Mesut Özil (10)

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Sat Nov 21, 2020 4:48 pm

KG3 wrote:If you deny Fabregas was better you were either too young to watch him during his Arsenal time or still bitter about him leaving and eventually playing for Chelsea.

I hate fabregas like I hate Ashley Cole but that doesn’t stop me from admitting he’s the best creative mid we’ve ever had, just as Cole is the best LB we’ve ever had.

You people need to learn to separate your feelings from you judgement.


Nah.

Value judgment is coming into play here. When Cesc was our main man, Wenger was in his prime; we were playing the best football in Europe; for many, we were the hipster team. There was hope. There was nativity.

That automatically makes us recall those days with zeal and nostalgia.

Cesc played with Henry, Gilberto, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Hleb, Rosicky, van Persie, Arshavin, Adebayor, and Nasri.

Ozil played with Alexis, Giroud, Cazorla, Walcott, Ramsey, Xhaka, Auba, et. al. Apart from Alexis, none of them are in the same league.

If you're going to compare, you have to be objective. Messi, despite being the greatest of all time, arguably, dragged Argentina to 3x finals, but couldn't take them over the line. At Barca, he was winning stuffs at a canter. We didn't even win anything in those Cesc years.

Direct comparison works when supporting actors are on even footing, which is why Messi v Ron is a fair analysis, but Henry v Benzema isn't.

Wenger was the greatest walking manager until 2012. He absolutely overachieved whether it was the Cesc years or the Ozil years. But back during Cesc's time here, we always had hope. We believed in an Arsenal renaissance. The Ozil years was filled with negativity, and a grumbling discontent towards Wenger and how things were at Arsenal, which is why people recall the Cesc years in a more positive way.

Cesc is the closest we have had to an Arsenal legend since the Highbury guys. He came here when he was 16. Became a regular at 18. Was captain by 21. Absolutely bossed games. And, then he left. It was an unfulfilled journey, which is why people reframe his legacy and caliber. There was so much good about Arsenal there and hindsight only serves to polish the spark.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby aniym » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:38 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:Wasn't cesc fault Wenger turned him down


I can't blame Wenger for not re-signing him. We had Cazorla and Ozil in 2014 and that money rightly went towards buying Alexis.

Only via a magic 8 ball could we have known that Cazorla would have a serious injury and that Ozils peak would be so short-lived.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Ach » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:39 pm

Didn't want Cesc back. Why would anyone after how he left?
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Sat Nov 21, 2020 5:53 pm

aniym wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Wasn't cesc fault Wenger turned him down


I can't blame Wenger for not re-signing him. We had Cazorla and Ozil in 2014 and that money rightly went towards buying Alexis.

Only via a magic 8 ball could we have known that Cazorla would have a serious injury and that Ozils peak would be so short-lived.


Wenger was using Cazorla to play on the wing at that time which was a waste of his talent. Took injuries to Ramsey, Wilshere and Ozil for Wenger to play him as a CM.

We would have seen the best of Ozil earlier if he had given up the ghost on Ramsey and Wilshere much sooner and bought Cesc back.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:11 pm

Cesc played with Henry, Gilberto, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Hleb, Rosicky, van Persie, Arshavin, Adebayor, and Nasri.

Ozil played with Alexis, Giroud, Cazorla, Walcott, Ramsey, Xhaka, Auba, et. al. Apart from Alexis, none of them are in the same league
.

That's a massive misrepresentation of who Cesc played with and you've purposely left off some of the weaker players he'd often played with but oddly enough they appear on Ozil's list. Cesc also played Walcott and Ramsey but they were more inexperienced and not as good.

Look up the line up where he was playing injured vs Barca. We were playing with Diaby and Song in the middle. Bendtner up front.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 591643.stm

Or maybe the AC Milan win where we're up against Ancelotti's me. Kaka, Pirlo, Gattuso, Maldini and Nesta.

https://www.skysports.com/football/ac-m ... eams/98222

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbe ... icht/88402

He's playing with Diaby and Flamini in midfield. Eboue and Hleb on the wings. Gallas and Senderos as CB. Ade up front. That's not a strong team but they got the job done..

It was a revolving door at Arsenal at the time and there was no consistency expect for Cesc's performances. Rosicky was injury prone, so was RVP who was also immature and inconsistent at the time when Cesc was around. Nasri was never that good. Hleb neither. Ade and Arshavin's careers here were short along with there run of good form. Despite all that, Cesc had grown into a top goal scorer and playmaker.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Santi » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:25 pm

Was a huge mistake not bringing Cesc back, he wanted to come and we all knew how good he was. Shame Chelsea got the benefit and we got more Ramsey...
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Marsbar100 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:27 pm

Cesc and ozil together would have been unstoppable, the two best creative midfielders over the last 10-15 years.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Ach » Sat Nov 21, 2020 7:30 pm

Cesc had a good 2 months for Chelsea and was never seen again lol

Bringing him back would have accelerated our decline more cos we didn't have a flamini to baby sit him
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Dejan » Sat Nov 21, 2020 8:47 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Cesc played with Henry, Gilberto, Pires, Ljungberg, Bergkamp, Hleb, Rosicky, van Persie, Arshavin, Adebayor, and Nasri.

