Is the Premier League slipping?

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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby GSK_AFC » Tue Jan 28, 2014 11:08 pm

Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:Rivals to Bayern only last a couple of seasons and then they fall back down, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart. Schalke and Werder Bremen used to be title challengers too. Bayern is the only consistent team at the top so it really is a one team league.


5 Different league winners in the past 10 years and we want to call it a one team league.

Where does the PL stand with their 4 winners over the same duration?

Yeah but those 4 winners of the PL still compete every season, look how far some of those Bundesliga clubs have fallen. It's only Bayern who are consistently at the top.


The underlined bit actually works against the angle of the PL being more competitive though, you've established fixed rotation.

BL has been more variable "competitive" in that span with frequently rotating top teams, top 4, league winners etc.

Not that its huge issue, but it is factually incorrect that one labels a league with a bigger variety of winners and rotation in and amongst the top echelons as being a one league team, i say this fully understanding that Bayern has been as "consitent as Man Utd" over the set period, the only difference has being more teams have been able to challenge for honours instead resigned to being stuck in the mid table chasing pack.

Having a league with more winners by definition goes against them being labeled as a one team league. The have one the most just like United have, but they have haven't always been the only team in hunt.

BL winners 2002/2003

Bayern- 6
Dortmund -2
Bremin-1
Stuttgart-1
Wolfsburg-1

Pl winners 2002/2013

Man Utd- 6
Chelsea-3
Arsenal-1
Man City-1

Either both have been dominated by one team or neither have. :)

Yes but my point is look where Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and eventually Dortmund are now. At the start of every season you can predict that Bayern will win the league and you probably won't be wrong, especially with their current side. At the start of season you can't predict which PL side will win it.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby elkanofan » Wed Jan 29, 2014 1:31 am

Massa wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Massa wrote:
SchlandGooner wrote:
Massa wrote:
No1Fan wrote:in 2 years dortmund will have fallen to the level of mediocrity of teams like stuttgart hamburg and schalke.

Find it difficult to disagree with this now. They are in a race for a CL spot this season ffs. Lewa is leaving in the summer and Reus' buyout clause will be met (hopefully by us)


Their injury curse this season is really unbelivable and challenging for them but they are still on a CL spot a lot of teams would find themselfs out of the Top6 in this situation. TBH Lewa is shit this season and his convertion rate is on Girouds level. They wouldn't struggle that much with the Lewa from last season they have plenty of chances in nearly every match but sadly a wasteful striker. Reus buyout clause starts in 2015 according to german press so I don't see a problem here atm and they don't need to sell players anymore unlike the seasons before (50m€ profit last season !). Even without Lewa the squad is full of really good mostly U26 players and nearly all of them have long term contracts plus they have some at least decent youngsters in their squad (Sarr, Hofmann aso) and some young players (like Bittencourt) they sold lately have a buy back clause. Their future doesn't look that bad imo.

Sure, but you can't deny they are slipping and once Reus does leave they'll have no world class players; only a year away. You can't deny they are slipping; and subsequently the Bundesliga is becoming a league with one good team.


See that is the thing with Dortmund, they don't do what premier league teams do and buy world class players. they make them :)

Chelsea, Spurs and City rely solely on buying top talent. Where was Reus two years ago? You can say the same about many players from Dortmund who have gone onto bigger things.

They have an injury crisis at the moment, none of their top center backs are available. They should start picking up when they return to fitness.

Reus was good at Gladbach tbf. Dortmund hardly made him.


Still stands as part of my point Bundersliga teams create talents, they can afford to sell since they keep churning out better players.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Apollo » Wed Jan 29, 2014 6:03 am

GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:Rivals to Bayern only last a couple of seasons and then they fall back down, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart. Schalke and Werder Bremen used to be title challengers too. Bayern is the only consistent team at the top so it really is a one team league.


5 Different league winners in the past 10 years and we want to call it a one team league.

Where does the PL stand with their 4 winners over the same duration?

Yeah but those 4 winners of the PL still compete every season, look how far some of those Bundesliga clubs have fallen. It's only Bayern who are consistently at the top.


The underlined bit actually works against the angle of the PL being more competitive though, you've established fixed rotation.

BL has been more variable "competitive" in that span with frequently rotating top teams, top 4, league winners etc.

Not that its huge issue, but it is factually incorrect that one labels a league with a bigger variety of winners and rotation in and amongst the top echelons as being a one league team, i say this fully understanding that Bayern has been as "consitent as Man Utd" over the set period, the only difference has being more teams have been able to challenge for honours instead resigned to being stuck in the mid table chasing pack.

Having a league with more winners by definition goes against them being labeled as a one team league. The have one the most just like United have, but they have haven't always been the only team in hunt.

BL winners 2002/2003

Bayern- 6
Dortmund -2
Bremin-1
Stuttgart-1
Wolfsburg-1

Pl winners 2002/2013

Man Utd- 6
Chelsea-3
Arsenal-1
Man City-1

Either both have been dominated by one team or neither have. :)

Yes but my point is look where Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and eventually Dortmund are now. At the start of every season you can predict that Bayern will win the league and you probably won't be wrong, especially with their current side. At the start of season you can't predict which PL side will win it.


But i just showed you with empirical evidence thats not true?

