The Players : Are they good enough?

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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Marsbar100 » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:17 pm

Liverpool, spurs and city have a much better squad. We should be bale to compete with the rest.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Santi » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:19 pm

jayramfootball wrote:Leno - Yes
Martinez - No
Macey - Maybe

Bellerin - Yes
Tierney - Yes
Sokratis - Maybe
Holding - Yes
Mustafi - No
Chambers - No
Luiz - Yes
Mavropanos - No
Kolasinac - No

Ceballos - Maybe
Ozil - Yes
Torriera - Yes
Maitland Niles - No
Willock - Yes
Guendouzi - Yes
Smith-Rowe - Maybe
Xhaka - No

Lacazette - Yes
Aubamayang - Yes
Pepe - Maybe
Nelson - Maybe
Martinelli - Yes
Saka - Maybe


Done mine with top 4 as our aim, given for the next two years that’s all it should be. We can probably get away with Martinez as a backup keeper but in my view even for top 4 we need:

1 starting CB
1 starting CM

With another CM and CB to replace some of the no’s with better supporting quality. I think between Pepe, martinelli and Özil we have enough for RW to get top 4.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Santi » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:24 pm

Marsbar100 wrote:Liverpool, spurs and city have a much better squad. We should be bale to compete with the rest.



The top 4 writes itself in terms of team quality

Liverpool
City
Spurs
Leicester

But given the easier fixture list and respective starts it should end up with Spurs and Leicester swapping. Yes Chelsea’s squad is nowhere near the same level and they are well over performing.

For us to get top 4 this year is almost impossible, we need Spurs to keep dropping points and us to go on a ridiculous run that overhauls both them and the gap we’ve let Chelsea have.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby elkanofan » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:32 pm

LMAO wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:Good enough for what first of all?

They're good enough to battle for a CL spot. Yes!


I've based my assessment on being good enough to seriously compete for the title.


Oh ok, so to compete for the title then no, the squad as a whole isn't good enough, but then that doesn't really make it fair judging each individual player. Any of those players could be on a title winning team, but you have to have the supporting players like for any team sport.

But as far as competing for 4th at least, yes, I think we have a good enough squad for that.


Incoming 47 paragraphs from Elk telling you you're wrong and we're lucky to be mid-table :grin:
Why did it take you all so long to notice this squad is shit is what makes me laugh.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby aniym » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:41 pm

I feel like Guendouzi loses possession far too much for a player in such a critical position. Tons of talent of course, but his giveaways, when they happen are extremely costly.

Bellerin isn't available frequently enough for me to comment on his defensive abilities after his injury. He looks OK going forward, which is a relief, but given the state of our defense, maybe that's not what we need from him at this time.

I agree with what's been said about the rest of the players.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:00 pm

Too early for this. We need to see what Freddie can do with this squad and if he doesn't get the job it's a case of waiting again to see what the new manager can do.

Nobody would have said Leicester City was a top 4 candidate over the summer. A good manager can make a world of difference.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby jayramfootball » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:15 pm

Power n Glory wrote:Too early for this. We need to see what Freddie can do with this squad and if he doesn't get the job it's a case of waiting again to see what the new manager can do.

Nobody would have said Leicester City was a top 4 candidate over the summer. A good manager can make a world of difference.


To be honest I think it's the players that make the most difference.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:38 pm

Power n Glory wrote:Too early for this. We need to see what Freddie can do with this squad and if he doesn't get the job it's a case of waiting again to see what the new manager can do.

Nobody would have said Leicester City was a top 4 candidate over the summer. A good manager can make a world of difference.


Its not too early for this, its bang on time.

They've been hiding behind Unai since before Baku, the only players still doing there thing is Leno and Auba.

Wtf is everyone else doing? besides letting in goals, sulking, talking back to staff, not winning games.

These fkers have downed tools and got almost no criticism because everyones been focused on Unai, Emery is gone yet their still looking sorry as fk.

Right now Auba, Leno, Martinelli and Tierney are the only players i'd be scared to lose, the rest are a bunch of hype jobs and lost causes.

There's no way I'm going to let them push Freddie out in front to take the hits, I don't care if he has them playing a Triangle formation, I want to see some performances.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Pat Rice in Short Shorts » Tue Dec 03, 2019 12:50 am

The players have the skills but the side has no balance. Take just about anyone you rated and put them in a side just about any other place outside of Barca or Madrid and they make the grade.

Look at our front. Auba and Lacazette want to play as a front two. But then we have Pepe or Ozil to choose from and neither really does what the other can. So does Freddy or the next man ignore the central midfield? Play the diamond and leave the wings utterly exposed? It comes down to the system and making the bits all fit.

Holding is a stud in the making given how he was playing before the ACL went. Chambers is not a RB, he needs to be used as he was at Fulham in place of Xhaka. Luis just needs to go away.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:12 am

........... but they don't have the skill that's the problem.

Their final balls or ability to create chances sucks, Martinelli is a teenager and his final balls are better than our seniors.

Even Auba and Laca are having problems linking, Ozil's not doing much of anything either apart from a few cute moves.

We need an aggressive formation like Leicesters, wave after wave of attack because we're just not creating enough and are consistently getting done over by defences locking out the few and far between chances we try and in return getting clowned on the break because our CB's suck to high hell.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby FARM » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:34 am

Good thread, its about time the players got some blame, a lot of them are just not good enough, we over rate the players badly I feel.

