Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 8:02 am

Dejan wrote:
TedLasso wrote:What about the last 38 games? Thats a full prem season, why not use that as a sample?

Oh it’s because it includes losses you dont want to count. Weird.


Thats the Jay Classic.


Why would you include the horror 2 months in assessing how we've done since that time???
The whole point of choosing the last 31 games.. Or 24 as it was at the end of the season was to highlight how we have recovered and got ourselves on good form.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Ach » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:05 am

What's the explanation for being shit this season?

Those 2 months were so last season.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby swipe right » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:25 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Dejan wrote:
TedLasso wrote:What about the last 38 games? Thats a full prem season, why not use that as a sample?

Oh it’s because it includes losses you dont want to count. Weird.


Thats the Jay Classic.


Why would you include the horror 2 months in assessing how we've done since that time???
The whole point of choosing the last 31 games.. Or 24 as it was at the end of the season was to highlight how we have recovered and got ourselves on good form.

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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Özim » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:26 am

I can see a pattern here.

Last season he looked at results after our horror show.

This season he starts a thread about results after losing our first 3 games.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 9:38 am

Özim wrote:I can see a pattern here.

Last season he looked at results after our horror show.

This season he starts a thread about results after losing our first 3 games.


The only pattern I am calling out is the form we have had since our 2 month slump.
It's our last 31 games and we are doing well.

All the upset (don't know why) responses in the world are not going to change the fact that our record for a sustained period is not bad at all and far from being the doomsday scenario you and some others are painting.

By the way the last 31 games includes all 7 games this season.
Next week it will be the last 32 games, the week after the last 33. All from the point where we recovered from a 2 month disaster to show clear improvement and reasons for positivity.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby Özim » Wed Oct 13, 2021 10:38 am

The record you mention isn’t relevant because form across two seasons is unrelated, as someone said the players are different, the teams different.

It also ignores important defeats in other competitions and of course the fact that we had nothing to play for come the end of the season whereas the other big clubs did.

Many of them also had the CL latter stages which often results in less focus and poorer results in league games.

Aside from that it fails to take into considerations performances which are a key factor in showing a team has progressed, as many have said they weren’t good in many games.

In the end league position and performances are the determining factor regarding progress, as people said Emery went on a long unbeaten run, but performances were sketchy at times and it wasn’t sustainable to keep getting results playing like this, we didn’t in the end.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 11:16 am

Özim wrote:The record you mention isn’t relevant because form across two seasons is unrelated, as someone said the players are different, the teams different.

It also ignores important defeats in other competitions and of course the fact that we had nothing to play for come the end of the season whereas the other big clubs did.

Many of them also had the CL latter stages which often results in less focus and poorer results in league games.

Aside from that it fails to take into considerations performances which are a key factor in showing a team has progressed, as many have said they weren’t good in many games.

In the end league position and performances are the determining factor regarding progress, as people said Emery went on a long unbeaten run, but performances were sketchy at times and it wasn’t sustainable to keep getting results playing like this, we didn’t in the end.


It's entirely relevant to the point being made.
Since our 2 month slump we have improved dramatically to the point where over a sustained period of 31 PL games we have won the 4th most points.
It destroys any notion that we are not progressing.
There is no point being made that we have finished high in the league - or done well over a single season.
The only point - and where this run of form was first mentioned - is that we are most certainly progressing (and progressing well).
It's undeniable fact.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:37 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
TedLasso wrote:The statement is true and impressive in isolation. Its also arbitrary and cherry-picked data. Any side can look top 4 if you choose the right date range.


Any side?
The only sides that can possibly be in the top 4 points winners over a 31 game period are sides that are doing well over that period.
Just like us - we've been doing well since Christmas 2020. It's not a random time period... it's the LAST 31 games since we came out of our slump.

To put it another way - how can we be as shit as some are making out if we are the 4th highest points winners since Dec 2020?
Makes no sense. Before then we WERE doing shit (for 2 months), but since then, no. We've been on good form. That's just a factual statement based on the points we've won compared to others.

Conversely, if we were as good as your 31 game period makes out we wouldn't be 11th now and we wouldn't have finished 8th last season.

The league table doesn't lie Jay !!
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:40 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
TedLasso wrote:The statement is true and impressive in isolation. Its also arbitrary and cherry-picked data. Any side can look top 4 if you choose the right date range.


Any side?
The only sides that can possibly be in the top 4 points winners over a 31 game period are sides that are doing well over that period.
Just like us - we've been doing well since Christmas 2020. It's not a random time period... it's the LAST 31 games since we came out of our slump.

To put it another way - how can we be as shit as some are making out if we are the 4th highest points winners since Dec 2020?
Makes no sense. Before then we WERE doing shit (for 2 months), but since then, no. We've been on good form. That's just a factual statement based on the points we've won compared to others.