A year and a half doesnt change that trend.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby ThereIsBearCüm » Wed Jan 29, 2014 7:14 am

Pretty sure we've won two EPL titles in that time period...
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Apollo » Wed Jan 29, 2014 9:42 am

ThereIsBearCüm wrote:Pretty sure we've won two EPL titles in that time period...


2002/2003 - 2012/2013
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby GSK_AFC » Wed Jan 29, 2014 10:08 pm

Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:Rivals to Bayern only last a couple of seasons and then they fall back down, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart. Schalke and Werder Bremen used to be title challengers too. Bayern is the only consistent team at the top so it really is a one team league.


5 Different league winners in the past 10 years and we want to call it a one team league.

Where does the PL stand with their 4 winners over the same duration?

Yeah but those 4 winners of the PL still compete every season, look how far some of those Bundesliga clubs have fallen. It's only Bayern who are consistently at the top.


The underlined bit actually works against the angle of the PL being more competitive though, you've established fixed rotation.

BL has been more variable "competitive" in that span with frequently rotating top teams, top 4, league winners etc.

Not that its huge issue, but it is factually incorrect that one labels a league with a bigger variety of winners and rotation in and amongst the top echelons as being a one league team, i say this fully understanding that Bayern has been as "consitent as Man Utd" over the set period, the only difference has being more teams have been able to challenge for honours instead resigned to being stuck in the mid table chasing pack.

Having a league with more winners by definition goes against them being labeled as a one team league. The have one the most just like United have, but they have haven't always been the only team in hunt.

BL winners 2002/2003

Bayern- 6
Dortmund -2
Bremin-1
Stuttgart-1
Wolfsburg-1

Pl winners 2002/2013

Man Utd- 6
Chelsea-3
Arsenal-1
Man City-1

Either both have been dominated by one team or neither have. :)

Yes but my point is look where Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and eventually Dortmund are now. At the start of every season you can predict that Bayern will win the league and you probably won't be wrong, especially with their current side. At the start of season you can't predict which PL side will win it.


But i just showed you with empirical evidence thats not true?

A year and a half doesnt change that trend.

I'm talking about now as in this season and onwards.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Apollo » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:30 am

GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:
Omphi93 wrote:
GSK_AFC wrote:Rivals to Bayern only last a couple of seasons and then they fall back down, Dortmund, Wolfsburg, Stuttgart. Schalke and Werder Bremen used to be title challengers too. Bayern is the only consistent team at the top so it really is a one team league.


5 Different league winners in the past 10 years and we want to call it a one team league.

Where does the PL stand with their 4 winners over the same duration?

Yeah but those 4 winners of the PL still compete every season, look how far some of those Bundesliga clubs have fallen. It's only Bayern who are consistently at the top.


The underlined bit actually works against the angle of the PL being more competitive though, you've established fixed rotation.

BL has been more variable "competitive" in that span with frequently rotating top teams, top 4, league winners etc.

Not that its huge issue, but it is factually incorrect that one labels a league with a bigger variety of winners and rotation in and amongst the top echelons as being a one league team, i say this fully understanding that Bayern has been as "consitent as Man Utd" over the set period, the only difference has being more teams have been able to challenge for honours instead resigned to being stuck in the mid table chasing pack.

Having a league with more winners by definition goes against them being labeled as a one team league. The have one the most just like United have, but they have haven't always been the only team in hunt.

BL winners 2002/2003

Bayern- 6
Dortmund -2
Bremin-1
Stuttgart-1
Wolfsburg-1

Pl winners 2002/2013

Man Utd- 6
Chelsea-3
Arsenal-1
Man City-1

Either both have been dominated by one team or neither have. :)

Yes but my point is look where Bremen, Stuttgart, Wolfsburg and eventually Dortmund are now. At the start of every season you can predict that Bayern will win the league and you probably won't be wrong, especially with their current side. At the start of season you can't predict which PL side will win it.


But i just showed you with empirical evidence thats not true?

A year and a half doesnt change that trend.

I'm talking about now as in this season and onwards.


You've been using the recent past as the unit of measurement the entire time, bringing up past winners, saying how they drop off, how you could predict how Bayern would win etc ??

Anyway this is getting pretty dragged on man.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby GSK_AFC » Thu Jan 30, 2014 11:36 am

lol perhaps I haven't explained my point well enough. I was basically trying to say that any team that challenges Bayern falls away and that if you were to predict a team to win the Bundesliga it would be Bayern as there's no other club with there consistency at the top, whereas the premier league has 3/4 teams who are consistently at the top.
We'll agree to disagree :Peace:
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Schlandi » Thu May 01, 2014 12:16 pm

So from the "current big three" the Premier League and the Bundesliga end up without any finalist in the two european competitions while LaLiga has managed to make a completely spanish CL final happen and to bring one club to the EL finals (the other team will be from Italy (Juve) or Portugal (Benfica).

So 3 out of 4 finalists are from LaLiga that's a huge blow for the other leagues, imo.
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Cripps » Thu May 01, 2014 12:24 pm

It has the most money but on the pitch it trails la liga
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Re: Is the Premier League slipping?

Postby Yago » Thu May 01, 2014 12:39 pm

the top teams from la liga are better but Stoke would bully a club like Celta (10th in Spain).
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