Goonersworld

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

One shows ambition. The other shows settling for mediocrity

Will be gutted if they get Klopp

Whoever it is it must be a done deal anyway, not even Liverpool are stupid enough to sack BR without having somebody lined up at a time like this.

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

Both end with 4th place. Theres literally no difference how you get there apparently, just where you end up.

We defo need to spend the money we have, there was no reason not to buy a DM, although finding someone better than Giroud and Walcott that didn't involve 60m on a punt was a lot harder than finding a fit, decent aged DM back up to replace arteta and flamini.

Wenger and Co have nowhere to hide on that front, but it still doesn't change the fact that not achieving 4th while spending 270m etc is in no way better than achieving 4th without spending it.

Zedie wrote:

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

Both end with 4th place. Theres literally no difference how you get there apparently, just where you end up.

We defo need to spend the money we have, there was no reason not to buy a DM, although finding someone better than Giroud and Walcott that didn't involve 60m on a punt was a lot harder than finding a fit, decent aged DM back up to replace arteta and flamini.

Wenger and Co have nowhere to hide on that front, but it still doesn't change the fact that not achieving 4th while spending 270m etc is in no way better than achieving 4th without spending it.

By that logic if a team comes up from the championship and spends 270m over 3 seasons (which is a ridiculous number to use considering how much they made from player sales, but whatever) and just misses 4th they shouldn't be as happy as Barcelona fans if they don't spend any money and finish 4th?

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Mesüt wrote:

Tony Montana wrote:

UFGN wrote:Seems like a nice guy.

Ultimately he failed, and most managers get sacked when that happens. He just spent so much money.

270 million since 2012.

sold 124m on just two players....


he had his best 3 players ripped from under him over the last 2 seasons, the only remaining player is finally back from injury and the manager is greeted with the sack. terrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrible upper level management, should look at themselves for selling their best players before criticising rodgers for trying to make do.

Benteke was a good signing, Ings seems to be scoring a few so they're fine up front now Sturridge is back but he's had no time to work with all 3 of them. Their defence has been crap since he took over, that's nothing new.

His signings bar a select few have all been egregious and he can't drill a defence to save his life - their football went to shit as well.

Rightfully sacked, the only mistake is he should've been chopped in the summer. If they get Klopp the decision to axe him will be looked upon as a masterstroke.

Agreed

Zedie wrote:

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

Both end with 4th place. Theres literally no difference how you get there apparently, just where you end up.

It's not the same thing.

If we had shown ambition in the past we may have mounted a proper title challenge or maybe even won one (07/08 perhaps when we ran out of steam or 13/14 ).

There would be a lot less angry fans if we actually looked like we were trying our best to win the title and failed instead of clearly doing the bare minimum and aiming for fourth place from the get go.

There is a difference between making 4th place our goal and doing our utmost to win but falling short.

There is a difference,

Out of curiosity do you believe is the goal this season or that Wenger believes he has a squad to challenge?

AAIRE99 wrote:Whoever it is it must be a done deal anyway, not even Liverpool are stupid enough to sack BR without having somebody lined up at a time like this.

Yeah, I'm thinking it's as good as done. They would never make the Klopp news so public unless he had already signed on.

Apollo wrote:There is a difference,

Out of curiosity do you believe is the goal this season or that Wenger believes he has a squad to challenge?

My above posts refers to bygone seasons.

We have the squad to challenge and we will do so.

I think we'll at least get 2nd and we could potentially win it all.

I can't remember seeing a league this wide open; City are favourites but it's clear they will have their stumbles along the way as well.

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

Both end with 4th place. Theres literally no difference how you get there apparently, just where you end up.

It's not the same thing.

If we had shown ambition in the past we may have mounted a proper title challenge or maybe even won one (07/08 perhaps when we ran out of steam or 13/14 ).

There would be a lot less angry fans if we actually looked like we were trying our best to win the title and failed instead of clearly doing the bare minimum and aiming for fourth place from the get go.

