The Kroenke Problem

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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby Angelito » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:15 am

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
Zanatos3 wrote:Kroenke's negligence - [ Arsene Wengers decline - 8-2 , 6-0, (5-1)x3 from Bayern, etc etc ]

& now 100% Owner, Lifetime Negligence confirmed, the Only reason Arsenal are in Permanent Cyclic Peril :)

Unless theres a SERIOUS BOYCOTT by London Fans.

I suggest organizing popular ARSENAL DEDICATED PUBS, BARS...other sports places that Arsenal Families can attend IN LONDON (Kid friendly)

to watch all Arsenal matches for the 2019-20 Season.

It'll keep the money out of Kronke's pocket_Keep stadium seats visibly EMPTY at matches_when advertised & fans see the buzz

COLOSSEUM - Build it & they will come___Away from the stadium & join other Arsenal fans to watch matches & Support local Fan Businesses

Rather than Kronke's Business, which is Arsenal.


So our club that has for decades run on self-sustainability, long before Kroenke ever came along. now finds itself struggling. That's not due to Kroenke doing exactly what our owners have always done, remember Bracewell-Smith and Hill-Wood families never invested a dime, but rather because it was run into the ground by the Gazidis - Wonger axis of incompetence.

Whilst I would 100% agree Kroenke should have got rid of Gazidis and Wonger five years ago, that's the extent of his failure, no money in? show me a modern Arsenal owner who has ever put any money in ...

So your mind-boggling solution - to a club that relies on it's own resources - is to stop giving the club those resources, to cut of the very thing the club needs ... more income ...

BRILLIANT - LETS ALL MAKE THINGS WORSE

With a fan base seemingly composed of utter idiots, just maybe we are getting what we deserve ...


And should have better supported a manager (who delivered the invincibles, delivered CL football for 2 decades, has won many domestic trophies, has an attractive football philosophy, is well respected by countless players, and speaks multiple languages) during a time when shareholder financing was out of control and the stadium debt was still being paid off


This crime against our greatest manager and against our club shall never be forgotten.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 8:02 am

Angelito wrote:This crime against our greatest manager and against our club shall never be forgotten.


Give it a few more years and Wonger will be a God, the god who single-handedly built the Emirates (even though he didn't) - who has won more trophies than any other manager (even though he hasn't) who went a whole season winning every game (even though he didn't) ... who was about to win the Quadruple until he got sacked (even though he wasn't) ...

I reckon someone should write a book - how about you Angelito? call it "The Wonger Parallel Universe" ... should make a good fantasy read ....
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 9:28 am

Angelito wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
Zanatos3 wrote:Kroenke's negligence - [ Arsene Wengers decline - 8-2 , 6-0, (5-1)x3 from Bayern, etc etc ]

& now 100% Owner, Lifetime Negligence confirmed, the Only reason Arsenal are in Permanent Cyclic Peril :)

Unless theres a SERIOUS BOYCOTT by London Fans.

I suggest organizing popular ARSENAL DEDICATED PUBS, BARS...other sports places that Arsenal Families can attend IN LONDON (Kid friendly)

to watch all Arsenal matches for the 2019-20 Season.

It'll keep the money out of Kronke's pocket_Keep stadium seats visibly EMPTY at matches_when advertised & fans see the buzz

COLOSSEUM - Build it & they will come___Away from the stadium & join other Arsenal fans to watch matches & Support local Fan Businesses

Rather than Kronke's Business, which is Arsenal.


So our club that has for decades run on self-sustainability, long before Kroenke ever came along. now finds itself struggling. That's not due to Kroenke doing exactly what our owners have always done, remember Bracewell-Smith and Hill-Wood families never invested a dime, but rather because it was run into the ground by the Gazidis - Wonger axis of incompetence.

Whilst I would 100% agree Kroenke should have got rid of Gazidis and Wonger five years ago, that's the extent of his failure, no money in? show me a modern Arsenal owner who has ever put any money in ...

So your mind-boggling solution - to a club that relies on it's own resources - is to stop giving the club those resources, to cut of the very thing the club needs ... more income ...

BRILLIANT - LETS ALL MAKE THINGS WORSE

With a fan base seemingly composed of utter idiots, just maybe we are getting what we deserve ...


And should have better supported a manager (who delivered the invincibles, delivered CL football for 2 decades, has won many domestic trophies, has an attractive football philosophy, is well respected by countless players, and speaks multiple languages) during a time when shareholder financing was out of control and the stadium debt was still being paid off


This crime against our greatest manager and against our club shall never be forgotten.


