Bernd Leno (1)

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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby theHotHead » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:19 pm

If you look at any top keeper they don't parry the ball into danger unless it is literally a point blank shot and the ball ricochets off the keeper.

Parrying is part of being a goal keeper, you should be able to parry away from danger if you can see the shot, he should have parried the shot better than he did, it wasn't a "reflex save" where the ball can go anywhere.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:30 pm

Ach wrote:Love how a good month in a decade makes a player better than our second best player.

One thing I'm happy with about Leno is we haven't missed Martinez at all this season.


I would have preferred we kept Martinez and made Leno fight for his place. Agree on it being too short a window to assume Martinez was the better keeper. Plenty of occasions where the second choice keeper has a run of good form but we eventually see their flaws. Almunia had a run of good form before being made number one.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Santi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:32 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Ach wrote:Love how a good month in a decade makes a player better than our second best player.

One thing I'm happy with about Leno is we haven't missed Martinez at all this season.


I would have preferred we kept Martinez and made Leno fight for his place. Agree on it being too short a window to assume Martinez was the better keeper. Plenty of occasions where the second choice keeper has a run of good form but we eventually see their flaws. Almunia had a run of good form before being made number one.


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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby DiamondGooner » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:44 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:Big mistake keeping this guy over Emi


Agree he his parry to a City player in front of him was 70% of the reason we didn't get a result yesterday.

We tried to shut City out and did for the whole game bar the sort of mistake Emi didn't make, hence why we had a better run under Martinez.

............. however, we wouldn't of got Partey without that £20m for Emi so its pick your poison.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:46 pm

Santi wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Ach wrote:Love how a good month in a decade makes a player better than our second best player.

One thing I'm happy with about Leno is we haven't missed Martinez at all this season.


I would have preferred we kept Martinez and made Leno fight for his place. Agree on it being too short a window to assume Martinez was the better keeper. Plenty of occasions where the second choice keeper has a run of good form but we eventually see their flaws. Almunia had a run of good form before being made number one.


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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Power n Glory » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:51 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Big mistake keeping this guy over Emi


Agree he his parry to a City player in front of him was 70% of the reason we didn't get a result yesterday.

We tried to shut City out and did for the whole game bar the sort of mistake Emi didn't make, hence why we had a better run under Martinez.

............. however, we wouldn't of got Partey without that £20m for Emi so its pick your poison.


70%? That's a bit overcooked. That chance should have been put away first time from Foden.

The fault starts with Xhaka being too far up the pitch to track a man, so the space is wide open, Ceballos being too slow to cover the space and track Aguero, Luiz maybe could have stepped up earlier to pressure Aguero but the biggest mistake has to be Bellerin because there was still a high chance of us defending that attack. Instead forcing his man wide and making him to either cross or try to beat Leno on his near post, he dives in. A better strike from Foden and it's 1 nil anyway. Leno should have done better to push it wide but he can't take the majority of the blame.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby NJ_Gunner » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:15 pm

I like Leno. But look, Martinez is clearly a better keeper. If you think otherwise you’re lying to yourself. This guys keeping clean sheets for Villa who were leaking goals last year. It’s not a coincidence our form was great with him, and it’s not a coincidence Villa is 4-0. Martinez is a difference maker. He makes the defense more organized with his vocalization, claims crosses, and holds the ball on shots. Leno is a solid keep, but Martinez is totally on another level.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby VCC » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:21 pm

NJ_Gunner wrote:I like Leno. But look, Martinez is clearly a better keeper. If you think otherwise you’re lying to yourself. This guys keeping clean sheets for Villa who were leaking goals last year. It’s not a coincidence our form was great with him, and it’s not a coincidence Villa is 4-0. Martinez is a difference maker. He makes the defense more organized with his vocalization, claims crosses, and holds the ball on shots. Leno is a solid keep, but Martinez is totally on another level.

100% agree
But with Leno you get him saving the same shot numerous times potentially, that's far more exciting sadly that's the mentality of judging a keeper nowdays
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:33 pm

One month of football has brainwashed a lot of people.

Haven't missed Martinez at all this season. He was excellent no doubt for one month and we cashed in.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby alexafc12 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:38 pm

Martinez with another MOTM display. Sensational goalkeeping.

Reports circulating that Bayern will move for him to replace Neuer in the summer. Apparently willing to pay £80m.

He's being dubbed the new Olivier Khan ...

'King Emi. The new heir to the throne.'
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Nuggets » Mon Oct 19, 2020 5:31 am

alexafc12 wrote:Martinez with another MOTM display. Sensational goalkeeping.

Reports circulating that Bayern will move for him to replace Neuer in the summer. Apparently willing to pay £80m.

He's being dubbed the new Olivier Khan ...

'King Emi. The new heir to the throne.'

...and we sold him and kept Leno. :(
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Özim » Mon Oct 19, 2020 8:18 am

Martinez is gone now, so that’s not even a conversation really, I think the point really is that Leno needs to improve in some areas.

Basic error at the weekend and feel he’s started the season slowly.

Agree with PNG about Ceballos, Xhaka and Luiz best no the root cause which lead to the Leno error, but that’s on the manager and he insists on playing Xhaka and Luiz week in week out despite their obvious flaws and mistakes.

This blind spot for substandard players worries me, that’s something Wenger also had.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby theHotHead » Mon Oct 19, 2020 11:30 am

Well when people refuse to face reality let stats help them see the truth.

2020/21 season
Emiliano Martinez - 4 games, 3 clean sheets, 4 wins, 14 saves, 2 goals conceded, 0 punches, 5 high claims, 3 catches.
Berndt Leno - 5 games, 1 clean sheet, 3 wins, 14 saves, 6 goals conceded, 0 punches, 2 high claims, 2 catches.

Lets check last season
Emiliano Martinez - 9 games, 3 clean sheets, 5 wins, 34 saves, 9 goals conceded, 1 punch, 8 high claims, 4 catches.
Berndt Leno - 30 games, 7 clean sheets, 9 wins, 113 saves, 39 goals conceded, 17 punches, 17 high claims, 11 catches.

Now, consider in the 2020/21 season, Martinez is playing for Aston Villa, a team that stayed up through the skin of their teeth last season, there is no argument that he is playing behind worse quality players than us, his stats are convincingly better than Leno's. During last season the stats bear EXACTLY THE SAME data, that Martinez gets more clean sheets, the team therefore wins more games, made roughly the same number of saves as Leno, concedes fewer goals, punches the ball far far less and is much more dominant in the air, as seen by the number of high claims (all relative to Leno's numbers).

Why is this even an argument, Martinez is comfortably out-performing Leno. I understand the argument for keeping Leno and for selling Martinez, the fact it funded the Partey purchase justifies it. But don't try to make out Leno is on a par with Martinez - or better than him, that argument doesn't wash.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Ach » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:05 pm

Thank god gw wasn't around in 97/98.

Manninger better than Seaman would be doing the rounds.
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Re: Bernd Leno (1)

Postby Santi » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:10 pm

Martínez was comfortably better in the short spell we saw here. Only question is whether he could and can keep it up long term.

Arsenal gambled on ‘no’ and we’re left with a good keeper who played really well before his injury. Hopefully can get back to that level and stop these poor parries.
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