Referee criticism

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Re: Referee criticism

Postby StokeFan » Tue Mar 10, 2015 1:00 pm

ESFSAFC wrote:
StokeFan wrote:
ESFSAFC wrote:Imagine if it was another referee. I can see a few of the current refs not booking ADM which would have meant they stay at 11 and even some refs falling for Janu's dive after a whole game of Rooney and Young screaming in your face.

The amount of cheating and trying to con the ref was embarassing at least ADM will miss the game against spurs and I think Utd will get a fine, they received 5 yellows if I remember right which I think means a fine.

Let's be realistic here. United aren't the only team who have done that. I've seen Arsenal do that a few times, and Chelsea, and certainly Liverpool. Diving is one thing, getting in the refs face and appealing for everything is unfortunately another one of those modern day football traits that is poisoning our game. We all hate it, but the powers that be have absolutely no interest in removing it. For one, it allows teams in the big 4 (i.e. you being one of them,) to stay where they are, because ultimately, when you look at the end of the season and these independent websites collate all the data about refs, you see that Arsenal, Liverpool, Chelsea, Man Utd and fast catching them, Man Citeh, get more 50/50 decisions than those below them, and also more contentious/controversial big decisions, i.e. penalties, off-side goals etc. Just look the other week, was it Hull? You certainly can't be saying the ref didn't give you the rub of the green that game.

Ultimately, it was nice to see a ref make big calls like he did last night. I wonder if the opposition had been someone else, I dunno, say Stoke City, whether he would have made the same calls. I'll give you the answer rather than beat around the bush.... No. He would have probably let Di Maria stay on the pitch, he'd have probably given a free kick for the Di Maria dive and probably a penalty for the Janu dive.

When we're on an even playing field and we see these big calls going for teams outside the top 4, then we'll see a big shift in the opinion of referees. Right now, the powers that be really don't want that to happen.

Will try and remain as unbiased as possible but in the years I've supported Arsenal I don't recall many times where we have surrounded a referee with 3+ players, had players diving or been asking for players to get sent off. Has it happened yes, but no where near enough to single us out from every other club in this league and others.

In that time I would say we have had RVP, go down easy at times maybe twice, Eduardo once which was still blown out of proportion and Eboue who probably did it three times and was the highest. All three of them left ages ago and I can't think of another Arsenal player since then or currently who dives and definitely not like how Man Utd have been this year. I don't consider Wilshere a diver or a cheat he's just a short guy that holds onto the ball too long who a 12 year old could knock down.

Do top four get more decisions yes but they still do get decisions against them but reason we know about them is that most events involving a top four club gets huge attention from the media, front page/back page so we hear about them more than say if it was involving a West Brom and a Crystal Palace. Another point to take into account is that the top four clubs do attack the most, create the most chances and can get up the pitch the fastest and most frequently which usually means more decisions for the ref to make that sometimes they give to the attacking side.

I'm not going to deny that the big clubs are most likely against video replays and the introduction of technology into the game which is a shame.
I think that's a very reasonable and level headed post.

I'll say this, Cazorla has a knack for going down, and Wilshere for me overruns the ball and then goes down when he's got no other option. He tends to get those decisions because he looks like a skillful player therefore, it looks as those he's been fouled. For me, Giroud also has a tendency to dive. For a big guy, he spent the entire game at the Brit throwing himself around, trying to get decisions. Apart from Charlie's cowardly stamp last season, there hasn't been a bad tackle on Giroud between us two, but he really seems to take the whole throwing himself to the ground lark seriously. Diving doesn't necessarily have to be throwing yourself down in the box. Those middle of the park 50/50's I've always felt some Arsenal players prefer to be half-hearted and then claim a free kick. I can name a few.

Regarding surrounding the ref, I wouldn't say you're as other teams we've played although I don't like some of the card waving that I've seen from Arsenal in the past. Cesc was a f***er for that and Nasri infuriated me. Both have gone, so I can't hold you to that too much, but it does still exist. Can't say I've seen it in too much in the the last two years though. There was certainly some angry reaction over the Walters penalty though which was as clear a penalty as you'll see.

We're all naturally biased when it comes to our own clubs and diving. We hate it when others do it, and we all like to say ours don't do it. For years, I genuinely believed Stoke were the only team in the Prem not to employ diving, especially because Pulis is seriously strict in how he deals with it, but this year I cannot say the same applies. Diouf against Newcastle the other week was a foul, but it was so clear as day that he went down looking for it. Not nice to see.

Certainly you're not the worst, I'd say Liverpool are. They infuriate me, all of them including f***ing Gerrard.
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Re: Referee criticism

Postby CrimsonGunner11 » Wed Apr 20, 2016 12:58 pm

Kevin Friend: Which teams do Premier League referees support?

The fallout over referee Jon Moss' performance in Leicester's 2-2 draw against West Ham took attention away from another officiating talking point.

Last week, Leicester fan Kevin Friend's removal from taking charge of title rivals Tottenham's game at Stoke had already sparked debate.

Instead he will be in the middle of Manchester City's trip to Newcastle on Tuesday night.

But how does a referee's home town, or who they support, affect which games they are actually allowed to officiate?

