The Wizard of Özil

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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:21 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
StLGooner wrote:From the article I just read on that stat. It looks like it was created to give credit and notice to good players on bad teams. So if a quality number 10 player was on a bad team, his teammates aren't going to bang in many of the chances he gives them, thus him not having great assist stats, which many teams look at I'd imagine. So it appears this stat was created to help in that regard.


If you watch the games where it says Ozil created some chances, you'd see what's counted. I have a hard time recalling games where Ozil has laid chances on a plate for players but they have fluffed the chance. I've watched games where he's been anonymous yet seen the stats after the game where it says he created 3 chances.


Just to start, I'm not arguing anything here, just stating why the stat was created from what I've read.


Well I know Auba and Laca missed some easy goals this season, I don't remember either who set them up for him, but I'm sure sometime during this season some assist were missed that could have been Ozils. Besides the point really though.


If you read the article I did, they give a pretty broad explanation of how they give the stat to a player. Which to me means it's kind of a flawed stat. I get what they were trying to do, but sometimes you can't put a statistic on a players performance, you just have to watch and see it with your own eyes and then decide. Also, sometimes even though a number 10 might not have a goal or assist, they still can have a great game controlling the midfield, not losing the ball, making great turns with it and decisions, but that will never show up on a stats sheet. And I think that is why they created this stat, to try and bring those type of games to every ones attention.


I hear you and just adding what I make of the stat and how it doesn't always tally with the games I watch.

But if a stat does not tally with what you watch you can't instantly dismiss it. We went through this with the "Ozil is lazy" argument, then figures released by the club I believe had Ozil somewhere in the top 5 of distance covered - but still haters argued he was lazy because "he looked it" or because he "didn't run back". How can you argue against a fact!


Ozil runs the distance, he just never puts his head or foot in.

Here's a stat I'd like to see: number of duels and tackles won in the attacking third.

I bet all of the other usual suspects like eriksen and Silva etc have significantly better stats than ozil.


Not sure we can know from recorded stats the position of the tackles, but it's true that Ozil ranks low for attacking midfielders on tackles per game... it's at 0.6. It's not much of a difference, though across all attacking midfielders. Silva is at 1.0, Erikssen at 1.3. Juan Mata is lower than Ozil at 0.5 and Eden Hazard is at 0.4 - both lower than Ozil. Also, Silva only started 2 games all season in an attacking midfield position, he played deeper this year for City.
If we look at total tackles from the AM position, Ozil had 12 all season, Erikssen 17, Hazard 11, Mahrez 11, Pogba 7....
Are you saying that if Ozil made 5 more tackles all season (to equal Erikseen) it would have made any significant difference?

Will Hughes at Watford made 2.5 per game. Do you think he would be a better option than Ozil?
Iwobi made 18 by the way - so a top player for us right?

The main problem with Ozil is that the fans and club seem to be demanding that he chases round the pitch tackling people. That is not his game. He's been pressured into playing a game that he is. frankly, rubbish at. He should be told to not worry about tackling or chasing back - but to simply find space and create.

If we really need a player who has the best balance (maybe in Europe) of creative play and tackling then we need to go out and buy James Maddison - before he heads off to City/Utd/Barca/Real.


But even under Wenger where he didn't have that sort of responsibility, he'd go missing and pull in similar underwhelming performances. I can accept he's not a defensive player and weak in that area but it's his attacking output and influence that he has on attack that I find underwhelming.


Ozil is the very model of a player who will make a good team better, but a shite team no better at all (and maybe worse).
He's not going control games in a team full of decidely average (being kind) players. He's not the kind of player who can drag a team to a win and never has been. Ozil performs very well when we are able to dominate games and can be the player to unlock a defenisive unit. Up against the better teams, with out first team quality? Not so much... actually not at all.

That's why we should sell him if we can. He's the icing on the cake, not the core ingredients. Right now we have icing around a pile a doghshit. It's not ever going to taste very nice.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jun 28, 2019 6:48 am

Jay thats actually one of the best explanations and descriptions about Ozil I have read. Sums him and our situation up accurately. Except for the pile of shit bit, I agree its not what it should be but don't agree it is that shit
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Jun 28, 2019 11:58 am

jayramfootball wrote:
Ozil is the very model of a player who will make a good team better, but a shite team no better at all (and maybe worse).
He's not going control games in a team full of decidely average (being kind) players. He's not the kind of player who can drag a team to a win and never has been. Ozil performs very well when we are able to dominate games and can be the player to unlock a defenisive unit. Up against the better teams, with out first team quality? Not so much... actually not at all.

That's why we should sell him if we can. He's the icing on the cake, not the core ingredients. Right now we have icing around a pile a doghshit. It's not ever going to taste very nice.


AKA a luxury player, which we've known for years now.

Ozil has spent more time here than at any other club, and yet he has never attempted to adapt his game to reflect that he doesn't have Ronaldo, Benzema or Muller to do the heavy lifting. That's his biggest failing for me.

People can throw out stats like "more assists than everyone but Messi" all they like, but Messi has been a one man team when Barca/Argentina needed him to be. Theres also the small matter of Messi having 600 goals to go along with his assists.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:44 pm

aniym wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Ozil is the very model of a player who will make a good team better, but a shite team no better at all (and maybe worse).
He's not going control games in a team full of decidely average (being kind) players. He's not the kind of player who can drag a team to a win and never has been. Ozil performs very well when we are able to dominate games and can be the player to unlock a defenisive unit. Up against the better teams, with out first team quality? Not so much... actually not at all.

That's why we should sell him if we can. He's the icing on the cake, not the core ingredients. Right now we have icing around a pile a doghshit. It's not ever going to taste very nice.


AKA a luxury player, which we've known for years now.

