Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Feb 22, 2021 9:02 pm

ag6789 wrote:The problem will be after Arteta who?
European managers will require substantial fund inputs to build their own. Though the young guns will adapt again to a new manger don't expect the seniors like Auba, Laca, Luiz, Willian changing their ways. Then another merry go round of off loading will start. An English manager is probably a better bait willing work with limited budget and whatever is available.
But overall another bout of uncertainty fir another season.
During rhe transition from GG to Wenger via Rioch we were very lucky, but might not be this time. Looks like years of mediocrity ahead.


I just look at teams like West Ham, like Leicester, even Wolves to a certain extent and think, they all play for the manager, play for the team and the players do what the managers ask.

The problem with our team is you have a bunch of players who think they're stars and are too good to do the grunt work or play for the badge properly, this lot play for Arsenal for the easy life.
To try and look like a top team but just aren't that level.

The style of play Arteta wants from us we're just not good enough for, where's our cutting edge?
There is no point in having all this possession if our players aren't good enough to penetrate the box and go wide all the time.

I thought we were getting over that hump with the Leeds win but we're back at it, I watched the City players always driving into our box and I saw as doing the opposite, always going for the weak option of passing out to Tierney for a crappy cross which just gives away the ball.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:26 pm

I think come what may now he'll be given another season after this.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Callum » Mon Feb 22, 2021 10:47 pm

theHotHead wrote:Not sure how you can be happy to wait and see how this season plays out, let alone the next. If we finish this season with the mediocrity on display now I won't be tuning in to watch Arsenal, I was excited about this season, thats all gone now, it will be like the final seasons of Wenger all over again, the apathy will take over.

That's fair enough, I just don't feel the same way. I tuned out in the latter-day Emery era but don't feel the same way currently.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby swipe right » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:04 am

What does he need to succeed? More players? I think we have a good enough squad to push for fourth. Maybe we could do with a winger on the right, a more creative midfielder in deeper position and an upgrade at right back. But that’s about it. Arteta should be doing much better with what he has right now. He was sold as some tactical genius by Pep but he doesn’t seem like one.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby elkanofan » Tue Feb 23, 2021 4:33 am

Callum wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Callum wrote:If they didn't sack him after the run we had in November and December, they won't sack him this summer. Even if we finish 10th.
If we don't get at least top 6 and win the EL

Or by a miracle get top 4.

Do you honestly believe he deserves to stay next season and what are your reasons for keeping him?

I ask this to those who still seem convinced Arteta is the man.

I'm not convinced Arteta is the man who'll lead us to where we want to be, but I do think he can improve us. There are flaws in his management—substitutions, game management, and our inconsistent attack—but I also think he's suffered from factors either out of his control or decisions made before his time, such as the mismanagement at board level and the imbalanced, bloated squad he inherited from Wenger and Emery's tenures.

I also acknowledged, as the club did, that when he appointed him we were appointing a young manager who was going to have to learn on the job. He's taken over at a time where the club's finances have suffered, there are no fans in stadiums, and the club as a whole is in a state of flux. This doesn't absolve him of his mistakes but I do think those considerations must be made.

Either way, the club made their stance clear when they promoted him to Manager and when they didn't buckle during that awful run of form. I don't see them making a change anytime soon. I'm not going to sit here saying he needs to be sacked but I'm also not certain that he'll deliver us Champions League football either, although with the way this club has been run I'm not confident there's many available managers I'd be confident of doing that either.

I like what I've seen since the Chelsea game, and do feel we have potential in the squad with the likes of Gabriel, Tierney, Smith Rowe, Martinelli and Saka. I can't see the club losing their nerve, even if we finish midtable, so rather than calling for his head and frothing at the mouth that we didn't appoint Ancelotti I'm happy to wait and see how this season and the next plays out.


Since the Chelsea game we have been up and down, we have shown good potential in a good talented squad but too many times we have been shown as a flawed and fragile side in achieving results which the talent should deliver. Arteta is in too deep in my opinion and has taken on much more than he can handle. He has potential as a manager but he's jumped into a situation were he's underperforming, unsure of his philosophy and is not transmitting a sense of conviction to the squad. In the situation Arsenal are in, we cant afford now for this project not to work because this side and downgrade of the club for the last 4 years needs a turnaround to begin this process! This 'process' require for our last league position at a minimum at 8th to be improved upon and coming into March with more losses than wins does not show we are moving forward with this process, instead the same old incompetence is ever growing worse.

Leicester and West Ham are were this team is talented enough to be. Even in Arteta's first full season, results like the 1-0 loss vs Burnley is not acceptable any manger with this squad available to him. I think Arteta needs to be take seriously on his failures and no matter how much potential is clearly there, we need to consider how effective he is as a manager for taking this club forward and not get drawn into romanticism or fairytales of the former club player turned don while the reality shows us becoming more and more entrenched in midtable.

