Nuno Tavares (20)

[theHotHead]

Brilliant post and now you highlight it I totally agree, he doesn't need experience, he needs to improve himself defensively, that will only happen with coaching, because his issues are fundamental.

Arteta and co do not strike me as developers of players, Arteta is a chequebook manager and the process seems to be ship players out that have deficiencies.

[Santi]

Whilst I can fully understand the logic of sending young developing players out on loan for a season or maybe even two if the circumstance of the first warrants it, to me, the primary objective of that action is to gain experience and game time at a higher and more professionally competitive level than is achievable playing reserves and U21's league football.

What I am failing to grasp here in regards to Tavares similarly being pointed in that direction, is that his glaring deficiency lies in his inability to defend effectively and consistently rather than a hindering lack of experience and being accustomed to playing against mature, seasoned professionals.

Unless the principles of coaching and training have now drastically changed since my involvement, and it's no longer a coaches job to identify the strengths and weaknesses to a player's game and impart ways in which to further develop and improve their qualities as well as eradicate faults and inadequacies to make them better and more functional and efficient as footballers, why aren't the issues he has being addressed by OUR coaching staff instead of effectively subcontracting the work out to someone else?

Well the problem is, while our coaches may be teaching him things to improve, we don’t want to take the chance on his mistakes costing us and would rather they cost another team out on loan.

I doubt the coaches just wake up every day and say hey nuno go running today. Of course they are trying to improve him but he needs chances to put it into practice and we can’t afford to give him that, not on a large enough scale.

Take the lessons, go hone the skills on loan (preferably under a defensive manager who can help) and come back to us better.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Send him to Fulham. Maybe they'll get relegated and he'll pick up POTY like the legend Calum Chambers.

[thebigbangtheo]

Whilst I can fully understand the logic of sending young developing players out on loan for a season or maybe even two if the circumstance of the first warrants it, to me, the primary objective of that action is to gain experience and game time at a higher and more professionally competitive level than is achievable playing reserves and U21's league football.

What I am failing to grasp here in regards to Tavares similarly being pointed in that direction, is that his glaring deficiency lies in his inability to defend effectively and consistently rather than a hindering lack of experience and being accustomed to playing against mature, seasoned professionals.

Unless the principles of coaching and training have now drastically changed since my involvement, and it's no longer a coaches job to identify the strengths and weaknesses to a player's game and impart ways in which to further develop and improve their qualities as well as eradicate faults and inadequacies to make them better and more functional and efficient as footballers, why aren't the issues he has being addressed by OUR coaching staff instead of effectively subcontracting the work out to someone else?

Well the problem is, while our coaches may be teaching him things to improve, we don’t want to take the chance on his mistakes costing us and would rather they cost another team out on loan.

I doubt the coaches just wake up every day and say hey nuno go running today. Of course they are trying to improve him but he needs chances to put it into practice and we can’t afford to give him that, not on a large enough scale.

Take the lessons, go hone the skills on loan (preferably under a defensive manager who can help) and come back to us better.

With all due respect Santi, the issue that I have with the premise of your theory is that it is contrary to pretty much what every professional football manager, coach and player has ever relayed, in that the really hard yards that they put in to win a match, cup or league, is done at the training ground, with the by-product of those efforts being the match day performance and not the other way round, whether you're Man City and Liverpool or Norwich and Watford.

The famous American quip of 'How do you get to Carnegie Hall?...Practice' rings true and as such it is what you show in training ground practice matches with and against your peers that influences managers to give opportunities to the likes of an embryonic Adams, Rocastle, Fabregas, Saka. Remember, some nine months or so ago, a large sway of the gooner nation were voicing the opinion that Nuno simply had to be retained as the starting left back since he'd performed so well and sod that Tierney was now once again fully fit and recovered from injury, so there is definitely a player within him.