Ozil has spent more time here than at any other club, and yet he has never attempted to adapt his game to reflect that he doesn't have Ronaldo, Benzema or Muller to do the heavy lifting. That's his biggest failing for me.

People can throw out stats like "more assists than everyone but Messi" all they like, but Messi has been a one man team when Barca/Argentina needed him to be. Theres also the small matter of Messi having 600 goals to go along with his assists.


Why are you comparing Ozil to Messi?????
We all know that Ozil is not Messi and we also all know that Ozil is not a player that will win games on his own.
If we had better players, he'd shine in the team - because he is enormously talented.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Jun 28, 2019 10:55 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
aniym wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Ozil is the very model of a player who will make a good team better, but a shite team no better at all (and maybe worse).
He's not going control games in a team full of decidely average (being kind) players. He's not the kind of player who can drag a team to a win and never has been. Ozil performs very well when we are able to dominate games and can be the player to unlock a defenisive unit. Up against the better teams, with out first team quality? Not so much... actually not at all.

That's why we should sell him if we can. He's the icing on the cake, not the core ingredients. Right now we have icing around a pile a doghshit. It's not ever going to taste very nice.


AKA a luxury player, which we've known for years now.

Ozil has spent more time here than at any other club, and yet he has never attempted to adapt his game to reflect that he doesn't have Ronaldo, Benzema or Muller to do the heavy lifting. That's his biggest failing for me.

People can throw out stats like "more assists than everyone but Messi" all they like, but Messi has been a one man team when Barca/Argentina needed him to be. Theres also the small matter of Messi having 600 goals to go along with his assists.


Why are you comparing Ozil to Messi?????
We all know that Ozil is not Messi and we also all know that Ozil is not a player that will win games on his own.
If we had better players, he'd shine in the team - because he is enormously talented.



Because that's where the level of discourse on this thread is now:

Angelito wrote:
aniym wrote:You'd be laighed out of the room if you tried to discuss KDB, Coutinho, Eriksen or even Fabregas' performances with "chances created".


2nd most assists in the history of the game after one Lionel Messi.

What was that again?
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Nuggets » Sat Jun 29, 2019 7:43 am

Arsenal hatch plan to offload Mesut Ozil as Gunners table new proposal to clubs
ARSENAL boss Unai Emery has come up with a fresh plan to sell Mesut Ozil, as the Gunners offer the midfielder to teams in Turkey in a bid to get him off the wage bill.

That's the only place Ozil will go, let's hope his best man gives it the nod.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sat Jun 29, 2019 12:25 pm

The Turkish Top 3 clubs are all deeply in debt, the only one that might bite is Erdogan's Basekcehir, and that's for propaganda purposes only.

Which would be fine by me, cuz ain't no one buying Ozil for his football.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Nuggets » Sat Jun 29, 2019 2:07 pm

aniym wrote:The Turkish Top 3 clubs are all deeply in debt, the only one that might bite is Erdogan's Basekcehir, and that's for propaganda purposes only.

Which would be fine by me, cuz ain't no one buying Ozil for his football.


That would be acceptable, come to think of it any club would be acceptable. ;)
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Nuggets » Fri Jul 05, 2019 8:54 pm

Fenerbahce are weighing up a deal to bring Ozil away from the Emirates on loan.

Dogan reckons Ozil is even money, or just over, to join the Turkish club he has supported since childhood.

He said: “Fenerbahce president Ali Koc is working very hard to sign him.

“For his wages and loan fee, the club are trying to find the sponsors. They are working on it.

“I think it’s going very well. Right now, I can say the possibility is 50-51% positive.”

Please let it be so.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Sims » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:07 pm

fener are £500m in debt
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby swipe right » Fri Jul 05, 2019 9:16 pm

Nuggets wrote:Arsenal hatch plan to offload Mesut Ozil as Gunners table new proposal to clubs
ARSENAL boss Unai Emery has come up with a fresh plan to sell Mesut Ozil, as the Gunners offer the midfielder to teams in Turkey in a bid to get him off the wage bill.

That's the only place Ozil will go, let's hope his best man gives it the nod.

So Emery is running transfers at Arsenal? In before you say don’t blame emery for the shit we sign because he doesn’t control transfers.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Dejan » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:42 am

Nuggets wrote:Fenerbahce are weighing up a deal to bring Ozil away from the Emirates on loan.

Dogan reckons Ozil is even money, or just over, to join the Turkish club he has supported since childhood.

He said: “Fenerbahce president Ali Koc is working very hard to sign him.

“For his wages and loan fee, the club are trying to find the sponsors. They are working on it.

“I think it’s going very well. Right now, I can say the possibility is 50-51% positive.”

Please let it be so.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Zedie » Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:57 am

Only reason why I think theres a chance is that the Turkish nation would see this as a massive capture for them and Erdogan would f***ing love it if he finally got his boy back to Turkey.

On the flip side, apparently Erdogan doesn't like fener and vice versa, their owner doesn't pushes for the opposing political party or something along those lines..

Maybe it's a spite thing ie I'll sign your best buddy instead of you situation.

That or its simply complete bollocks.
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Sims » Sat Jul 06, 2019 10:14 am

Zedie wrote:Only reason why I think theres a chance is that the Turkish nation would see this as a massive capture for them and Erdogan would f***ing love it if he finally got his boy back to Turkey.

On the flip side, apparently Erdogan doesn't like fener and vice versa, their owner doesn't pushes for the opposing political party or something along those lines..

Maybe it's a spite thing ie I'll sign your best buddy instead of you situation.

That or its simply complete bollocks.


Ergodan runs Bakeshir or however u spell it
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Re: Mesut Özil (10)

Postby Emeryates » Sat Jul 06, 2019 11:54 am

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