British Politics

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Re: British Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Jan 10, 2019 3:22 am

UFGN wrote:It's hardly new nor especially notable that people on one side of a debate question a decision of the Speaker

For the benefit of our non British members, the Speaker is an MP but resigns from his Party after being elected. Bercow is originally a Tory

This particular Speaker has faced constant criticism from Tories, which is ultimately because he doesn't favour the Tories

It seems bias is expected and demanded when it suits, and perceived bias is raged against by exactly the same people if it's not in their favour

I'm not a fan of Bercow, but you simply can't question his knowledge of Parliament and procedure

The next Speaker by convention will be from Labour. Bring on Deputy Speaker Hoyle.... I might start watching Parliamentary debates if he gets the top job


Do you accept that he very clearly breached parliamentary procedure in a manner not seen by a Speaker for 148 years? He may indeed have a great working knowledge of Parliament and procedure, so breaking those procedures is all the more peculiar.

Whilst the Speaker may be an MP from any party, once appointed to the role of Speaker his job is to ensure and even hand and a strict adherence to procedures, until today that's something that Bercow (who like you I don't particularly like) has done very well ... that is until today.

You may consider Bercow as "a brave defender of the people's rights" I'm sure many in Remain will do, you may consider him the "devil incarnate" as I'm sure many Leave backers do ... but in the end you can no longer consider him a great defender of Parliament and procedure, he's driven a coach and horses through that position and will, maybe not today but certainly within a few weeks, be unceremoniously kicked out. MP's on all sides won't allow a maverick Speaker to grandstand in parliament, after all that's their job ... lol
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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:41 am

UFGN wrote:It's hardly new nor especially notable that people on one side of a debate question a decision of the Speaker

For the benefit of our non British members, the Speaker is an MP but resigns from his Party after being elected. Bercow is originally a Tory

This particular Speaker has faced constant criticism from Tories, which is ultimately because he doesn't favour the Tories

It seems bias is expected and demanded when it suits, and perceived bias is raged against by exactly the same people if it's not in their favour

I'm not a fan of Bercow, but you simply can't question his knowledge of Parliament and procedure

The next Speaker by convention will be from Labour. Bring on Deputy Speaker Hoyle.... I might start watching Parliamentary debates if he gets the top job


Au contrare, Labour breached that convention when they elected Michael Martin after Betty Boothroyd. It was more that he decided to interfere with the debate timetable which is supposed to be set by the government that has made people so angry, that is the one thing as a Speaker you just do not do because it does undermine your impartiality especially when the Parliamentary clerks have told you not to do it.

There is only one man I can think of as the next Speaker, someone who understands the sanctity of the office and is already an expert in parliamentary proceedure. One who the opposition would vote for just so they are no longer a thorn in their side.

I speak of Jacob Rees-Mogg and I hope he would bring back the wig and other traditions.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 am

EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:It's hardly new nor especially notable that people on one side of a debate question a decision of the Speaker

For the benefit of our non British members, the Speaker is an MP but resigns from his Party after being elected. Bercow is originally a Tory

This particular Speaker has faced constant criticism from Tories, which is ultimately because he doesn't favour the Tories

It seems bias is expected and demanded when it suits, and perceived bias is raged against by exactly the same people if it's not in their favour

I'm not a fan of Bercow, but you simply can't question his knowledge of Parliament and procedure

The next Speaker by convention will be from Labour. Bring on Deputy Speaker Hoyle.... I might start watching Parliamentary debates if he gets the top job


Do you accept that he very clearly breached parliamentary procedure in a manner not seen by a Speaker for 148 years? He may indeed have a great working knowledge of Parliament and procedure, so breaking those procedures is all the more peculiar.

Whilst the Speaker may be an MP from any party, once appointed to the role of Speaker his job is to ensure and even hand and a strict adherence to procedures, until today that's something that Bercow (who like you I don't particularly like) has done very well ... that is until today.

You may consider Bercow as "a brave defender of the people's rights" I'm sure many in Remain will do, you may consider him the "devil incarnate" as I'm sure many Leave backers do ... but in the end you can no longer consider him a great defender of Parliament and procedure, he's driven a coach and horses through that position and will, maybe not today but certainly within a few weeks, be unceremoniously kicked out. MP's on all sides won't allow a maverick Speaker to grandstand in parliament, after all that's their job ... lol


I consider him to be a speaker who is adapting the conventions of Parliament to work in the situation we're in. As has already happened with the government cancelling the Queen's Speech. Brexit has already run a coach and horses through Parliamentary process

There's a tight timetable.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Luzh 22 » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:00 pm

Corbyn calling for another gen-elec. Colour me surprised. What happens when he loses this one? :lol:


This is literally the worst house of commons I have ever seen, and at the time when the country is in a dire situation. You couldn't make it up.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:34 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:Corbyn calling for another gen-elec. Colour me surprised. What happens when he loses this one? :lol:


This is literally the worst house of commons I have ever seen, and at the time when the country is in a dire situation. You couldn't make it up.


If there is one, May won't make the same mistake as last time as she'll probably get it held in the Easter school holidays so all those students can't do their illegal voting twice tactics. Plus she'll attend any debates which cost her last time.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:35 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:Corbyn calling for another gen-elec. Colour me surprised. What happens when he loses this one? :lol:


This is literally the worst house of commons I have ever seen, and at the time when the country is in a dire situation. You couldn't make it up.


I'm all for another election IF it expediates the end of Corbyn. Get a decent Labour leader in and get Labour back to a winable position
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Re: British Politics

Postby EliteKiller » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:56 pm

UFGN wrote:I consider him to be a speaker who is adapting the conventions of Parliament to work in the situation we're in. As has already happened with the government cancelling the Queen's Speech. Brexit has already run a coach and horses through Parliamentary process

There's a tight timetable.


Get what you're saying but doesn't that just open the door to anarchy? Any future Speaker can now site "adapting the conventions of Parliament" to do anything they want. The reason you have procedures is to prevent just this sort of lone wolf action, that's the case whether you believe it's justified or not.
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Thu Jan 10, 2019 2:01 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:I consider him to be a speaker who is adapting the conventions of Parliament to work in the situation we're in. As has already happened with the government cancelling the Queen's Speech. Brexit has already run a coach and horses through Parliamentary process

There's a tight timetable.


Get what you're saying but doesn't that just open the door to anarchy? Any future Speaker can now site "adapting the conventions of Parliament" to do anything they want. The reason you have procedures is to prevent just this sort of lone wolf action, that's the case whether you believe it's justified or not.


However the government were seeking to use (or some would say abuse) parliamentary process, by using said process to run the thing down to the wire

Therefore you could take the view that his decision is in defence of parliamentary integrity, rather than being against it
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Thu Jan 10, 2019 11:54 pm

UFGN wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
UFGN wrote:I consider him to be a speaker who is adapting the conventions of Parliament to work in the situation we're in. As has already happened with the government cancelling the Queen's Speech. Brexit has already run a coach and horses through Parliamentary process

There's a tight timetable.


Get what you're saying but doesn't that just open the door to anarchy? Any future Speaker can now site "adapting the conventions of Parliament" to do anything they want. The reason you have procedures is to prevent just this sort of lone wolf action, that's the case whether you believe it's justified or not.


However the government were seeking to use (or some would say abuse) parliamentary process, by using said process to run the thing down to the wire

Therefore you could take the view that his decision is in defence of parliamentary integrity, rather than being against it


............ which was my initial point.

They're all fking this up, what does it matter if Bercow throws more wood on the fire?

The sooner we get next weeks "vote" out of the way the better, that tw*t May has pointlessly (as we're about to find out) wasted a month of everyones time.

Her deal is going to bomb, and hard.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:45 am

Whomever was running the show was never going to have a chance of getting any sort of deal approved.

You have people who want something near to a hard brexit, and you have people who want no brexit. Something in the middle was never going to win.

Any sort of brexit is never going to win. At least no sort of brexit that the people who voted for it wanted. Parliament will make sure of that.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Rockape » Fri Jan 11, 2019 9:53 am

Yup....its a total mess but I don't think many people are blaming May, she's in an utterly no win situation as would anyone else that took up the baton.

I think its just a joke that all Corbyn can say is that we need another Gen Election so labour can renegotiate with the EU. No reasons why this might be achieved, so just a shabby attempt to grab power when the Country least needs it. Yeah JC....the British people have got total faith in you to achieve something better!
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Re: British Politics

Postby UFGN » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:31 am

Ultimately it's brexit itself that is the buggest problem, not the negotiations

Brexiteers refused to accept and still refuse to accept, that the EU were always going to defend their own position vigorously

All that brain dead crap about German cars... Germany is only one member state.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Royal Gooner » Fri Jan 11, 2019 10:47 am

Rockape wrote:Yup....its a total mess but I don't think many people are blaming May, she's in an utterly no win situation as would anyone else that took up the baton.

I think its just a joke that all Corbyn can say is that we need another Gen Election so labour can renegotiate with the EU. No reasons why this might be achieved, so just a shabby attempt to grab power when the Country least needs it. Yeah JC....the British people have got total faith in you to achieve something better!


It is stupid especially when the EU, being notoriously inflexible, have already said no renegotiation and Brexit has been confirmed by Parliament in statute law so Crazy Comrade Corbyn is just misleading people, just like he did to those students in the last election (though still seems to be with this whole free bus travel for under 25s).
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Re: British Politics

Postby DiamondGooner » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:46 am

UFGN wrote:Ultimately it's brexit itself that is the buggest problem, not the negotiations

Brexiteers refused to accept and still refuse to accept, that the EU were always going to defend their own position vigorously

All that brain dead crap about German cars... Germany is only one member state.


But Germany and France are the most influential and that bit about cars is just simplifying a general issue that the EU sells to us, it is not and still isn't in their interest to impose tariffs on us because if we do it in return their products will lose their competitive edge price wise.
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Re: British Politics

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:15 am

Well... as Rod Stewart once sang, Tonight's the Night. But for Theresa I don't think it's gonna be alright.
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