The Wizard of Özil

Post any questions you have relating to the history of Arsenal—or read all about your beloved club.

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Angelito » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:47 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?


Nobody has an issue with Ozil being benched. The problem is, he's not being benched! He's not even in the squad when he's out second highest earner.

And, he sure as heck isn't the worst player amongst those 25 here.

Ozil won't be here next season. Arteta will be. He won't be able to hide being Ozil for too much long. Arsenal fans won't be able to blame Ozil for long. The script will write itself soon.

I don't want my manager to say that losing 1-0 to this City side is "progress."


Do we know when Ozil last had an impact off the bench?


Strawman.

When was the last time half of our players ever had an impact in their entire careers?

The argument is simply that Ozil is a better than half of the players we have whether he's past it or not. It's another thing that he has been a bonafide starter for every manager he's ever played for until Emery happened.
Image
User avatar
Angelito
Global Moderator
Global Moderator
 
Posts: 30546
Joined: Fri May 25, 2012 9:32 am
Location: Lyra

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:13 pm

Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?


Nobody has an issue with Ozil being benched. The problem is, he's not being benched! He's not even in the squad when he's out second highest earner.

And, he sure as heck isn't the worst player amongst those 25 here.

Ozil won't be here next season. Arteta will be. He won't be able to hide being Ozil for too much long. Arsenal fans won't be able to blame Ozil for long. The script will write itself soon.

I don't want my manager to say that losing 1-0 to this City side is "progress."


Do we know when Ozil last had an impact off the bench?


Strawman.

When was the last time half of our players ever had an impact in their entire careers?

The argument is simply that Ozil is a better than half of the players we have whether he's past it or not. It's another thing that he has been a bonafide starter for every manager he's ever played for until Emery happened.


Strawman? I've asked you a question.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby gamechannel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:26 pm

VCC wrote:Arteta system is one of press with out the ball this is something asked of all the players with the possibility of putting your foot in to win the ball.
That one factor is why Ozil wont be picked and probably never will again for Arsenal.the gaffer ain't going to ask for something to be a constant player must do, then exempt someone from that


LOL!

When you're down a goal and chasing the game, you don't keep relying on pressing and keep passing the ball sideways in your own half. You throw out your attacking subs, change tactics and you go for it. Thats where you throw someone like Ozil out there with 20 mins remaining and see what that does. Based on the 2nd half performance vs Man City with 20 mins to go, there was ZERO evidence that we were going to produce any attacking threat with the tactics we were employing. No one is asking that Ozil be an undroppable starter. But he sure as hell should be used in situations where plan A aint working.

Arteta is in a dick measuring contest with Ozil cuz Ozil wouldn't succumb to Arteta's rather bizarre decision to get involved with the players' paycut proposal and that has pissed Arteta off. He's absolutely clueless on the offensive side of the game and has shown no ability to change tactics midway through the game if his Mourinho style isn't working.
gamechannel
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:42 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby gamechannel » Mon Oct 19, 2020 6:28 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?


Nobody has an issue with Ozil being benched. The problem is, he's not being benched! He's not even in the squad when he's out second highest earner.

And, he sure as heck isn't the worst player amongst those 25 here.

Ozil won't be here next season. Arteta will be. He won't be able to hide being Ozil for too much long. Arsenal fans won't be able to blame Ozil for long. The script will write itself soon.

I don't want my manager to say that losing 1-0 to this City side is "progress."


Do we know when Ozil last had an impact off the bench?


Strawman.

When was the last time half of our players ever had an impact in their entire careers?

The argument is simply that Ozil is a better than half of the players we have whether he's past it or not. It's another thing that he has been a bonafide starter for every manager he's ever played for until Emery happened.


Strawman? I've asked you a question.


When was the last time Laca, Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Willian did anything after coming on?
gamechannel
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1241
Joined: Sat Mar 04, 2017 5:42 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Oct 19, 2020 7:00 pm

Lacazette and Willock in July against Wolves. Willock with the assist Laca with the goal.