Referees and their teams
(Compiled by BBC Sport)
Referee home town/county Supports Interesting notes
Martin Atkinson, Bradford Leeds Leeds games 0; Bradford games 0
Stuart Attwell, Nuneaton Luton Coventry games 0; Aston Villa games 0
Mark Clattenburg, County Durham Newcastle Newcastle games 0; Sunderland games 0
Mike Dean, Wirral, lives north Wales Tranmere Everton games 2; Liverpool 1; but none since being removed from 2006 FA Cup final
Roger East, Wiltshire Unknown Swindon games 5
Kevin Friend, Bristol, lives in Leicestershire Bristol City and Leicester Leicester games 0; Bristol City games 7
Simon Hooper, Wiltshire Swindon An ex-Swindon academy player. Swindon games 0
Mike Jones, Chester Chester Free to referee any Football League game
Robert Madley, Wakefield Huddersfield Huddersfield games 0; Leeds 1; Bradford 1
Andre Marriner, Birmingham Aston Villa Villa games 0; Birmingham 0; West Brom games 2
Lee Mason, Bolton Bolton Bolton games 0
Jon Moss, Sunderland Sunderland Ex-youth player at Sunderland and Millwall - has never refereed either team. Newcastle games 1 (Championship, 2009)
Michael Oliver, Ashington Newcastle Newcastle games 0; Sunderland 0
Craig Pawson, South Yorkshire Sheffield United Sheff Wed games 0; Sheff Utd 0; Rotherham 0
Graham Scott, Oxford Swindon Swindon games 0; Oxford games 0
Keith Stroud, Dorset Luton Southampton games 4; Bournemouth 6; Luton games 0; Portsmouth 0
Neil Swarbrick, Preston Preston Preston games 0
Anthony Taylor, Wythenshawe, Greater Manchester Altrincham Man Utd games 12 and Man City games 11
Paul Tierney, Wigan Wigan Wigan games 0

Do referees have to say who they support?

Yes. And referees will not get appointed to the clubs they support.

"At the beginning of every season the referees' background information is audited," said Keith Hackett, the former head of Professional Game Match Officials Limited (PGMOL), the organisation that makes refereeing appointments for Premier League games.

"They complete a form that includes who they support, the history of if they've played the game and with the addresses where they are residing.

"That gives you a picture that comes into use when you're appointing. It's about ensuring, for example, you wouldn't appoint a Sheffield-based ref for a Sheffield team."

BBC Sport has not seen an official record of referee's allegiances, one of several factors considered when officials are selected for matches.

Former Premier League referee Mark Halsey added: "I was never able to referee Bolton because I lived there. If you lived in Leeds, you weren't going to referee Leeds United. "

What is the official line?

PGMOL says the process behind referee selection is all about avoiding "unnecessary extra external pressure and scrutiny on referees" in what is an "already a high pressure and demanding job".

It also says that where a referee lives is not a factor when referee appointments are considered.

So what does happen when you referee your team?

Halsey, a QPR fan, said he refereed his own team twice, before rules over announcing your allegiance came in.

"I lived 35 miles away from Loftus Road," he said.

"I refereed one win and one loss and I thought 'I can't do this again'. I never told them initially because it was back in the 1990s and things like that were only just starting to happen.

"I had to declare it because I felt like celebrating when they won. But once you've crossed the white line you're the ref and you always remained professional."

Are there inconsistencies?

Both Hackett and Halsey argue there are inconsistencies.

Halsey has questioned why Friend was removed from refereeing a game involving Leicester's title rivals, while Michael Oliver, a Newcastle fan, was allowed to officiate in a game involving the Magpies' fellow relegation candidates Norwich City, when they lost to Crystal Palace last week.

"I just think they're making a rod for their own back," said Halsey.

And Hackett has pointed towards inconsistencies around refereeing appointments when it comes to geography.

Mike Dean, a Tranmere fan, was removed from refereeing the 2006 FA Cup final between Liverpool and West Ham because he lived in Wirral, which is part of Merseyside.

Up until that point he had officiated one Liverpool game and two Everton games, but has not overseen either side since, despite moving to north Wales.

Meanwhile, Anthony Taylor, an Altrincham fan who lives in the Greater Manchester borough of Trafford, is allowed to officiate matches involving Manchester City and Manchester United.

"If you're an Everton fan coming up to the FA Cup semi-final against Manchester United and you look at where Anthony Taylor lives, you suddenly go 'wow'," said Hackett.

The PGMOL says it makes appointments on a "case by case basis".

Halsey and Hackett said they were not questioning the integrity of any referee, but questioned the consistency of the appointment process.

What do the managers say?

Arsenal boss Arsene Wenger criticised the decision to remove Friend from Tottenham's game against Stoke, after pressure from Spurs fans on social media.

"If you go that way, it becomes a nightmare every week to choose a referee for every single game. A dangerous precedent," he said.

"The solution is you don't look where they come from, who they support, and you put the best referees into the games."

Speaking before Monday's 4-0 defeat by Spurs, Potters boss Mark Hughes added: "Maybe the professional body that is in charge of referees thinks if any decision did go our way or against Tottenham, or vice-versa, then questions would be asked and they don't want to be put in that situation.

"My take on it is that the integrity of the referees should stop that happening or anybody having any doubts about that anyway, but it is what it is."

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