Wenger:
- Inherited one of the best defences ever to be assembled in world football history.
- Inherited arguably the most talented footballer of all time
- Was a French manager at the time of a golden age in French football and used his contacts to bring in some of those players
- Underperformed with one of the best squads in PL history, never winning back to back titles and never winning a European trophy
- When all the players he didn't buy had left and his French options dried up, utterly screwed up in the transfer market
- decimated the character of the team
- spiralled down into the most boring football seen in the PL
- created the biggest bunch of bottlers in PL history
- became clear he didn't have a grasp of the football basics
- went a decade further than he should have failing year after year

Kroenke:
- bought the club and has invested hundred of millions in players

I don't think we ever had a 'Kroenke' problem. We had a Wenger problem and it ruined our club from top to bottom.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 11:15 am

EK and Jayram, what are you guys on about? The cause of your dissatisfaction is controlled and was encouraged by the man you guys don’t seem to think is a problem.

EliteKiller wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Still a billionaire though and he has missed a massive opportunity to not only improve his portfolio but set us up to be one of the best clubs in the world.


Paid 500m for the club now worth 2,500m .... not sure what the massive missed opportunity was ... even with a Title and a CL or two the value of the club wouldn't be all that much higher



City and Chelsea were once irrelevant now look at where they are. How you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me. And even if that path is not your cup of tea, Liverpool’s path could have been achieved by us much earlier if the board and owner were more proactive. Again, how you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me.


EliteKiller wrote:- Chelsea have 3 European Trophies and 3 EPL titles in the last decade still worth less than us ... Spuds have won feck all in years and soon they will be worth the same as us ....


If we continue on our trajectory and with good management at Chelsea, they will eventually become worth more than us if they aren’t already. I won’t check but I bet Chelsea were nowhere near us in the past in terms of club value. In recent years they have closed that gap significantly all because their owner pumped massive amount of funds into their club.Heck, you even said yourself that Sp*rs will be worth the same as us soon so why not Chelsea. You’ve contradicted yourself here.

EliteKiller wrote:Spending Man City level billions to get bugger all additional financial return at Arsenal? ... apart from the ego boost why would a billionaire (or anyone else) do that?


Spending billions to get bugger all returns? Ask City shareholders what returns they believe they’ll be making in the future. They’ve set their club up to dominate England if not Europe for the long term and only incompetent management will prevent them from achieving that objective.

jayramfootball wrote:
Kroenke:
- bought the club and has invested hundred of millions in players

I don't think we ever had a 'Kroenke' problem. We had a Wenger problem and it ruined our club from top to bottom.


You realize you’re defending a man who doesn’t care enough about you or your club, right?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 12:34 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:.



City and Chelsea were once irrelevant now look at where they are. How you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me. And even if that path is not your cup of tea, Liverpool’s path could have been achieved by us much earlier if the board and owner were more proactive. Again, how you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me.


Where's Kroenke's missed opportunity? 500m to 2,500m that was his opportunity ... City are backed by a country who are in it for the PR, Kroenke isn't. Abramovitch was laundering money, it's why he's now left the UK, as far as I know Kroenke isn't ... Kroenke is not a fan, he's an owner, same applies at 90% of all top clubs. As for Liverpool in the last five years they've spent net 80m LESS on transfers than we have .... sure we could have matched them but we'd not have signed Auba or Lacca.


If we continue on our trajectory and with good management at Chelsea, they will eventually become worth more than us if they aren’t already. I won’t check but I bet Chelsea were nowhere near us in the past in terms of club value. In recent years they have closed that gap significantly all because their owner pumped massive amount of funds into their club.Heck, you even said yourself that Sp*rs will be worth the same as us soon so why not Chelsea. You’ve contradicted yourself here.


If I spend a billion quid and my asset value goes up by 800m have I gained .... you think that makes Abro smart, but it doesn't ... Joe Lewis is the smart one spent 50m borrowed 900m now has assets worth 1,500m ... his personal investment over the last 10 years feck all squared.


Spending billions to get bugger all returns? Ask City shareholders what returns they believe they’ll be making in the future. They’ve set their club up to dominate England if not Europe for the long term and only incompetent management will prevent them from achieving that objective.


City have had 1,400m pumped into their business, they make 50m a year profit ... so how long will the City shareholders need to wait?

You realize you’re defending a man who doesn’t care enough about you or your club, right?


I'm not defending or attacking Kroenke, just pointing out that he has feck all to do with the running of our club ... we are still run entirely on the money we make, just as we have done for the last 50 years, that's long before Kroenke ever came aboard ....

Blaming Kroenke is like blaming the Waltons when Wallmart run out of milk ... but if it that makes you happy go right ahead.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:38 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:.



City and Chelsea were once irrelevant now look at where they are. How you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me. And even if that path is not your cup of tea, Liverpool’s path could have been achieved by us much earlier if the board and owner were more proactive. Again, how you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me.