Conversely, if we were as good as your 31 game period makes out we wouldn't be 11th now and we wouldn't have finished 8th last season.

The league table doesn't lie Jay !!


That makes no sense.

We HAVE been the 4th best team over the last 31 games.
We DID finish 8th
We ARE 11th

I am not making up how good we have been over the last 31 games. We've been the 4th best team in the league - factually.
The reasons that has not translated to a single season should be fairly obvious, but that was never the point.
The point is we have progressed significantly since our 2-month slump - and maintained that progress for 31 games so far.
I see the positive of that and it gives me encouragement we can maintain it for the NEXT 31 games.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby theHotHead » Wed Oct 13, 2021 1:49 pm

jayramfootball wrote:Some do.
The difference between Arsenal and top 4 last year was terrible run of 7 games.
That's it.
But since those games , 31 matches later, we've won the 4th most points in the league.

Whichever way you cut it, we're not close to being as terrible as you make out.
Were actually doing well since Dec 2020 and we should be pretty positive for the rest of the season ahead.

Jay, we have played 7, won 3, drawn 1, lost 3.

Thats as terrible as we are making out !!
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:44 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Some do.
The difference between Arsenal and top 4 last year was terrible run of 7 games.
That's it.
But since those games , 31 matches later, we've won the 4th most points in the league.

Whichever way you cut it, we're not close to being as terrible as you make out.
Were actually doing well since Dec 2020 and we should be pretty positive for the rest of the season ahead.

Jay, we have played 7, won 3, drawn 1, lost 3.

Thats as terrible as we are making out !!


Not an issue after 7 games (we're only 4 points off top 4) and your point is a flat out deflection on the facts I have given you.
We had a terrible spell of 2 months and have come out of that slump. Since coming out of it we are on a 31 game run where we have won more points than all but 3 clubs.
If you don't understand that is progress and an improvement then I don't know what to tell you.
It remains a fact, however - a fact that blows away any arguments that we're not progressing.

Let me put it another way

Arteta games 1-34 in charge averaged 1.38 points per game.
Arteta games 35-65 in charge averaged 1.84 points per game. Top 4 level.

The turnaround happened at a point where we had reached despair and most (myself included) were Arteta out.
Since that low point we have improved dramatically.
The reason that has not translated into a top 4/6 finish yet is that the turnaround happened midseason - there were reasons (mainly player related) for that. If we continue with the rate of points we are picking up that we have in the last 31 games until the end of this season, we'll be on the cusp of top 4.
Last edited by jayramfootball on Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby swipe right » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:53 pm

Jay should help Willock write his CV. Based on that Newcastle form he can get him a Messi type of contract.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 2:56 pm

swipe right wrote:Jay should help Willock write his CV. Based on that Newcastle form he can get him a Messi type of contract.


That was a much shorter period and this season he hasn't scored - which is what I knew would happen
Unlike some who pretended he was great purely because Arteta got rid of him. :biggrin:
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby swipe right » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:20 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Jay should help Willock write his CV. Based on that Newcastle form he can get him a Messi type of contract.


That was a much shorter period and this season he hasn't scored - which is what I knew would happen
Unlike some who pretended he was great purely because Arteta got rid of him. :biggrin:

Chill bro. We all get the point you’re making which is our form over the past thirty odd games isn’t bad. The reason you’re getting pushback is our eyes and the table tell a different story. What we see is an unsettled team with plenty of unresolved issues and a manager that does not exude confidence. The table reflects this. You may well be right that we have turned a corner and we all hope it to be true. But we too may be right that this is an aberration. Emery also went on mazy runs of form that amounted to nothing. It was evident then too that there were problems and we were papering over the cracks.
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Re: Implications of Newcastle takeover on Arsenal

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Oct 13, 2021 3:26 pm

swipe right wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:Jay should help Willock write his CV. Based on that Newcastle form he can get him a Messi type of contract.


That was a much shorter period and this season he hasn't scored - which is what I knew would happen
Unlike some who pretended he was great purely because Arteta got rid of him. :biggrin:

Chill bro. We all get the point you’re making which is our form over the past thirty odd games isn’t bad. The reason you’re getting pushback is our eyes and the table tell a different story. What we see is an unsettled team with plenty of unresolved issues and a manager that does not exude confidence. The table reflects this. You may well be right that we have turned a corner and we all hope it to be true. But we too may be right that this is an aberration. Emery also went on mazy runs of form that amounted to nothing. It was evident then too that there were problems and we were papering over the cracks.


Well, we can't know for sure either way whether the improved form will continue.
We do know that we have improved, however, and that is the only point.
To be honest, even the improved form is not where we want to be - it's not going to get anywhere close to challenging for a title. It's not an end game - we still need to get better. There most certainly are still issues. But, for this season, just being in the mix for the top 4 with a few games to go will be good.
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