2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:04 am

John Ozil wrote:
L'pools second choice striker scored 21 goals in 30 games...

While our second choice striker was Chamakh.

Gervinho,fat Arshavin,Andre Santos would sure as hell give those players you mentioned a run for their money..at being worse..lol


And Ramsey was still finding his way back after his leg break, he was awful at times - especially when played out wide.

Comfortably the worst squad we've ever had under Wenger; the many miracles of St. Judas is the only reason we finished top 4.
Last edited by Va-Va-Voom on Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:05 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby John Ozil » Thu Jun 04, 2015 2:05 am

Va-Va-Voom wrote:Van Persie. He was superlative . Best season I've ever seen from an Arsenal player - eclipses even any season Henry or Bergkamp had.

Also, Van Persie scored against the big sides - Chelsea x3, United x2, Liverpool x2, Spurs etc.

Suarez was a flat track bully.


38 goals in 46 games...without the help of another forward/#10 as his main provider...incredible.

Put 2011/12 RVP in this season squad...and we wouldve won the league
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby Angelito » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:06 am

Better player or better season?

van Persie was world class in his prime. Suarez is world class now. Difficult to pin it down, but Suarez is more of a match-winner than van Persie was in his peak. As a player, Suarez edges it, but we're talking about better seasons then...

- van Persie scored 30 in the League, 5 in the CL, and 2 in the FA Cup. He scored a total of 37 goals.
- van Persie had 9 assists overall (all in the League).

- Suarez scored 31 goals in the League and that's it.
- Suarez had 12 assists in the League and 1 in the FA Cup - overall 13.

Now, let's look at the total goals scored by their respective clubs in the PL.

- Liverpool scored 101 goals in the PL in 13/14. Suarez scored/assisted in 41.58% of Liverpool's goals.
- Arsenal scored 72 goals in the PL. van Persie scored/assisted in 52.7% of Arsenal's goals.

And, not to ignore the Champions League:

- van Persie scored 5 goals. Arsenal, in total, scored 10 goals in the CL. van Persie was involved in 5 of them (all goals) with 50% contribution.
- Liverpool didn't play in the CL.

Onto the FA Cup:

- Arsenal scored 4 goals in the FA Cup in 11/12. van Persie scored 2 of those. Total contribution = 50%.
- Suarez didn't score in the FA Cup.

With these statistics aforementioned, who do you think had a better season - van Persie or Suarez? It's up to you to decide.

Now, let's look at other scorers who helped their star men:

Liverpool:

2. Sturridge ~ 24 goals total (21 in the PL)
3. Gerrrard ~ 14 goals total (13 in the PL)
4. Sterling ~ 10 goals total (9 in the PL)

- Total goals scored by Liverpool excluding Suarez' goals = 79 goals (70 in the PL)

Arsenal:

2. Walcott ~ 11 goals total (8 in the PL)
3. Arteta ~ 6 goals total (6 in the PL)
4. Benayoun ~ 4 goals total (4 in the PL)

Total goals scored by Arsenal excluding van Persie's goals = 57 goals (42 in the PL)

Any further discussions to be had?

The reason why Liverpool challenged for the League, and we didn't, isn't because of Suarez alone. He had support from the rest of his team. Liverpool scored 70 goals in the PL without Suarez. We scored 42 without van Persie. See the difference? 28 goals apart.

And, then - there's the big game argument. I'm the first to admit that Suarez was great in all the big games 'Pool played in 13/14, but he didn't score against the top-4 clubs. van Persie did. He scored a hat-trick at Stamford Bridge; he scored in both games against ManU; he scored against Spurs; and he scored 2x against Liverpool and 1 against Everton.

Suarez scored against Everton, Spurs, and ManU, but none of those teams qualified for the CL. On the contrary, van Persie scored a hat-trick against the CL winners, scored in both games against the fiercest title challenger in United, and scored against Spurs (who finished 4th that season).

Isn't it all obvious now?


Va-Va-Voom wrote:
John Ozil wrote:
L'pools second choice striker scored 21 goals in 30 games...

While our second choice striker was Chamakh.

Gervinho,fat Arshavin,Andre Santos would sure as hell give those players you mentioned a run for their money..at being worse..lol


And Ramsey was still finding his way back after his leg break, he was awful at times - especially when played out wide.

Comfortably the worst squad we've ever had under Wenger; the many miracles of St. Judas is the only reason we finished top 4.


And, this.