We will never have another story like Wenger again for a long time, the nature of football would have to change completely. There are many managers out there, we need this club to move forward, a part of me still hopes Arteta can prove me wrong because I want us to succeed of course We can't wait around for this romanticized 'genius' to appear and give him all the time he needs. Arteta was arrogant enough not to bother with a lower tier club to learn the basics of day to day management for at least a year, or really ground himself in 2-4 years of management to attain some success possibly or consistent positive results based on his sides's quality he's managed, no he is here now based on his agreement he is the man to take on a process which will see us improve on what's happen before and whatever that style of play is it will get us the results we need to follow the 'process'.

It will come down to this, however nice football we might start to play with more attacking mids, there are managers out there better than Arteta we should call on to get the best out of them. We should hesitate to say that act on getting there if needed, and it's looking likely.

Arteta doesn't deserve time, if he proved himself before getting the job he would deserve it based on reputation, but he's still a novice and not someone we should trust if things don't work out at the first hurdle.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:32 am

Phil71 wrote:I think come what may now he'll be given another season after this.


Sadly I think you are right, we might as well get used to mediocrity as that all we will have with this numpty in charge and this gutless money-grabbing board.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Feb 23, 2021 7:55 am

If it were Henry, Vieria or Ljunberg in charge with this record, would anyone be convinced they needed more time and backing? I don’t see it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Özim » Tue Feb 23, 2021 8:17 am

I don’t know what we stand to achieve by keeping him, this guy is not the next Klopp, it’s pretty clear, so what are we hoping for exactly, another year in midtable so that we get closer to 20 years without a major trophy?
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:07 pm

Callum wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Not sure how you can be happy to wait and see how this season plays out, let alone the next. If we finish this season with the mediocrity on display now I won't be tuning in to watch Arsenal, I was excited about this season, thats all gone now, it will be like the final seasons of Wenger all over again, the apathy will take over.

That's fair enough, I just don't feel the same way. I tuned out in the latter-day Emery era but don't feel the same way currently.

Yeah I get that, the straw that broke the camel's back for me was that 8-10 week period where we were absoluely shocking, the crap the guy was coming out with I felt was like taking a piss out of the fans, as if we were stupid. He got lucky he was forced into playing ESR which brought him a temporary reprieve with some people, but for me the damage was done.

So when I hear talk about 10th and 8th place being acceptable it makes my blood boil, not least because I know the players are capable of so much more.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby theHotHead » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:11 pm

Power n Glory wrote:If it were Henry, Vieria or Ljunberg in charge with this record, would anyone be convinced they needed more time and backing? I don’t see it.

Very good point, people would want them sacked as well, no time for sentiment.

Also great shout from Elkanofan, about Arteta being in too deep. I think the decision to promote him to manager looks to have been far too hasty, he should be focusing on the coaching/playing side and nothing else.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Nuggets » Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:21 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:If it were Henry, Vieria or Ljunberg in charge with this record, would anyone be convinced they needed more time and backing? I don’t see it.

Very good point, people would want them sacked as well, no time for sentiment.

Also great shout from Elkanofan, about Arteta being in too deep. I think the decision to promote him to manager looks to have been far too hasty, he should be focusing on the coaching/playing side and nothing else.


That makes a lot of sense to me, they certainly jumped the gun with Arteta because he was the cheap one and now we are paying for it.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Phil71 » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:04 pm

I think the aim of the board is to get back into the CL, and they will have recognised when they employed Arteta that this would be a very difficult target to achieve in one and a half seasons all things considered.

My guess is it was a 2.5 season plan. They'll probably take a view on how things might be progressing half way through next season.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:20 pm

Pep's endorsement and the PR hype around his abilities has helped carry the optimism. It may take years for him to become a good manager but that's assuming their will be progress and an upwards trajectory. Took Wenger 4 years to find his mojo when first starting as a manager. Almost twice as long for Klopp to find his. Not sure what the Board are expecting but are they prepared to give a similar amount of time to Arteta to develop? Surely that's suicidal for the club and especially if we're bleeding money.
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby aniym » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:23 pm

Callum wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Not sure how you can be happy to wait and see how this season plays out, let alone the next. If we finish this season with the mediocrity on display now I won't be tuning in to watch Arsenal, I was excited about this season, thats all gone now, it will be like the final seasons of Wenger all over again, the apathy will take over.

That's fair enough, I just don't feel the same way. I tuned out in the latter-day Emery era but don't feel the same way currently.


That is strange because we are worse now than we were when he was sacked. When was the last time you hoped for a draw between Leeds and Palace?

The team is entirely dependent on a 19yo, 20yo and 22yo to get anything out of a game now.

And the 20yo couldn't even a get a sub appearance until we were in 15th and dropping!
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Re: Mikel Arteta, First-Team Manager

Postby aniym » Tue Feb 23, 2021 2:33 pm

Power n Glory wrote:If it were Henry, Vieria or Ljunberg in charge with this record, would anyone be convinced they needed more time and backing? I don’t see it.


Manager's popularity and prestige among the media is definitely a factor here. Arteta is still widely considered a prodigy, and his lack of experience is rarely questioned. In fact, it's usually portrayed as an asset, as if he's the 'modern manager' that a stodgy club like Arsenal need.

The reality is that he plays incredibly cautious, defensive football 60% of the time, and still concedes early goals frequently.
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