Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Good_Eye_Sniper » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:41 pm

It's fair enough saying that teams knew how to cancel us out, but how many times have we got to hear this?

How many teams "know how to cancel out" Chelsea? Or United? Not many I'll tell you.

There's a reason for that, and that shouldn't be an excuse mate
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Trina » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:45 pm

Inchpractice wrote:Vela has shown again that he's still not quite ready for the best Prem teams so hopefully some of the people who were calling for him to start after the Wigan game will understand why it's not as simple as that.



Oh come on Inch, Vela came on as a sub when we were down. Doesn't mean he won't do well starting a game.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say someone is not ready to start a game when they have come on as a sub in the last 15/20mins. IMO you can't judge it like that.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Fordy » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:46 pm

Good_Eye_Sniper wrote:It's fair enough saying that teams knew how to cancel us out, but how many times have we got to hear this?

How many teams "know how to cancel out" Chelsea? Or United? Not many I'll tell you.

There's a reason for that, and that shouldn't be an excuse mate


exactly, do you think stoke play any different against man utd or chelsea as they do Arsenal?

No of course they dont they do the same thing but the the other 2 find a way past it
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Inchpräctice » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:49 pm

Good_Eye_Sniper wrote:It's fair enough saying that teams knew how to cancel us out, but how many times have we got to hear this?

How many teams "know how to cancel out" Chelsea? Or United? Not many I'll tell you.

There's a reason for that, and that shouldn't be an excuse mate

I'm not using it as an excuse.
I've been saying on this forum for months that we are STILL not good enough at breaking down teams who park the bus in front of goal and teams have been doing it for years and we still can't crack it.
We're too predictable.
O' Neill outsmarted us and he shouldn't be able to. Simple as.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Good_Eye_Sniper » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:50 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
Good_Eye_Sniper wrote:It's fair enough saying that teams knew how to cancel us out, but how many times have we got to hear this?

How many teams "know how to cancel out" Chelsea? Or United? Not many I'll tell you.

There's a reason for that, and that shouldn't be an excuse mate

I'm not using it as an excuse.
I've been saying on this forum for months that we are STILL not good enough at breaking down teams who park the bus in front of goal and teams have been doing it for years and we still can't crack it.
We're too predictable.
O' Neill outsmarted us and he shouldn't be able to. Simple as.

I wasn't having a go mate, Fordy is spot on, and yes, you are right, we can't break those teams down, so why not?

Is Ferguson better tactically than Wenger? I sincerely hope not :(
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Inchpräctice » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:52 pm

Trina wrote:
Inchpractice wrote:Vela has shown again that he's still not quite ready for the best Prem teams so hopefully some of the people who were calling for him to start after the Wigan game will understand why it's not as simple as that.



Oh come on Inch, Vela came on as a sub when we were down. Doesn't mean he won't do well starting a game.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say someone is not ready to start a game when they have come on as a sub in the last 15/20mins. IMO you can't judge it like that.

Ok I may be being a bit premature but he's come on about 5 times this season as a sub in the Prem and every time he's been trounced by big powerful defenders. He's still too lightweight at the moment and I can't see how starting him from the beginning will make much difference.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Trina » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:54 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
Trina wrote:
Inchpractice wrote:Vela has shown again that he's still not quite ready for the best Prem teams so hopefully some of the people who were calling for him to start after the Wigan game will understand why it's not as simple as that.



Oh come on Inch, Vela came on as a sub when we were down. Doesn't mean he won't do well starting a game.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say someone is not ready to start a game when they have come on as a sub in the last 15/20mins. IMO you can't judge it like that.

Ok I may be being a bit premature but he's come on about 5 times this season as a sub in the Prem and every time he's been trounced by big powerful defenders. He's still too lightweight at the moment and I can't see how starting him from the beginning will make much difference.


I know what you mean, but then look at how Bendtner has played, is it worth the risk for one game? I'd say so.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Inchpräctice » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:54 pm

Fordy wrote:
Good_Eye_Sniper wrote:It's fair enough saying that teams knew how to cancel us out, but how many times have we got to hear this?

How many teams "know how to cancel out" Chelsea? Or United? Not many I'll tell you.

There's a reason for that, and that shouldn't be an excuse mate


exactly, do you think stoke play any different against man utd or chelsea as they do Arsenal?
It's hard for any team to break down the opposition when they park the bus in front of goal and Manure and Chelscum suffer with it as well.
I can't deny that they're doing better with it than us though.
No of course they dont they do the same thing but the the other 2 find a way past it.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Fordy » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:54 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
Trina wrote:
Inchpractice wrote:Vela has shown again that he's still not quite ready for the best Prem teams so hopefully some of the people who were calling for him to start after the Wigan game will understand why it's not as simple as that.



Oh come on Inch, Vela came on as a sub when we were down. Doesn't mean he won't do well starting a game.

I don't think I have ever heard anyone say someone is not ready to start a game when they have come on as a sub in the last 15/20mins. IMO you can't judge it like that.

Ok I may be being a bit premature but he's come on about 5 times this season as a sub in the Prem and every time he's been trounced by big powerful defenders. He's still too lightweight at the moment and I can't see how starting him from the beginning will make much difference.