People tend to ignore the contribution of other players, whilst look at our own players with Arsenal-tinted glasses. That was the worst squad under Wenger, ever, until one van Persie decided to have one of the greatest seasons by any player anywhere in the world. Berggy in 97/98 and perhaps Pires in 03/04 are the only seasons that'd probably beat the one van Persie had in 2011/2012. But, both players had world class players around them unlike van Persie.
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby John Ozil » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:30 am

RVP's hattrick @Chelsea......ooh-la-la
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:31 am

John Ozil wrote:RVP's hattrick @Chelsea......ooh-la-la


'Twas sexual.
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby John Ozil » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:42 am

Does anyone remember this thunderbolt from Suarez


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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:47 am

John Ozil wrote:Does anyone remember this thunderbolt from Suarez


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Yes, gave me heart palpitations.
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby John Ozil » Thu Jun 04, 2015 7:58 am

I wonder what happened to ya when they scored the 3rd,4th and 5th goal
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby jmiles10 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 8:13 pm

I think Suarez was better, he scored a smiliar amount of goals playing deeper, rvp was more of a poacher although he did score some great goals to.
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Re: 2011-12 RVP vs 2013-14 Suarez?

Postby Callum » Thu Jun 04, 2015 10:36 pm

Angelito wrote:Better player or better season?

van Persie was world class in his prime. Suarez is world class now. Difficult to pin it down, but Suarez is more of a match-winner than van Persie was in his peak. As a player, Suarez edges it, but we're talking about better seasons then...

- van Persie scored 30 in the League, 5 in the CL, and 2 in the FA Cup. He scored a total of 37 goals.
- van Persie had 9 assists overall (all in the League).

- Suarez scored 31 goals in the League and that's it.
- Suarez had 12 assists in the League and 1 in the FA Cup - overall 13.

Now, let's look at the total goals scored by their respective clubs in the PL.

- Liverpool scored 101 goals in the PL in 13/14. Suarez scored/assisted in 41.58% of Liverpool's goals.
- Arsenal scored 72 goals in the PL. van Persie scored/assisted in 52.7% of Arsenal's goals.

And, not to ignore the Champions League:

- van Persie scored 5 goals. Arsenal, in total, scored 10 goals in the CL. van Persie was involved in 5 of them (all goals) with 50% contribution.
- Liverpool didn't play in the CL.

Onto the FA Cup:

- Arsenal scored 4 goals in the FA Cup in 11/12. van Persie scored 2 of those. Total contribution = 50%.
- Suarez didn't score in the FA Cup.

With these statistics aforementioned, who do you think had a better season - van Persie or Suarez? It's up to you to decide.

Now, let's look at other scorers who helped their star men:

Liverpool:

2. Sturridge ~ 24 goals total (21 in the PL)
3. Gerrrard ~ 14 goals total (13 in the PL)
4. Sterling ~ 10 goals total (9 in the PL)

- Total goals scored by Liverpool excluding Suarez' goals = 79 goals (70 in the PL)

Arsenal:

2. Walcott ~ 11 goals total (8 in the PL)
3. Arteta ~ 6 goals total (6 in the PL)
4. Benayoun ~ 4 goals total (4 in the PL)

Total goals scored by Arsenal excluding van Persie's goals = 57 goals (42 in the PL)

Any further discussions to be had?

The reason why Liverpool challenged for the League, and we didn't, isn't because of Suarez alone. He had support from the rest of his team. Liverpool scored 70 goals in the PL without Suarez. We scored 42 without van Persie. See the difference? 28 goals apart.

And, then - there's the big game argument. I'm the first to admit that Suarez was great in all the big games 'Pool played in 13/14, but he didn't score against the top-4 clubs. van Persie did. He scored a hat-trick at Stamford Bridge; he scored in both games against ManU; he scored against Spurs; and he scored 2x against Liverpool and 1 against Everton.

Suarez scored against Everton, Spurs, and ManU, but none of those teams qualified for the CL. On the contrary, van Persie scored a hat-trick against the CL winners, scored in both games against the fiercest title challenger in United, and scored against Spurs (who finished 4th that season).

Isn't it all obvious now?


Va-Va-Voom wrote:
John Ozil wrote:
L'pools second choice striker scored 21 goals in 30 games...

While our second choice striker was Chamakh.

Gervinho,fat Arshavin,Andre Santos would sure as hell give those players you mentioned a run for their money..at being worse..lol


And Ramsey was still finding his way back after his leg break, he was awful at times - especially when played out wide.

Comfortably the worst squad we've ever had under Wenger; the many miracles of St. Judas is the only reason we finished top 4.


And, this.

People tend to ignore the contribution of other players, whilst look at our own players with Arsenal-tinted glasses. That was the worst squad under Wenger, ever, until one van Persie decided to have one of the greatest seasons by any player anywhere in the world. Berggy in 97/98 and perhaps Pires in 03/04 are the only seasons that'd probably beat the one van Persie had in 2011/2012. But, both players had world class players around them unlike van Persie.

Great post Ang.

I'll still go with Suarez though. ;)
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