Leno - Yes
Martinez - Maybe its hard to say because I have barely seen him play
Macey - Maybe its hard to say because I have barely seen him play

Bellerin - Yes
Tierney - Yes
Sokratis - No
Holding - Maybe, I think he has a lot in there, won;t write him off.
Mustafi - No
Chambers - No
Luiz - No
Mavropanos - No
Kolasinac - No

Ceballos - No
Ozil - Maybe
Torriera - No
Maitland Niles - No
Willock - Yes
Guendouzi - Yes
Smith-Rowe - Yes
Xhaka - No

Lacazette - Yes
Aubamayang - Yes
Pepe - No
Nelson - No
Martinelli - Yes
Saka - No
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:09 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Too early for this. We need to see what Freddie can do with this squad and if he doesn't get the job it's a case of waiting again to see what the new manager can do.

Nobody would have said Leicester City was a top 4 candidate over the summer. A good manager can make a world of difference.


To be honest I think it's the players that make the most difference.


With one training session, Freddie managed to get these players playing possession based football. We created more chances for an away game compared to what we managed under Emery. Again, that's just under one training session. We were comfortably playing the ball out from the back and bypassing the press and that's with Xhaka on the pitch. After 18 months of Emery, not once did we look that comfortable playing the ball out from deep that way.

Freddie will need some time and realistically, they are not going to buy a whole new squad in January. Because we're in limbo, our January transfer strategy is a bit of a mess. Players are key but we need to establish what the new manager can do and what he can't with this lot. We're coming out of a toxic management situation with Emery the dust needs to settle. We've seen how bad management can make Eden Hazard and Salah look bad. We've seen how poor management can have people overlook the talent of De Bruyne and allow such a player to leave. I'm sure the Board will allow more time before making sweeping changes.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:34 am

Power n Glory wrote:With one training session, Freddie managed to get these players playing possession based football. We created more chances for an away game compared to what we managed under Emery. Again, that's just under one training session. We were comfortably playing the ball out from the back and bypassing the press and that's with Xhaka on the pitch. After 18 months of Emery, not once did we look that comfortable playing the ball out from deep that way.

Freddie will need some time and realistically, they are not going to buy a whole new squad in January. Because we're in limbo, our January transfer strategy is a bit of a mess. Players are key but we need to establish what the new manager can do and what he can't with this lot. We're coming out of a toxic management situation with Emery the dust needs to settle. We've seen how bad management can make Eden Hazard and Salah look bad. We've seen how poor management can have people overlook the talent of De Bruyne and allow such a player to leave. I'm sure the Board will allow more time before making sweeping changes.


Holy crap - we scrapped a 2-2 draw with a team that is 99% getting relegated ... a team that had scored 2 and conceded 10 in their last three home games ... we allowed Norwich more shots on goal than any other team has in over a year, and that's an improvement?

Way to early for Freddy to get credit / blame but let's not pretend, against one of the weakest teams in the EPL that was a shocking performance. The hard work starts now let's not make any wild claims until at lest ten games in.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Dec 03, 2019 3:55 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:With one training session, Freddie managed to get these players playing possession based football. We created more chances for an away game compared to what we managed under Emery. Again, that's just under one training session. We were comfortably playing the ball out from the back and bypassing the press and that's with Xhaka on the pitch. After 18 months of Emery, not once did we look that comfortable playing the ball out from deep that way.

Freddie will need some time and realistically, they are not going to buy a whole new squad in January. Because we're in limbo, our January transfer strategy is a bit of a mess. Players are key but we need to establish what the new manager can do and what he can't with this lot. We're coming out of a toxic management situation with Emery the dust needs to settle. We've seen how bad management can make Eden Hazard and Salah look bad. We've seen how poor management can have people overlook the talent of De Bruyne and allow such a player to leave. I'm sure the Board will allow more time before making sweeping changes.


Holy crap - we scrapped a 2-2 draw with a team that is 99% getting relegated ... a team that had scored 2 and conceded 10 in their last three home games ... we allowed Norwich more shots on goal than any other team has in over a year, and that's an improvement?

Way to early for Freddy to get credit / blame but let's not pretend, against one of the weakest teams in the EPL that was a shocking performance. The hard work starts now let's not make any wild claims until at lest ten games in.


It wasn't a great performance and that's not an endorsement of Ljunberg either. It's way too early for that but the facts are there. We were better in possession and created more chances. Small margins for how far we have fallen but if we're able to change our style after one training session with a first time manager, maybe we could have a complete turn around with a more experienced manager that has a clear philosophy.

We couldn't play possession football under Emery and we couldn't play the ball out from the back. If we're able to consistently dominate possession and play out from the back under Freddie after a few weeks, it's a small improvement on Emery but it further proves the need for better coaching because Freddie is using the exact same tools that Unai had.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Dejan » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:25 am

Power n Glory wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:Too early for this. We need to see what Freddie can do with this squad and if he doesn't get the job it's a case of waiting again to see what the new manager can do.

Nobody would have said Leicester City was a top 4 candidate over the summer. A good manager can make a world of difference.


To be honest I think it's the players that make the most difference.


With one training session, Freddie managed to get these players playing possession based football. We created more chances for an away game compared to what we managed under Emery. Again, that's just under one training session. We were comfortably playing the ball out from the back and bypassing the press and that's with Xhaka on the pitch. After 18 months of Emery, not once did we look that comfortable playing the ball out from deep that way.

Freddie will need some time and realistically, they are not going to buy a whole new squad in January. Because we're in limbo, our January transfer strategy is a bit of a mess. Players are key but we need to establish what the new manager can do and what he can't with this lot. We're coming out of a toxic management situation with Emery the dust needs to settle. We've seen how bad management can make Eden Hazard and Salah look bad. We've seen how poor management can have people overlook the talent of De Bruyne and allow such a player to leave. I'm sure the Board will allow more time before making sweeping changes.
What?

We had 61% posession, a rate that we had many times and more this season. Its not like we created a shitload either. 4 out of 7 shot on target came from dead situations (penalties and corners)

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