Developing players - a myth

[elkanofan]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Kids are being paid too much too young, thats the issue. There are no genuine special wonderkids apart from Donnarumma and Renato Sanches in a way under the age of 20.

Wonderkid is supposed to be like a Totti, Messi, Ronaldo luiz etc.. who comes out of nowhere and after 2 years hes already world class! Now a wonderkid is a decen youth prospect with a ridiculous haircut and a number of freestyle skills.

[StLGooner]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Kids are being paid too much too young, thats the issue. There are no genuine special wonderkids apart from Donnarumma and Renato Sanches in a way under the age of 20.

Wonderkid is supposed to be like a Totti, Messi, Ronaldo luiz etc.. who comes out of nowhere and after 2 years hes already world class! Now a wonderkid is a decen youth prospect with a ridiculous haircut and a number of freestyle skills.

So do you think that gives them sort of a self entitlement type of attitude that hurts them? Would it be better to just put a cap on their salary or not pay them at all instead of scrapping a whole system?

[elkanofan]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Kids are being paid too much too young, thats the issue. There are no genuine special wonderkids apart from Donnarumma and Renato Sanches in a way under the age of 20.

Wonderkid is supposed to be like a Totti, Messi, Ronaldo luiz etc.. who comes out of nowhere and after 2 years hes already world class! Now a wonderkid is a decen youth prospect with a ridiculous haircut and a number of freestyle skills.

So do you think that gives them sort of a self entitlement type of attitude that hurts them? Would it be better to just put a cap on their salary or not pay them at all instead of scrapping a whole system?

Yes, however it goes deeper, the issue is the system itself is setup on dogmatic belief that if a player isn't good enough for an academy by the age of 14 he will never become a pro footballer.

Jamie Vardy and Carlos Bacca have destroyed this pathetic dogma beyond doubt!

With the salary cap point, try telling Jorge Mendes & Mino Raiola that with all the money they make from transfer fees. These are the men who run football!

[StLGooner]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Kids are being paid too much too young, thats the issue. There are no genuine special wonderkids apart from Donnarumma and Renato Sanches in a way under the age of 20.

Wonderkid is supposed to be like a Totti, Messi, Ronaldo luiz etc.. who comes out of nowhere and after 2 years hes already world class! Now a wonderkid is a decen youth prospect with a ridiculous haircut and a number of freestyle skills.

So do you think that gives them sort of a self entitlement type of attitude that hurts them? Would it be better to just put a cap on their salary or not pay them at all instead of scrapping a whole system?

Yes, however it goes deeper, the issue is the system itself is setup on dogmatic belief that if a player isn't good enough for an academy by the age of 14 he will never become a pro footballer.

Jamie Vardy and Carlos Bacca have destroyed this pathetic dogma beyond doubt!

With the salary cap point, try telling Jorge Mendes & Mino Raiola that with all the money they make from transfer fees. These are the men who run football!

I know money does rule the world and can cause generally good people to do bad things. I'm sure you know more about this whole system than I do of course, so I can see how the money thing is a big issue. I'm sure if you did implement a college style system there it would be a bit different than in the states. The problem with it here is that the college level football isn't competitive enough, all the top players immediately go pro somewhere, and the other players go there to die, instead of flourish. We have a huge number of kids here that play youth football, then for whatever reason it just doesn't translate well into the professional game. I think part of that is all the other options of sports to play, but for football (soccer) we actually start to lose that talent at the highschool level and into college, as the top ones get signed professionally, of course choosing the money, fame, prestige over playing in college.

The ability to see the European game more readily now days is helping, as younger kids here now can actually see their idols in action as opposed to just hearing or reading about them. I think it helps to be able to visualize and actually see how the top players perform as to try to incorporate that into their game. That definitely helps, but we are slowly starting to get away from the college system, and are putting our top youth players into MLS academies, so the top youth players can compete against other top youth players, instead of in fundamental youth leagues were certain kids are far too talented and never really face top competition as often as they need to in order to develop properly.

[Zedie]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Your national team is light years ahead of where it began way back in recent history though. Youve got to rememeber, the rest of the world has been obsessed with this game since the industrial revolution, you guys started taking it seriously in the 90's.

You have a lot of other sports to snag the best athletes (a firm athletic basis is important for any sport, adding the talent to the physical is the next levels).

USMC will keep improving over decades. Whether you will ever breach top 10 is another matter, but in the last 16 years, ive at least noticed some proper improvements.

[elkanofan]

Yeah, StL you hit the right point about the issue with the college system in America, right now and for the foreseeable future its highly unlikely and improbable for the standard of college 'soccer' to improve since there just inst enough expertise and interest in the game across america. However the system does work, if you started to employ high quality pro coaches in colleges and setup the leagues to directly play against MLS team academies and play matches against teams in the north and South America region.

Keeping young people in education until 21-23 years of age is beneficial i believe for them to become more responsbile people who can develop themselves in whatever they choose to pursue. the big issue with the academy system is kids don't come out with a proper education no matter if they make it, then get easily lead around by agents or if they don't make it, its horrible, many players fall into serious depression since they had nothing else but football.

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

And here we are in the States trying to emulate the youth systems in Europe and trying to get away from the college systems. It may work for you over there (although I don't see how), but it doesn't work here. As you can tell by our national team.

Your national team is light years ahead of where it began way back in recent history though. Youve got to rememeber, the rest of the world has been obsessed with this game since the industrial revolution, you guys started taking it seriously in the 90's.

You have a lot of other sports to snag the best athletes (a firm athletic basis is important for any sport, adding the talent to the physical is the next levels).

USMC will keep improving over decades. Whether you will ever breach top 10 is another matter, but in the last 16 years, ive at least noticed some proper improvements.

Christian Pulisic i think is a new big landmark for US soccer, a genuine contender to become world class at some point in his career. Also hes quite clearly more talented and better than any english youngster right now by some distance to put it in perspective.

[StLGooner]

Pulisic does look like he may be a great talent, but we've had players in the past with the same type of hype, and they let us down. So I'm a bit hesitant to get excited about him.

Yes our national team has come a long way. However, we have some of the best athletes in the world in this country. You can see it in other sports, you can see it during the olympics, we know we can produce athletic talent, but it's just not translating to football for all the reasons we mentioned. I still think the way forward for us is to start the academy style type of systems. We have to find a way for future generations to love the sport the way that many kids here (especially in the south) love American Football or Baseball.

[theHotHead]

Even though they are not young, both Özil and Sanchez became like three times better than what they were on RM/Barca.

True, but was this down to the manager of either team or was it due to them playing with better and world class players ??

[theHotHead]

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

to be honest and from my experiences, English football is miles behind everyone else when it comes to player development. It was only up until recently that kids no longer played on full size pitches. The focus is shifting but it will be some time until the technical level of English kids matches those of the Italians, Spanish, Dutch etc.

[StLGooner]

Even though they are not young, both Özil and Sanchez became like three times better than what they were on RM/Barca.

True, but was this down to the manager of either team or was it due to them playing with better and world class players ??

They ain't playing with better players though. They're playing with worse players, which makes them look better because they have more opportunity to shine, which is what they're doing. They're not in the Messi/Ronaldo shadows.

[theHotHead]

Such nonsense.

Wenger's only influence on the players coming through our system is deciding when one is ready for the first team, and further developing him to play at a professional level. The youth scouts are responsible to get talented youngsters to our academy, the youth coaches to develop them.

So you agree with me, that it is nonsense then when people say Wenger or Fergie are great at developing young players - which is my point.

No. I think Wenger has demonstrated with the likes of Cole, Fabregas, Wilshere, Song and recently Coquelin, Bellerin and Iwobi a certain ability to nurture and develop talented youngsters into top premier league players. You can say they only came to our academy when aged 16, as you have, but taking players with potential and making of them top players is really not a simple thing. There are enough examples of talented 18 year olds who didn't make it. Of course that's also on those players, but a manager can really have a big influence on their development.

I agree but equally disagree.

Song was dreadful and Coquelin, lets face it and in much the same way as Arteta and Song - came in and did a job better than anyone else we had at the club at the time, but their level as holding or DMs is pretty low, but when you have no alternative in the team to play the role you thank God for small mercies, as they say. Certain players will make it wherever they play, I remember seeing Fabregas' first game for Arsenal and my jaw dropped, he was incredible, Wenger had nothing to do with his real development - apart from giving him game time. The dross that has come through our youth system is proof of this, we usually see them play Carling Cup games then they disappear from existence.

Lets not forget, Wenger passed up the opportunity of Signing Cristiano Ronaldo.

[theHotHead]

Money has totally ruined football. I remember watching an interview with someone that said the youth team players should have to clean the pros boots and clean the stadiums after games, like they used to in the old days, to keep them grounded. Now young players are arrogant beyond belief.

clubs are crippling themselves and over spending trying to qualify for the Champion's League. Who remembers the old days of the European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup winner's Cup ? When I was a kid all 3 competitions had equal billing, I did not know one was better than the other. Now UEFA has top loaded the CL which has devalued the other competitions. I know why they did it, to head off a breakaway European league, but again, even that was driven by the club's greed - more revenue.

[elkanofan]

Money has totally ruined football. I remember watching an interview with someone that said the youth team players should have to clean the pros boots and clean the stadiums after games, like they used to in the old days, to keep them grounded. Now young players are arrogant beyond belief.

Yes.

Pampered and wrapped in cotton wool, without the responsibility and humility to develop themselves.

clubs are crippling themselves and over spending trying to qualify for the Champion's League. Who remembers the old days of the European Cup, UEFA Cup and Cup winner's Cup ? When I was a kid all 3 competitions had equal billing, I did not know one was better than the other. Now UEFA has top loaded the CL which has devalued the other competitions. I know why they did it, to head off a breakaway European league, but again, even that was driven by the club's greed - more revenue.

I do, it was awesome! Infact the UEFA Cup had a special place in peoples hearts as it was always know as the hardest out f the 3 to win, not as big as the european cup in value but earned you big respect due to it being pure knockout and the amount of teams you needed to beat.

Nowadays everything is about a handful of superclubs in Barcelona, Real Madrid, Bayern Munich, then us, Chelsea, United, Liverpool to an extent Juventus & PSG.

The only myth about Youth development is the more money and glossy the academy the better the player.

the truth is the opposite, great players develop themselves at all times, academies, coaches and managers just provide the right environment for them.

This is why youth football is garbage, players are taught to be robots! The whole youth system essentially needs to be scrapped and replaced with something similar to USA with the college system.

to be honest and from my experiences, English football is miles behind everyone else when it comes to player development. It was only up until recently that kids no longer played on full size pitches. The focus is shifting but it will be some time until the technical level of English kids matches those of the Italians, Spanish, Dutch etc.

Talent is everywhere in every country, the problem in England is they believe everything is about pace and strength. That why the ones who come through academies into the first team are so far behind technically, there is no united philosophy in England on how to play, just kick and rush past everyone. Not to mention overhype any youngster who has 4-5 good games in a row to being the next Messi.

English football is heading absolutely nowhere until they actually find a united philosophy and start to develop coaches from the ground.

[KG3]

The way i see it even if they were signed as talent youngsters they may have flopped under different managers, which is why Wenger and Fergie can be considered great at developing talent, for example Henry was crap Juventus but under the guideance of Wenger he turned into one of the best players in the world.

Someone like Adu could have reached his potential under the right management imo.