What difference does bendy make by starting
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Fordy » Sat Nov 15, 2008 8:57 pm

Inchpractice wrote:It's hard for any team to break down the opposition when they park the bus in front of goal and Manure and Chelscum suffer with it as well.


Man utd looked to be struggling today
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Inchpräctice » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:04 pm

I really didn't want to start up the whole Bendtner debate again tonight.
As I watched the game today and as he didn't score I knew he'd get hammered on here tonight.
The fact is he did what he was asked to do which is put pressure on the defenders and make runs to create space for others.
People on here have very short memories. When Ade had to play 4-5-1 he couldn't do much because being a lone striker is very very hard and it's a thankless task, so we all slated him on here.
As soon as we returned to 4-4-2 he was great and all the people who had slagged him off had to praise him.

What I always say is before you slate a player ask yourself who we had on the bench that would've done better and who else on the pitch was better?
Nasri, Theo and Diaby were absolutely no better than Bendtner and Nasri is older and vastly more experienced so he doesn't have the excuse of being young.

If Vela had started he would've been far more ineffective than Bendtner because the Villa defence were all over Bendy and there were 3 men around him at any given moment. Vela just got squashed by them so I think Wenger's decision was the right one.

I'm not saying Bendy played well today because he didn't but I'm convinced that Vela would've been worse and we had no choice other than to play him.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Fordy » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:08 pm

Inchpractice wrote:I really didn't want to start up the whole Bendtner debate again tonight.
As I watched the game today and as he didn't score I knew he'd get hammered on here tonight.
The fact is he did what he was asked to do which is put pressure on the defenders and make runs to create space for others.
People on here have very short memories. When Ade had to play 4-5-1 he couldn't do much because being a lone striker is very very hard and it's a thankless task, so we all slated him on here.
As soon as we returned to 4-4-2 he was great and all the people who had slagged him off had to praise him.

What I always say is before you slate a player ask yourself who we had on the bench that would've done better and who else on the pitch was better?
Nasri, Theo and Diaby were absolutely no better than Bendtner and Nasri is older and vastly more experienced so he doesn't have the excuse of being young.

If Vela had started he would've been far more ineffective than Bendtner because the Villa defence were all over Bendy and there were 3 men around him at any given moment. Vela just got squashed by them so I think Wenger's decision was the right one.


Bendy was just about the only thing they talked about on sky all through the game saying how poor he was ( now of course everyone at sky hate arsenal) .

it wasn't the fact he didn't score he was just plain terrible, why do you defend him , just because wenger thinks he will turn in to a top player doesn't mean he will.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Inchpräctice » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:25 pm

Fordy wrote:it wasn't the fact he didn't score he was just plain terrible, why do you defend him , just because wenger thinks he will turn in to a top player doesn't mean he will.

It's nothing to do with that, I defend him because I feel that he gets unfairly criticised.
When he plays badly he deserves it but any striker that is forced to play as a lone striker should be given some slack, especially if they are about 20 years old.
I also believe that half of the people slating him on here don't actually understand what his role in the team is or why we have different types of strikers for different situations.
Every single striker in our squad has a different style of play and AW knows when they should be used and more importantly when they shouldn't.

I'm not saying he's a great player but he's not shit as some people say and I for one don't want to sell him.
What I would say is that maybe he would benefit from another season on loan before he's used as a loan striker. If you're not happy with the fact he's being used too much now then take it out on Wenger rather than a young player who's nowhere near the finished article.
Remember that if RVP hadn't been a t**t he would've played and we could've played 4-4-2.
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Fordy » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:30 pm

Inchpractice wrote:
Fordy wrote:it wasn't the fact he didn't score he was just plain terrible, why do you defend him , just because wenger thinks he will turn in to a top player doesn't mean he will.

It's nothing to do with that, I defend him because I feel that he gets unfairly criticised.
When he plays badly he deserves it but any striker that is forced to play as a lone striker should be given some slack, especially if they are about 20 years old.
I also believe that half of the people slating him on here don't actually understand what his role in the team is or why we have different types of strikers for different situations.
Every single striker in our squad has a different style of play and AW knows when they should be used and more importantly when they shouldn't.

I'm not saying he's a great player but he's not shit as some people say and I for one don't want to sell him.
What I would say is that maybe he would benefit from another season on loan before he's used as a loan striker. If you're not happy with the fact he's being used too much now then take it out on Wenger rather than a young player who's nowhere near the finished article.
Remember that if RVP hadn't been a t**t he would've played and we could've played 4-4-2.


so why not play vela? And don't give me he's not ready he played a full season in the Spanish top league and destroyed wigan a prem team.

Your saying bendy is not ready so what difference does it make if vela's not ready
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Re: Arsenal Vs Aston Villa | Premiership 15/11/08

Postby Leody » Sat Nov 15, 2008 9:35 pm

My opinion...

Why is age an excuse for Bendtner when it wasn't for Cesc? Bendtner is only 7 months younger than Cesc and Cesc has been a first team regular for how long now?

If you ask me, it's time for Bendtner to put up or shut up.

He's been with the club for three full seasons (1 on loan) and contributed very little. If he doesn't step up this year I'm done with him.

Knowing Arsene though... He'll let Adebayor go when he raises a stink this summer and we'll be left with Bendtner as our only option when RVP gets hurt and everybody else it "not ready yet"...
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