saying it doesn’t happen in other sports at all just the frequency is lower. You’re not seeing it virtually every week.

I think personally it’s become a more significant irritation point because they have so much evidence and time to decide now with VAR that 90% of the bad calls I genuinely can’t get my head around. That contrasts to the past where refs had to do it all themselves - I understood back then and gave allowance - but now I just find some of the decisions unacceptable because it’s no longer a defence that they didn’t see it or they saw it at a funny angle.

That’s doubly true if you look outside of just Arsenal. Some of the decisions Wolves have had go against them this season are mental. Consider it like any other job, if you were performing this badly you’d be in trouble.


That’s because it doesn’t get highlighted in the same way in other sports, plus there’s less on tv.

There are some bad calls, but nowhere near as many as fans think, the Newcastle goal for example was subjective so I wouldn’t call that a bad call.

VAR is governed by certain rules, rules agreed by the clubs, decisions must follow a protocol and must be clear and obvious errors, there’s no doubt there are some errors but based on the rules and the laws most of them are correct.

The rules are also too complex which creates issues and makes decisions much trickier.

Football isn’t like any other job or players missing sitters would be warned and then sacked if they kept doing it , likewise managers making errors wouldn’t last more than a few matches.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Sun Nov 19, 2023 1:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby themessiah » Sun Nov 19, 2023 11:56 am

Tbf Wenger was knocked out the round of 16 for 7 seasons in a row, all this fanbase ever did was hide behind a stadium move. Nonsense excuse. Tbf all Emery did was improve the home form. We were still getting battered away most games. And he threw top four away for a trophy. We had to win 1 in 7 towards the end and he did not win any. Palace home was horror awful stuff . Then went and lost in Baku. Ripped apart by Chelsea . Start or the Season after was a car crash for him
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Nov 20, 2023 12:42 am

Dein on Arteta rant:

Speaking on Talksport Dein said:

'In 101 minutes of football we only had one shot at goal, so you can't really say that the team deserved to win. It is what it is, There is a process in place for how they deal with these things and I just think it was a little bit unnecessary. I don't think it did the image of the club any good.'

When asked about if this would have occured during his time at the club, between 1983 and 2007, Dein said: 'It wouldn't have happened.

'But we're in an emotional game and these things do happen, I think it's unfortunate, and you live and learn.'

The 80-year-old also revealed he would have 'probably' disciplined Arteta but also said he would not have wanted to 'undermine the manager either.'

He said: 'The manager in the heat of the moment, that's what he believed in. I was at Newcastle that game, he felt aggrieved that he felt the decisions go against him.’


Lots of pan back against Arteta and the club, don’t think it did us any favours I agree with Dein.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Mon Nov 20, 2023 6:10 am

He is still a novice and it shows.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Nov 20, 2023 7:33 am

Great to see the subject still doing the rounds.
The cheating by officials needs more and more light.
Hopefully Arteta’s courage will inspire other managers not to be afraid.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Mon Nov 20, 2023 9:39 am

I said it at the time, the rant was Arteta's frustration at our performance, he used it to cover up our limitations. It was a childish petulant outburst that frankly made him look silly and has inadvertently put more pressure on us.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Salibatelli » Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:12 am

jayramfootball wrote:Great to see the subject still doing the rounds.
The cheating by officials needs more and more light.
Hopefully Arteta’s courage will inspire other managers not to be afraid.


lol it’s literally doing the opposite, so much criticism of the club and manager, Arteta also charged and now we’ve made ourselves unpopular with refs as well, talk about awful judgment.

We’ve ended up with egg on our face with even Dein saying it’s not a good look.
Last edited by Salibatelli on Mon Nov 20, 2023 10:25 am, edited 1 time in total.
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