Where's Kroenke's missed opportunity? 500m to 2,500m that was his opportunity ... City are backed by a country who are in it for the PR, Kroenke isn't. Abramovitch was laundering money, it's why he's now left the UK, as far as I know Kroenke isn't ... Kroenke is not a fan, he's an owner, same applies at 90% of all top clubs. As for Liverpool in the last five years they've spent net 80m LESS on transfers than we have .... sure we could have matched them but we'd not have signed Auba or Lacca.


1. 2,500m that could be much more is his missed opportunity.

2. Just because the intentions of City’s owners are wrong and the owner of Chelsea went about things the wrong way does not mean that the owner of Arsenal Football Club should follow suit. You can still transform your club the way Chelsea and City have done with other, more legitimate methods.

3. Kroenke’s not a fan? All the more reason he shouldn’t own the club. Who cares how other clubs are being operated. Arsenal should focus on themselves and do what’s best for them.

4. You’ve completely missed my point regarding Liverpool. You’re talking about transfers, but I’m talking about their overall success recently and our ownership’s failure to seize that opportunity when it was presented to them. If the board and/or owner weren’t willing to assist Wenger and could have seen the writing on the wall earlier, it could have been us who would be lifting a CL trophy by now, it could have been us with Klopp at the helm, and it could have been us with a better net spend. Blame Wenger all you want for damaging the club on the pitch, but it’s the board and owner who have damaged the club off it which is a far more serious offense imo.

EliteKiller wrote:
If we continue on our trajectory and with good management at Chelsea, they will eventually become worth more than us if they aren’t already. I won’t check but I bet Chelsea were nowhere near us in the past in terms of club value. In recent years they have closed that gap significantly all because their owner pumped massive amount of funds into their club.Heck, you even said yourself that Sp*rs will be worth the same as us soon so why not Chelsea. You’ve contradicted yourself here.


If I spend a billion quid and my asset value goes up by 800m have I gained .... you think that makes Abro smart, but it doesn't ... Joe Lewis is the smart one spent 50m borrowed 900m now has assets worth 1,500m ... his personal investment over the last 10 years feck all squared.


Maybe not in the short term but the 800m you’ve mentioned doesn’t stop growing. You’ve ignored the potential for that 800m to grow above and beyond the 1 billion invested which can be achieved with strict and smart oversight. Besides, I’ve clearly stated in my post that this path was one option for the board and Kroenke to take. I presented another. Neither option was taken until the damage was already done.

EliteKiller wrote:
Spending billions to get bugger all returns? Ask City shareholders what returns they believe they’ll be making in the future. They’ve set their club up to dominate England if not Europe for the long term and only incompetent management will prevent them from achieving that objective.


City have had 1,400m pumped into their business, they make 50m a year profit ... so how long will the City shareholders need to wait?


1. Maybe they’re billionaires who value the success of their club more than whatever return they may make. Would be lovely to have that type of owner running our club.
2. Has I have said earlier, their club is already set up to become one of the most valuable clubs in the world. If return on investment is what they’re after then all it takes is some sweet talk and one sale, and they would have profited on their investment

EliteKiller wrote:
You realize you’re defending a man who doesn’t care enough about you or your club, right?


I'm not defending or attacking Kroenke, just pointing out that he has feck all to do with the running of our club ... we are still run entirely on the money we make, just as we have done for the last 50 years, that's long before Kroenke ever came aboard ....

Blaming Kroenke is like blaming the Waltons when Wallmart run out of milk ... but if it that makes you happy go right ahead.


I was responding to Jayram here but to reply to your comment: if a shareholder has at least 51% of shares, then in general that person basically controls the organization. Other shareholders that have 1% or 49% really doesn’t matter. The simple fact is that the shareholder who controls at least 51% of the shares is able to run the organization as he or she sees fit. So based on this, yes. Yes, Kroenke has all to do with the running of our club. Kroenke takes some if not most of the blame for where we find ourselves today.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:00 pm

We're not going to agree - Arsenal have been self sustaining for 50 years or more, as indeed have the vast majority of professional football clubs - There is no requirement (in fact FFP rules now prevents it) for owners to drop a billion pounds into a club ... would it be great? sure but then so would winning the lottery, doesn't mean I'm entitled to expect it ...

Just to make your day a bit better ... our draft accounts show a loss for the first time since 2002 ... so Kroenke will have no choice but to cover that, it's his loss after all ...
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby UFGN » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:16 pm

Fans, do your job

Be a fan

Cry me a river over whether or not a billionaire is turning a profit, whether that matters, whether I should care, or whether I should be reasonable about it.

Cry me a river of your best tears and see if I give a damn about any of it

I'm not an accountant. Its not my job to offer those who line up excuses as to why Arsenal should settle for scraps a shoulder to cry on.

Its my job to offer them a world of scorn and forceful advice regarding where they might like to go
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:21 pm

UFGN wrote:Fans, do your job

Be a fan

Cry me a river over whether or not a billionaire is turning a profit, whether that matters, whether I should care, or whether I should be reasonable about it.

