In the news today...

[theHotHead]

I'm sorry that you just don't understand what the movement is about, it's not about offending people, it's about treating people equally, and American has a horrible history of not doing that to all minorities, those are facts. Again, you take the negative that they say or do and paint the whole movement with the same brush and think that the overall message is wrong. I don't agree with everything they say or do, but that doesn't mean I don't agree with the overall message. Just like I'm sure you don't agree with everything that Trump says or does, but you still support him overall. It's just about equality and justice. I don't see why that is so hard to understand? The overall argument gets lost with these petty little side arguments that rise up during the main discussion. I've said many times, I don't agree with how this is all going down and being handled, but I'm rational enough to realize that the bad elements of the movement don't change the overall message. Too many people just wanna take the side of their already held political view, it's possible not to agree with the right or the left, it's possible to have rational opinions that fall toward the middle of the spectrum. It's possible to agree with a movement and it's message, and still not agree with every aspect of how its handled. It's called being rational and reasonable.

No that is not the issue! Nothing about the protests now are reasonable because the vast majority of the protesters have a far wider and more dangerous agenda than simply justice for George Floyd. That is my only point about BLM...they are not what you and even our football club understand. The whole situation needs be looked at from 40,000 feet.

Yes America and every culture has a HISTORY of inequality. Everyone understands that. The fact is that we as a nation have moved legislatively and socially to remedy that by enacting civil rights laws starting in the 60's and through social awareness. Desegregation was vital, as was looking past one;s skin colour and into a man's heart as MLK preached. Yes there are racist individuals, there always will be. But systemic racism is a falsehood simply because by definition that was eliminated by law. The term racism has been diluted into meaninglessness now. Every injustice and problem is blamed on racism when in fact those problems are more often due to poverty which correlates into crime and drug use. Yes poverty and crime is more prevalent in poor black communities...but also in poor white communities. That says to us that the issues are cultural not racial. But given "racism" has been used as a political tool for decades now the dye is set. This is what the right has been warning about all this time. It why ID politics is so poisonous. It separates and segregates for frankly evil purposes. It why have such a political divide and it is sickening.

Why given all the resources, all the effort, all the attitude changes across the whole population to fight racism, the election of black leadership in all these inner cities does poverty still exist to that level? I think it comes down to the disintegration of family structure and welfare dependence.

So we have "protesters" protesting the past, tearing down statues, demanding we get rid of all vestiges of the past. That is why I refer to Huxley and Orwell, to Communism and Marxism...all either warned or implemented that insidious tactic. Yes we have some well meaning protesters, but BLM is not in that category.

To simply infer anyone that does speak out against what these protests are now about, or to look to the true basis of the poverty and crime is bigoted or not understanding is cop out. To solve any problem you need to first fully understand and whole issue to find a solution. I am looking beyond the hype and social pressure to conform to blindly support the likes of BLM when their true agenda is to destroy our whole structure of democracy.

PRSS are you seriously telling me you think the vast majority of protestors are BLM, ANTIFA, Left Wing extremists, as opposed to the vast majority of people being blacks and whites fed up with the racially biased aggression toward black people alongside a minority that are BLM, ANTIFA and left wing extremists ?

I know people that have gone to the marches in London, none of them are BLM, they are marching to show support and nothing more. Interestingly, a good friend of mine practices (or used to) martial arts with the group of black guys that rescued that white EDL guy that was famously captured in the photo recently. Apparently they only went to the march because they knew the EDL were going to try to be aggressive against the BLM protestors and went to "protect" whoever they needed to. So this blanket assignment that everyone marching is a Left wing nut BLM agitator is nonsense.

[theHotHead]

I have no doubt there is discrimination to black people in the UK. But I too have suffered discrimination, as have a lot of other people like me. I still recall being invited for an interview in a City firm, (having been a bit vague on my CV). Once they discovered I hadn't gone to the right school, they ushered me out as soon as was respectfully possible. That was 35 years ago and I doubt much has changed.

There is discrimination at every level of society, black, white, working class, middle class....I could give many more examples but that was one I remembered very well.

Its easy to discriminate to be fair......for example, if someone applied for a sales job in my company and they turned up with tats up their neck and over their hands, I'd immediately think that was not someone I wanted to represent me.

Oh 100%, class discrimination for example is very real, being turned away from somewhere because they think you are not from the right class is discrimination whether people want to admit it or not.

[Rockape]

I have no doubt there is discrimination to black people in the UK. But I too have suffered discrimination, as have a lot of other people like me. I still recall being invited for an interview in a City firm, (having been a bit vague on my CV). Once they discovered I hadn't gone to the right school, they ushered me out as soon as was respectfully possible. That was 35 years ago and I doubt much has changed.

There is discrimination at every level of society, black, white, working class, middle class....I could give many more examples but that was one I remembered very well.

Its easy to discriminate to be fair......for example, if someone applied for a sales job in my company and they turned up with tats up their neck and over their hands, I'd immediately think that was not someone I wanted to represent me.

Oh 100%, class discrimination for example is very real, being turned away from somewhere because they think you are not from the right class is discrimination whether people want to admit it or not.