Before that Laca came of the bench to get the assist against Southampton in June setting up Willock. Before that Lacac got a goal and assist when coming on against Newcastle in a 5 minute cameo back in February.

Nketiah came off the bench to score against West Ham to win us the game.this season.

Nelson has done anything of note off the bench and Willian has only come off from the bench for us once in his short career at Arsenal.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby starmandb » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:58 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?

The 2-1 win at the emirates just before Xmas 2015
Was very good from start to finish and set up both goals
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 14125
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Oct 19, 2020 9:20 pm

starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?

The 2-1 win at the emirates just before Xmas 2015
Was very good from start to finish and set up both goals


Cheers, Starman. 2015 it is.
User avatar
Power n Glory
Member of the Year 2022
Member of the Year 2022
 
Posts: 7930
Joined: Thu Nov 08, 2018 6:02 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby starmandb » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:05 pm

gamechannel wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?


Nobody has an issue with Ozil being benched. The problem is, he's not being benched! He's not even in the squad when he's out second highest earner.

And, he sure as heck isn't the worst player amongst those 25 here.

Ozil won't be here next season. Arteta will be. He won't be able to hide being Ozil for too much long. Arsenal fans won't be able to blame Ozil for long. The script will write itself soon.

I don't want my manager to say that losing 1-0 to this City side is "progress."


Do we know when Ozil last had an impact off the bench?


Strawman.

When was the last time half of our players ever had an impact in their entire careers?

The argument is simply that Ozil is a better than half of the players we have whether he's past it or not. It's another thing that he has been a bonafide starter for every manager he's ever played for until Emery happened.


Strawman? I've asked you a question.


When was the last time Laca, Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Willian did anything after coming on?

Lacazette scored last season at wolves after coming off the bench. Willock set it up after coming off the bench, nhketiah got the winner v West Ham. Willian has only come off the bench at Leicester in the league cup when we were 1 nil up
User avatar
starmandb
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
Member of the Year 2018, 2020
 
Posts: 14125
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2010 7:55 am

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby UFGN » Mon Oct 19, 2020 10:11 pm

starmandb wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
gamechannel wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I don't get any argument along the lines of, as poor as we have been creatively Ozil would be of no benefit.

Thats total bull crap.


Thats just the same old rhetoric from Ozil critics. Their criticism is not invalid that his impact has diminished compared to his earlier years. But its their constant refusal to come up with a single viable name in the current squad when asked about a better alternative for Ozil that makes me laugh. They keep saying Ozil is past it yet he's still the best creative mid we got but the Ozil critics won't admit that cuz they're blinded by their agendas. Its one thing to say Ozil shouldn't play over someone like Havertz, Firminho, Fernandez et al, but to say that he doesn't deserve to play while we trot out rubbish like Willock, Nelson, Willian etc is lunacy.


That's great. But tell me the last time Ozil had an impact against Man City and helped us win the game?


Nobody has an issue with Ozil being benched. The problem is, he's not being benched! He's not even in the squad when he's out second highest earner.

And, he sure as heck isn't the worst player amongst those 25 here.

Ozil won't be here next season. Arteta will be. He won't be able to hide being Ozil for too much long. Arsenal fans won't be able to blame Ozil for long. The script will write itself soon.

I don't want my manager to say that losing 1-0 to this City side is "progress."


Do we know when Ozil last had an impact off the bench?


Strawman.

When was the last time half of our players ever had an impact in their entire careers?

The argument is simply that Ozil is a better than half of the players we have whether he's past it or not. It's another thing that he has been a bonafide starter for every manager he's ever played for until Emery happened.


Strawman? I've asked you a question.


When was the last time Laca, Nelson, Nketiah, Willock, Willian did anything after coming on?