Cry me a river of your best tears and see if I give a damn about any of it

I'm not an accountant. Its not my job to offer those who line up excuses as to why Arsenal should settle for scraps a shoulder to cry on.

Its my job to offer them a world of scorn and forceful advice regarding where they might like to go


Is that you agreeing that you don't care about owner's investment? or are you calling for a fan's boycott? or is it something more esoteric?
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby UFGN » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:31 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:Fans, do your job

Be a fan

Cry me a river over whether or not a billionaire is turning a profit, whether that matters, whether I should care, or whether I should be reasonable about it.

Cry me a river of your best tears and see if I give a damn about any of it

I'm not an accountant. Its not my job to offer those who line up excuses as to why Arsenal should settle for scraps a shoulder to cry on.

Its my job to offer them a world of scorn and forceful advice regarding where they might like to go


Is that you agreeing that you don't care about owner's investment? or are you calling for a fan's boycott? or is it something more esoteric?


Hay man look hes invested seven f***ing horses in the club. If he invests four pork pies and an ostrich into the club his investment might grow, but in the process of doing so he might end up with four less horses, or they might turn into cats. Its understandable from his POV

I mean that

Armchair accounts talking bollocks
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:38 pm

CrimsonGunner11 wrote:EK and Jayram, what are you guys on about? The cause of your dissatisfaction is controlled and was encouraged by the man you guys don’t seem to think is a problem.

EliteKiller wrote:
CrimsonGunner11 wrote:Still a billionaire though and he has missed a massive opportunity to not only improve his portfolio but set us up to be one of the best clubs in the world.


Paid 500m for the club now worth 2,500m .... not sure what the massive missed opportunity was ... even with a Title and a CL or two the value of the club wouldn't be all that much higher



City and Chelsea were once irrelevant now look at where they are. How you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me. And even if that path is not your cup of tea, Liverpool’s path could have been achieved by us much earlier if the board and owner were more proactive. Again, how you can’t see the missed opportunity is beyond me.


EliteKiller wrote:- Chelsea have 3 European Trophies and 3 EPL titles in the last decade still worth less than us ... Spuds have won feck all in years and soon they will be worth the same as us ....


If we continue on our trajectory and with good management at Chelsea, they will eventually become worth more than us if they aren’t already. I won’t check but I bet Chelsea were nowhere near us in the past in terms of club value. In recent years they have closed that gap significantly all because their owner pumped massive amount of funds into their club.Heck, you even said yourself that Sp*rs will be worth the same as us soon so why not Chelsea. You’ve contradicted yourself here.

EliteKiller wrote:Spending Man City level billions to get bugger all additional financial return at Arsenal? ... apart from the ego boost why would a billionaire (or anyone else) do that?


Spending billions to get bugger all returns? Ask City shareholders what returns they believe they’ll be making in the future. They’ve set their club up to dominate England if not Europe for the long term and only incompetent management will prevent them from achieving that objective.

jayramfootball wrote:
Kroenke:
- bought the club and has invested hundred of millions in players

I don't think we ever had a 'Kroenke' problem. We had a Wenger problem and it ruined our club from top to bottom.


You realize you’re defending a man who doesn’t care enough about you or your club, right?


I am not defending Kroenke - I don't like the man.
I am defending the truth.
Kroenke has spent millions of his own money investing in the team and facilities.
Our decline is due to the idiot we had managing the team.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby UFGN » Wed Jun 12, 2019 2:45 pm

Jayram its funny you say you're not defending Kroenke and then you go and do just that
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:15 pm

UFGN wrote:Jayram its funny you say you're not defending Kroenke and then you go and do just that


I guess if speaking the truth means defending an individual then so be it, but not the intent.
It's not really that difficult to grasp.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby StLGooner » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:17 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
UFGN wrote:Jayram its funny you say you're not defending Kroenke and then you go and do just that


I guess if speaking the truth means defending an individual then so be it, but not the intent.
It's not really that difficult to grasp.



You don't know the truth though, nor does anyone on this forum.
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Re: The Kroenke Problem

Postby jayramfootball » Wed Jun 12, 2019 3:20 pm

StLGooner wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
UFGN wrote:Jayram its funny you say you're not defending Kroenke and then you go and do just that


I guess if speaking the truth means defending an individual then so be it, but not the intent.
It's not really that difficult to grasp.



You don't know the truth though, nor does anyone on this forum.


Yeah, I do. It's all in the accounts. Kroenke has spent hundreds of millions on players.
We bought players like Xhaka for £40m, when for £10m less than that Spurs picked up Sissoko. That's not Kroenke's fault. That is piss poor management by the people, led by Wenger at the time, choosing players.
We are 3rd in the PL on net spend on players over the last 5 years and our wage bill is massive.

It's not reasonable to blame Kroenke for not providing the cash - he has.
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