So when a black person is turned away from somewhere for not being the right class........what is that exactly?

[theHotHead]

I have no doubt there is discrimination to black people in the UK. But I too have suffered discrimination, as have a lot of other people like me. I still recall being invited for an interview in a City firm, (having been a bit vague on my CV). Once they discovered I hadn't gone to the right school, they ushered me out as soon as was respectfully possible. That was 35 years ago and I doubt much has changed.

There is discrimination at every level of society, black, white, working class, middle class....I could give many more examples but that was one I remembered very well.

Its easy to discriminate to be fair......for example, if someone applied for a sales job in my company and they turned up with tats up their neck and over their hands, I'd immediately think that was not someone I wanted to represent me.

Oh 100%, class discrimination for example is very real, being turned away from somewhere because they think you are not from the right class is discrimination whether people want to admit it or not.

So when a black person is turned away from somewhere for not being the right class........what is that exactly?

He is not the right class. A black person going to a black party who does not look right, i.e. more thuggish looking than suave will be turned away because of class. If I go to a club and am dressed the same way as a white guy and he is allowed in but I am not because I "don't look right", that would be down to race. If we both got turned away then it would be the whole class thing. Some venues get more intimidated by groups of black men than they do groups of white men. For example, you don't really see black guys in England puking on the roadside or stumbling about the place drunk, its mostly white people that do that. So I think bouncers/door people see a group of white guys and think the most that might happen is having to throw one or a few of them out for getting too drunk. But if a group of black guys end up getting into aggro something bad will happen.

There is a reason why the popular black music at the time struggle to get venues. I remember when clubs started to push back on Reggae nights, hip hop had its troubles, then it was jungle that started to get a bad name, then when the bad boys got into UK garage it was garage events that suffered. Then grime had its issues with venues. There is also a reason that some black people themselves say f**k going out to black events cos they know there will inevitably be some drama there.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

PRSS are you seriously telling me you think the vast majority of protestors are BLM, ANTIFA, Left Wing extremists, as opposed to the vast majority of people being blacks and whites fed up with the racially biased aggression toward black people alongside a minority that are BLM, ANTIFA and left wing extremists ?

What I said was that there are some reasonable protesters, but the vast majority at this point have agendas that have nothing to do with George Floyd's death. I see them in our University town, the same activists who protest and write endless streams of letters to the editor about GWB, climate, Trump this and that are certainly concerned about race related problems but they intertwine the issues into political stances rather than addressing solutions. I am saying the ones who are tearing down statues and demanding police be disbanded are not all members of BLM or ANTIFA, but they are doing the dirty work for them. That is not democracy, that is mob rule...and as football supporters we all understand mob dynamics.

I know people that have gone to the marches in London, none of them are BLM, they are marching to show support and nothing more. Interestingly, a good friend of mine practices (or used to) martial arts with the group of black guys that rescued that white EDL guy that was famously captured in the photo recently. Apparently they only went to the march because they knew the EDL were going to try to be aggressive against the BLM protestors and went to "protect" whoever they needed to. So this blanket assignment that everyone marching is a Left wing nut[b] BLM agitator is nonsense.[/b]

Good for them and your mate.

I have not made that claim, as I have pointed out the agitators get the mob to act for them, but after weeks now the point has been made about Floyd. If the violence was really about "racial"justice, it will not do anything but embolden the EDL and others to become more active and thus more relevant. But at least here in the US it is not about racial justice, it is anarchy. I have not followed the marches in the UK much, but I suspect they do not resemble those in the US at this point.

Look, I am not against peaceful protests nor equality obviously, but I am more interested in solutions and that requires serious inflection and investigation to find the core problems. That requires unity, and blaming one race for problems faced by another decades or centuries ago is beyond counter productive. These "protests" solve nothing at this point. The violence ensures that and I feel that it plays into the extremists hands.

Just trying to present a reasoned opinion without the emotion that is attached to the subject...though I will admit to being pissed off as can be when I see the Anarchists and Marxists trying to dismantle democratic systems that work if allowed to for everyone.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

I have no doubt there is discrimination to black people in the UK. But I too have suffered discrimination, as have a lot of other people like me. I still recall being invited for an interview in a City firm, (having been a bit vague on my CV). Once they discovered I hadn't gone to the right school, they ushered me out as soon as was respectfully possible. That was 35 years ago and I doubt much has changed.

There is discrimination at every level of society, black, white, working class, middle class....I could give many more examples but that was one I remembered very well.

Its easy to discriminate to be fair......for example, if someone applied for a sales job in my company and they turned up with tats up their neck and over their hands, I'd immediately think that was not someone I wanted to represent me.

Oh 100%, class discrimination for example is very real, being turned away from somewhere because they think you are not from the right class is discrimination whether people want to admit it or not.

So when a black person is turned away from somewhere for not being the right class........what is that exactly?

He is not the right class. A black person going to a black party who does not look right, i.e. more thuggish looking than suave will be turned away because of class. If I go to a club and am dressed the same way as a white guy and he is allowed in but I am not because I "don't look right", that would be down to race. If we both got turned away then it would be the whole class thing. Some venues get more intimidated by groups of black men than they do groups of white men. For example,[b] you don't really see black guys in England puking on the roadside or stumbling about the place drunk, its mostly white people that do that. [/b]So I think bouncers/door people see a group of white guys and think the most that might happen is having to throw one or a few of them out for getting too drunk. But if a group of black guys end up getting into aggro something bad will happen.

There is a reason why the popular black music at the time struggle to get venues. I remember when clubs started to push back on Reggae nights, hip hop had its troubles, then it was jungle that started to get a bad name, then when the bad boys got into UK garage it was garage events that suffered. Then grime had its issues with venues. There is also a reason that some black people themselves say f**k going out to black events cos they know there will inevitably be some drama there.

You nailed that one! Mostly drunk white slags! I always wonder WTF they think the next day...then the next Friday night they are back at it.

How prevalent is that sort of racial profiling in England now?

[DiamondGooner]

Out and out, what I don't like about BLM and these protests is that the excuse is "Because I'm black".

Firstly they make everything about colour and it isn't, secondly they act like any bias or racism they recieve doesn't happen to anyone else but them, thirdly I think its a bit cheeky to go to any country and be 2-3 generations in and turn around and trash the nations history, the very nation you've obviously chosen to move your family to, why, because that history allowed England to become what it is today opportunity and freedom wise.

In America they have half a point, Police abuse is terrible in America and bad police do seem to ready to abuse black civilians, but wtf are they moaning about in England I don't know?

The real problem is cultural and class, people old enough have seen it in England with the white working class, remember the riots against Thatcher?

Rich people will always discriminate against someone, you don't need to be black for that.

............. in fact I wouldn't mind HH or anyone from a black persons perspective, tell me what the BLM marches in the UK are actually about? because to me it looks likes pure bandwagoning on an American problem not a UK one.

[Phil71]

After years and years of educational campaigns and changes to the law to try to prevent people of all colours from having conscious or sub-conscious racial prejudice of one sort or another, some people think it's still a problem.

Is there anything more that can be done about it, or should it just be accepted as part of life?

[DiamondGooner]

After years and years of educational campaigns and changes to the law to try to prevent people of all colours from having conscious or sub-conscious racial prejudice of one sort or another, some people think it's still a problem.

Is there anything more that can be done about it, or should it just be accepted as part of life?

Thing is Phil the world has seen this all before, this is not new and no it has its peaks and lows but its not going away.

Poor and uneducated will always riot and complain in a capitalist society because they're at the lower end of the financial and class ladder.

The only difference is today they're using "Its because I'm black" .......... although funnily enough half the protesters are flake hippy white kids who are life long protesters, whether its Veganism, Green economy or race, those same Antifia lot will be there.

In Europe alone things have been a lot worse in history, whether its religion "Protestants vs Catholics", class "Royal loyalists vs Parliamentarians", Worker parties and unionists vs the Establishment in the 70's.

If anything the violence was a lot worse in those scenarios.

[VCC]

The CCP secret police now working and set up in Hong Kong that's the end of that then.

[Yorkyblue]

In America they have half a point, Police abuse is terrible in America and bad police do seem to ready to abuse black civilians, but wtf are they moaning about in England I don't know?
.

I saw a video of protesters chanting 'hands up dont shoot' at our police who were fully armed with f***ing pepper spray. I think people forget where they are sometimes.

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

The CCP secret police now working and set up in Hong Kong that's the end of that then.

Watch out world.


What are the chances the Chinese are funding BLM and the other Marxist and Communist organizations? They sure come out the winners in all this.

Reports of them sterilizing or forcing birth control on Uighurs and other minorities.

[VCC]

The CCP secret police now working and set up in Hong Kong that's the end of that then.

Watch out world.


What are the chances the Chinese are funding BLM and the other Marxist and Communist organizations? They sure come out the winners in all this.

Reports of them sterilizing or forcing birth control on Uighurs and other minorities.

Biggest problem is everyone signing up to upgrades of their communication networks designed and built by china

[LMAO]

The CCP secret police now working and set up in Hong Kong that's the end of that then.

Watch out world.


What are the chances the Chinese are funding BLM and the other Marxist and Communist organizations? They sure come out the winners in all this.

Reports of them sterilizing or forcing birth control on Uighurs and other minorities.

Biggest problem is everyone signing up to upgrades of their communication networks designed and built by china

Europe is going to regret it if they go through with allowing Chinese 5G infrastructure.

At least Canada, Australia, and India are rejecting Chinese 5G infrastructure. And South Korea and Japan are building their own networks.

[theHotHead]

Prss to be honest now I don't think there is very much of it at all (racial profiling socially), I mean I have been all over the place to all sorts of events and I am always treated nicely. Sometimes you get the odd "door gestapo" with their clipboards on a power trip outside an exclusive club but I don't tend to go to those places much. I don't give them the satisfaction either, if I see them acting like pricks I just leave.

If I am at a nice place and see hoodrats enter I typically get dismayed, I don't like riff raff when I am out being classy. So I am guilty of being as class-ist as anyone else!