There is a difference between making 4th place our goal and doing our utmost to win but falling short.

Sorry, I really don't see a difference here. If we had spent 300m this summer but ended up 4th, how many of you in here would be going 'ah, at least we tried' at the end of the season?

Buzz words in every post for the summer would include:

4th place trophy
No trophies
Wenger out
No tactics
Specialist in failure
Lost the team
Enya
Midtable club
Scared of success
Should have signed x

'At least we tried' would be labelled an excuse.

4th place after heavily investing would be a step back, not progress.

Zedie wrote:
Sorry, I really don't see a difference here. If we had spent 300m this summer but ended up 4th, how many of you in here would be going 'ah, at least we tried' at the end of the season?

Buzz words in every post for the summer would include:

4th place trophy
No trophies
Wenger out
No tactics
Specialist in failure
Lost the team
Enya
Midtable club
Scared of success
Should have signed x

'At least we tried' would be labelled an excuse.

4th place after heavily investing would be a step back, not progress.

You don't see how a legitimate title challenge where we just miss out is different from scraping 4th place over Spurs on the last day of the season or finishing 15+ points behind the leader?

For example, in 11/12 Man United missed out on the title based on goal difference, we missed out on it by 19 points. Can you not see how their season was different from ours?


If we challenge for the title and narrowly missed out no one could complain as it would mean we did our best to win it; aiming for 4th from the outset is the problem.

Zedie wrote:4th place after heavily investing would be a step back, not progress.

I think you misunderstood me; I'm not saying we should spend x amount of money and come 4th the same as always, I'm saying if we spent x amount of money we would've challenged for the title and been in the top 4 regardless - we may not have won, but we could finish 2nd or something.

Spending heavily and coming 4th would be pointless; we could do it without spending. If we spent heavily it would be done with the intention of winning the title, and if we fall short, we fall short - but at least we did all we could to win. That's all you can ask.

No level of spending can guarantee you the title, but you can guarantee you'll win nothing if you spend nothing.

Gutted if they sign Klopp...

Pudpop wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Va-Va-Voom wrote:

Zedie wrote:

Cripps wrote:What's better?

Aiming for fourth every season as we do and getting it showing no ambition for improvement or aiming higher or the title, not winning it but getting CL qualification anyway cos we finish top 4?

What's the difference?

Signings of intent.

Both end with 4th place. Theres literally no difference how you get there apparently, just where you end up.

We defo need to spend the money we have, there was no reason not to buy a DM, although finding someone better than Giroud and Walcott that didn't involve 60m on a punt was a lot harder than finding a fit, decent aged DM back up to replace arteta and flamini.

Wenger and Co have nowhere to hide on that front, but it still doesn't change the fact that not achieving 4th while spending 270m etc is in no way better than achieving 4th without spending it.

By that logic if a team comes up from the championship and spends 270m over 3 seasons (which is a ridiculous number to use considering how much they made from player sales, but whatever) and just misses 4th they shouldn't be as happy as Barcelona fans if they don't spend any money and finish 4th?

???

Promoted team.
Expectations after spending a shit load: improve our championship squad and finish mid-table. Then have a fap fest!

Barcelona.
Expectations after spending a shit load on an already title winning team: win everything, win leagues that we don't even play in, win the world cup!

It's not just about what was spent, so the exagerated comparison is pointless.

Liverpool already had the foundations. Heavy investment naturally brings higher expectation, so they should have pressed on. You could argue that Wenger keeps the expectations low through a lack of spending (although Ozil, Sanchez and Cech says otherwise), but with or without the signings, what's deemed as successful or not would be built around the squad that already exists. So again, that comparison is way off.

It only takes a couple of key signings to turn a squad around. But they wasted money, how is that "showing ambition"? It's just tabloid fodder for fans who can't sleep at night til their team buys someone, anyone!

We've spent and won back to back FA cups and upgraded our 4th place trophy to a 3rd place trophy