Lacazette scored last season at wolves after coming off the bench. Willock set it up after coming off the bench, nhketiah got the winner v West Ham. Willian has only come off the bench at Leicester in the league cup when we were 1 nil up


You see, the difference between Ozil and Starman is, both are past their best and charge eye watering fees, but Starman still has something to offer
Corinthians 15:57; But thanks be to God, which giveth us the victory through our Lord Jesus

Image
User avatar
UFGN
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
Member of the Year 2014, 2019
 
Posts: 23383
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2008 1:46 pm
Location: London, init

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Oct 20, 2020 12:15 am

Today's the last day to submit this season's EPL squad ... will he / won't he be in?
EliteKiller
Tony Adams
Tony Adams
 
Posts: 5652
Joined: Fri Apr 29, 2016 11:48 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby mel4 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:29 am

EliteKiller wrote:Today's the last day to submit this season's EPL squad ... will he / won't he be in?


Hopefelly he is not so that this thread may finally die, and people will stop bickering about his inclusion or not until January window


........ 1 - nil to The Arsenal
mel4
Thierry Henry
Thierry Henry
 
Posts: 1805
Joined: Sun Jun 07, 2009 11:07 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby VCC » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:49 am

gamechannel wrote:
VCC wrote:Arteta system is one of press with out the ball this is something asked of all the players with the possibility of putting your foot in to win the ball.
That one factor is why Ozil wont be picked and probably never will again for Arsenal.the gaffer ain't going to ask for something to be a constant player must do, then exempt someone from that


LOL!

When you're down a goal and chasing the game, you don't keep relying on pressing and keep passing the ball sideways in your own half. You throw out your attacking subs, change tactics and you go for it. Thats where you throw someone like Ozil out there with 20 mins remaining and see what that does. Based on the 2nd half performance vs Man City with 20 mins to go, there was ZERO evidence that we were going to produce any attacking threat with the tactics we were employing. No one is asking that Ozil be an undroppable starter. But he sure as hell should be used in situations where plan A aint working.

Arteta is in a dick measuring contest with Ozil cuz Ozil wouldn't succumb to Arteta's rather bizarre decision to get involved with the players' paycut proposal and that has pissed Arteta off. He's absolutely clueless on the offensive side of the game and has shown no ability to change tactics midway through the game if his Mourinho style isn't working.

Didnt read a word past your opening couple of lines.
Point is play Ozil and you will be a goal down.
We are behind many other clubs now at possession based football,playing a passenger when we dont have the ball isn't an option, and with that point I agree with the gaffer leave the man at home on the playstation
User avatar
VCC
Arsène Wenger
Arsène Wenger
 
Posts: 15405
Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2011 12:04 am

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby LMAO » Tue Oct 20, 2020 4:50 am

mel4 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:Today's the last day to submit this season's EPL squad ... will he / won't he be in?


Hopefelly he is not so that this thread may finally die, and people will stop bickering about his inclusion or not until January window


Wishful thinking. This board is going to quarrel until Ozil's contract runs out.

If he's in the squad, it'll be some variation of, "Why play him when he's offering little? Give the minutes to someone else who'll make a bigger impact or have a chance to develop." If he's not in the squad, it'll be some variation of, "We could've used his creativity after that dull performance."
User avatar
LMAO
Member of the Year 2019
Member of the Year 2019
 
Posts: 9978
Joined: Sun Nov 03, 2013 10:53 pm

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Tue Oct 20, 2020 5:10 am

I miss Wenger’s brand of offensive football. Sure we conceded but it was glorious going forward.
swipe right
Dennis Bergkamp
Dennis Bergkamp
 
Posts: 7696
Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2018 5:05 am

Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Oct 20, 2020 6:45 am

VCC wrote:Arteta system is one of press with out the ball this is something asked of all the players with the possibility of putting your foot in to win the ball.
That one factor is why Ozil wont be picked and probably never will again for Arsenal.the gaffer ain't going to ask for something to be a constant player must do, then exempt someone from that

How much pressing does Willian do and how effective is he tackling back? Its all perception.
User avatar
theHotHead
Poster of the Month
Poster of the Month
 
Posts: 20274
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 12:44 am
Location: Norf Landon

PreviousNext

Return to The History Of Arsenal Football Club

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests