Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

[Power n Glory]

@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...

You're right. I'll be sure to refrain from that in the future, but who am I kidding it will happen again, I'm only human. Saying an argument is ignorant and pathetic is hardly the worst that IS said at this place, you've probably said worse if I care to look, but hey lets call me out for it. FFS!!

I probably have but I try not to go out of my way to antagonize when it's just a difference of opinion and no personal digs have been thrown my way.

It looks like you are trolling and that's the thing we have complained about on this forum.

Trolling? Seriously? Come on dude. I'm frustrated with the ignorance and agendas like you are. I called someones ARGUMENT ignorant and pathetic. I didn't even call them a name. Now I agree that doesn't make it right, but it's hardly insulting someone directly. You're clutching at straws here buddy.

I actually wish more posters were like you. You don't seem to have an agenda and your post for the most part are logical and reasonable. But me trolling? Ha! No I'm calling out horrible arguments that make no sense. That's all I ever do on here really. I don't care about agendas or sides, or Emery this or Arteta that, or Ozil or none of that shit. If your argument is stupid, then I'm going to point it out. Yes, I can do it in a less condescending way, but like I said, I'm human, and a bit frustrated by this place at times. Please forgive me.

Trolling might be a strong word but I mean it seems like you're poking for a reaction. I'm far from perfect and I get frustrated by what is sometimes written but I don't think this one has gotten out of hand.

[StLGooner]

@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...

You're right. I'll be sure to refrain from that in the future, but who am I kidding it will happen again, I'm only human. Saying an argument is ignorant and pathetic is hardly the worst that IS said at this place, you've probably said worse if I care to look, but hey lets call me out for it. FFS!!

I probably have but I try not to go out of my way to antagonize when it's just a difference of opinion and no personal digs have been thrown my way.

It looks like you are trolling and that's the thing we have complained about on this forum.

Trolling? Seriously? Come on dude. I'm frustrated with the ignorance and agendas like you are. I called someones ARGUMENT ignorant and pathetic. I didn't even call them a name. Now I agree that doesn't make it right, but it's hardly insulting someone directly. You're clutching at straws here buddy.

I actually wish more posters were like you. You don't seem to have an agenda and your post for the most part are logical and reasonable. But me trolling? Ha! No I'm calling out horrible arguments that make no sense. That's all I ever do on here really. I don't care about agendas or sides, or Emery this or Arteta that, or Ozil or none of that shit. If your argument is stupid, then I'm going to point it out. Yes, I can do it in a less condescending way, but like I said, I'm human, and a bit frustrated by this place at times. Please forgive me.

Trolling might be a strong word but I mean it seems like you're poking for a reaction. I'm far from perfect and I get frustrated by what is sometimes written but I don't think this one has gotten out of hand.

I'm honestly not. In fact, I refrain from posting many times (as you may notice I go missing for a bit at times) just so I don't get a reaction. I actually hate arguing, which probably leads to my frustration. But TA isn't the type to respond in a negative way anyway. He's always pretty cordial. So sorry TA, I just don't think your argument about the transfer window is a good one. Ha!

[VCC]

It's a non argument currently
Historically no argument as Arteta has no history
Currently all three managers started in a similar possition with current clubs.
I actually thought Arteta would have got the Everton job but hey they were looking higher (board) than we were.
Cant argue with the stats on this one, for Arteta i hope this runoff form has not been the new manager bounce, if so we could be in trouble.
Mourinho has very carefully picked himself an opportunity a club with CL income a steady performer for several years and an new stadium with new income ( let's face it Arsenal has never utilized the benefit of our stadium) .
Ancelotti I feel has done the best so far but Everton will not be able to sustain what is needed to carry on financially
I really dont know how Arteta is going to turn out but I feel we are at that crossroads now, we have played some games of late that realistically a team with top four ability should beat, if we start getting beaten in a run of games I can see us falling apart.hope not

[LMAO]

I wouldn't say he's failing miserably but he's a loss away from it looking like a disaster. It's in the balance and I think if we start winning and playing well after this break the optimistim will come back.

Agree.

This season is currently at a crossroads. If we beat Newcastle, I think we push on. If we draw or lose, it'll be more of the same.

[Marsbar100]

Ancelotti lost to liverpools kids, arteta would have been villafied if he done that.

[Ach]

Ancelotti lost to liverpools kids, arteta would have been villafied if he done that.

in the cup. In a match where Everton dominated the first half but couldn't sustain the level ancelotti required to finish off the job but as we've seen they have improved. We have not.

[Salibatelli]

I'll be honest, the FA Cup is a nice day out but that's about it these days, good cup to win as well as something else but as a standalone trophy it's lost a lot of it's shine.

I'd happily ditch the FA Cup for the EL a European trophy which has a CL spot at the end of it (and more money for us to spend in the summer you'd think).

If you win the league or another trophy then fine the FA Cup is a nice addition, but on it's own it doesn't make a bad season good.

[theHotHead]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

[Power n Glory]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

What's the actual evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal?

[Salibatelli]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

Where's the evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal? Yes things weren't great but that's because results were poor nothing more, now we've got a new manager it seems all good again, until we start losing anyway.

[Salibatelli]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

What's the actual evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal?

Let's be honest there isn't any, we were going through a tough time so it's normal to have players saying things and not being happy, when it goes wrong for a manager that's the kind of thing that happens.

There's nothing toxic at all, we don't have players kicking off going on strike because they want to leave or saying they want the manager out, if anything it was worse at Spurs with Vertonghen, Eriksen and Alderweireld wanting to leave and Pochettino not seeing eye to eye wtith the owner and the club spending nothing at all, but even that has resolved itself now.

[Power n Glory]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

What's the actual evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal?

Let's be honest there isn't any, we were going through a tough time so it's normal to have players saying things and not being happy, when it goes wrong for a manager that's the kind of thing that happens.

There's nothing toxic at all, we don't have players kicking off going on strike because they want to leave or saying they want the manager out, if anything it was worse at Spurs with Vertonghen, Eriksen and Alderweireld wanting to leave and Pochettino not seeing eye to eye wtith the owner and the club spending nothing at all, but even that has resolved itself now.

If there were anything toxic going on behind the scenes for Spurs, Everton or Arsenal, there is no real evidence and nothing we're really privy too. The real details come out years later in books if it's really bad it spills out into the press and statements are made. Everything else is just speculation and we really don't know what the heck was going on at Arsenal under Emery so it's impossible to compare to other clubs.

The evidence comes back to the football. Despite playing rubbish, we still held on to 5th whilst Spurs and Everton were way down the table. Emery didn't even see the sack coming. The results fell off the quick and Raul was forced to act despite being on the verge of offering Emery a new contract.

[Salibatelli]

If there were anything toxic going on behind the scenes for Spurs, Everton or Arsenal, there is no real evidence and nothing we're really privy too. The real details come out years later in books if it's really bad it spills out into the press and statements are made. Everything else is just speculation and we really don't know what the heck was going on at Arsenal under Emery so it's impossible to compare to other clubs.

The evidence comes back to the football. Despite playing rubbish, we still held on to 5th whilst Spurs and Everton were way down the table. Emery didn't even see the sack coming. The results fell off the quick and Raul was forced to act despite being on the verge of offering Emery a new contract.

Pretty much, I'm not convinced there's anything toxic at any of those clubs, just a poor run of results that led to players/fans not being happy, when you bring a new manager in that all disappears unless that manager continues to get bad results.

[theHotHead]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

What's the actual evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/football/2019/11/04/arsenal-face-winter-discontent-pitch-toxic-mixture-issues/
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/jaded-arsenal-fans-warn-board-over-toxic-atmosphere-vmjrg0hm6
https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2019/dec/29/arsenal-frailties-chelsea-defeat-mikel-arteta
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/50602948

Reports of splits within the squad:
https://metro.co.uk/2019/10/28/arsenal-squad-divided-unai-emerys-treatment-mesut-ozil-nicolas-pepe-11000868/
https://www.teamtalk.com/news/details-revealed-of-why-arsenal-players-are-split-over-aubameyang
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/hector-bellerin-admits-arsenal-dressing-20939206

So in the dressing room we had drama, off the pitch there is drama with the fans and also on the pitch too:
https://www.football.london/arsenal-fc/news/sanllehi-emery-lacazette-arsenal-sack-17312224

[theHotHead]

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.

Provide the evidence that either Spurs or Everton were in turmoil. The situation with the manager had been that way for a while, not just this season. Last season (or was it the season before) Spurs didn't buy anyone in the summer window, they still managed to get to the CL final, Poch has been making little comments for a couple of seasons at least!!

Everton were underperforming having had big investment in the past few years, no toxic environment for the manager and players though.

What's the actual evidence that there was a toxic environment at Arsenal?

Let's be honest there isn't any, we were going through a tough time so it's normal to have players saying things and not being happy, when it goes wrong for a manager that's the kind of thing that happens.

There's nothing toxic at all, we don't have players kicking off going on strike because they want to leave or saying they want the manager out, if anything it was worse at Spurs with Vertonghen, Eriksen and Alderweireld wanting to leave and Pochettino not seeing eye to eye wtith the owner and the club spending nothing at all, but even that has resolved itself now.

Mate you have obviously never been to an Arsenal game if you say the atmosphere at Arsenal wasn't toxic when Emery was sacked. Says it all really.