Ozil played with Alexis, Giroud, Cazorla, Walcott, Ramsey, Xhaka, Auba, et. al. Apart from Alexis, none of them are in the same league
.

That's a massive misrepresentation of who Cesc played with and you've purposely left off some of the weaker players he'd often played with but oddly enough they appear on Ozil's list. Cesc also played Walcott and Ramsey but they were more inexperienced and not as good.

Look up the line up where he was playing injured vs Barca. We were playing with Diaby and Song in the middle. Bendtner up front.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/footbal ... 591643.stm

Or maybe the AC Milan win where we're up against Ancelotti's me. Kaka, Pirlo, Gattuso, Maldini and Nesta.

https://www.skysports.com/football/ac-m ... eams/98222

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/spielbe ... icht/88402

He's playing with Diaby and Flamini in midfield. Eboue and Hleb on the wings. Gallas and Senderos as CB. Ade up front. That's not a strong team but they got the job done..

It was a revolving door at Arsenal at the time and there was no consistency expect for Cesc's performances. Rosicky was injury prone, so was RVP who was also immature and inconsistent at the time when Cesc was around. Nasri was never that good. Hleb neither. Ade and Arshavin's careers here were short along with there run of good form. Despite all that, Cesc had grown into a top goal scorer and playmaker.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby KG3 » Sat Nov 21, 2020 9:50 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
aniym wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Wasn't cesc fault Wenger turned him down


I can't blame Wenger for not re-signing him. We had Cazorla and Ozil in 2014 and that money rightly went towards buying Alexis.

Only via a magic 8 ball could we have known that Cazorla would have a serious injury and that Ozils peak would be so short-lived.


Wenger was using Cazorla to play on the wing at that time which was a waste of his talent. Took injuries to Ramsey, Wilshere and Ozil for Wenger to play him as a CM.

We would have seen the best of Ozil earlier if he had given up the ghost on Ramsey and Wilshere much sooner and bought Cesc back.


If we bought in Fabregas we wouldn’t have bought Xhaka 2 years later who was the same price, probably could have won the title in 15-16 also.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby starmandb » Sat Nov 21, 2020 10:34 pm

aniym wrote:
starmandb wrote:Özil was superb when we were 2-0 down at Ludogorets in 16/17
Provided an assist for Xhaka and scored the winner. Lobbing the keeper and making two defenders have to pay to get back in again before finishing


He schooled them that day. But it was still Ludogorets, a team we hit 6 against in the first leg, where Ozil got a hattrick. Being down 2-0 to them a week later is Arsenal being Arsenal, not because they're strong opposition.

PSG did draw at home with ludogrets in the same group and were behind twice. Liverpool drew there once as well
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:02 am

Thread has got hijacked by idiots. Cesc and Ozil are incredible players. There’s not much to choose between them. My point was that we should be using Ozil the way Monaco uses Cesc. There is still life in these players because their game is not based on physical prowess. It’s based on speed of thought and technical ability which does not diminish much with age.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Nov 22, 2020 8:14 am

KG3 wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
aniym wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Wasn't cesc fault Wenger turned him down


I can't blame Wenger for not re-signing him. We had Cazorla and Ozil in 2014 and that money rightly went towards buying Alexis.

Only via a magic 8 ball could we have known that Cazorla would have a serious injury and that Ozils peak would be so short-lived.


Wenger was using Cazorla to play on the wing at that time which was a waste of his talent. Took injuries to Ramsey, Wilshere and Ozil for Wenger to play him as a CM.

We would have seen the best of Ozil earlier if he had given up the ghost on Ramsey and Wilshere much sooner and bought Cesc back.


If we bought in Fabregas we wouldn’t have bought Xhaka 2 years later who was the same price, probably could have won the title in 15-16 also.


That Xhaka transfer was the nail in the coffin. I can't believe the sheer stupidity of it. Sealed our fate. He is the embodiment of every flaw we've seen in our midfield. Pace of Cesc, Ozil level defending, the vision of Denilson (Mr sideways) and about as much as a goal threat as Francis Coquelin. Turns like a tractor on the ball, super one footed, the tekkers of Sokratis and unfortunately, super reliable and hardly injured.

Oh yes and they decided to make him captain.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:30 pm

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Sun Nov 22, 2020 6:30 pm

Angelito wrote:Image
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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