The intention of loaning out young players who are largely an unknown entity is also supposed to benefit the loaning team by supplementing them with a player they'd otherwise be unlikely to accommodate, a bit like getting to buy something from Harrods when you're only accustomed to shopping at Tesco's and Aldi. At the same time, the likelihood would be that the loan was a waste of time for all parties given that the loanee team would be even less likely to tolerate harmful mistakes damaging a promotion push or encouraging the spectre of relegation and either way be more likely than not to get that manager sacked.

[theHotHead]

^^^

Was gonna say exactly the same thing. How do players learn to play in a different position ? How do players learn to play a different formation ? You train, repetition, thats how you make changes and thats how you coach - thats EXACTLY the role of the coaches.

You play situations, they stop the game and analyse what you are doing wrong and tell you what you should do, in thats situation. If you are wrong positionally they will tell you. Its not a case of "instinct", it might be for the first couple of times but if you end up having to do doggies because you made the mistake again, you will soon remember not to do it.

[Santi]

Dear god, where did I say stop all training? I literally said the coaches here would be working with him and if the player goes on loan does he again stop training?

The point is that he can learn elsewhere and develop while being allowed to make more mistakes (unless like HH he does everything perfect first time) while practicing those skills in an actual competitive environment.

The comments don’t even line up, have you guys never trained and then tried to put it into practice in a game? It’s completely different and match experience is absolutely vital to be able to use whatever you have worked on during the week. If he’s constantly stuck on the bench here it doesn’t matter how much he can do in training, he’ll never have enough chance to do it in the pressure situation.

You talk like training is a perfect playground but then why do players always get eased in when they come back from an injury? Because the intensity and pressure of a match is completely different. It’s the same for improving, all good practicing all week to improve.. nobody ever disputed that…but having the possibility to demonstrate it to yourself as well as others over 30+ games a season is what matters imo.

You guys want the poor lad to get roasted again by Liverpool and subbed at half time? what a development path! but hey at least he worked in training all week.

[theHotHead]

Wrong mate !

Firstly there is no benefit to loaning Tavares out to a Championship or Div 1 side, ideally he will be loaned to a Premier League club. do you think ANY Premier League club can afford to take a player and teach him while he plays real matches ? Of course not.

Huddersfield took ESR because he was better than the players they had at their disposal. It allowed us to watch him get game time and it helped the team he was loaned to. No club takes a player on loan that is sub-standard to train them up.

There is a difference between training and coaching. Training is physical exercises, running, doggies, bleep tests, etc, coaching is learning how to do something, it could be shooting drills, crossing drills, half-volley drills. A coach is supposed to show you what you are doing wrong and how you can improve your technique.

You missed the entire point of training, its to familiarise yourself in doing something. If its positional training how many times in a match will that player be in that position ? When coached that player can be put in that situation over and over again until it sinks in. Lee Dixon said George Graham coached the players on positioning over and over and over so that they were able to do it with their eyes closed, they knew EXACTLY where each other would be. Set pieces are worked on in training over and over and on a match day you should see the effect of that training.

You are talking like players are old dogs, incapable of being shown something and replicating it. Why bother with coaches if its that difficult ? Every sport has coaches, every coach gives you drills for you to practice, thats how you improve. If Tavares is making the same mistakes it shouldn't be that difficult to correct that problem through coaching. We are talking about positioning and decision making, not how to strike a ball like Roberto Carlos.

[Santi]

No I’m not talking like that at all, you’re just not understanding the fact he needs to translate what he learns in training into matches…it’s very simple.

[theHotHead]

Thats fine and you are right, but he trains pretty much every day, so should be getting plenty of practice at it without having to learn in live games. I think 85- 90% of his learning will/should come from coaching, when you go on the pitch you shouldn't even need to think about it, it should be second nature.

Thats where me and you depart, I don't believe he should be learning on the pitch, I think he should be learning on the training ground. I don't see how he can be so bad if he has been coached by us, it looks like they just sent him out with an offensive remit and didn't bother to teach him how to defend properly.

[Power n Glory]

Whilst I can fully understand the logic of sending young developing players out on loan for a season or maybe even two if the circumstance of the first warrants it, to me, the primary objective of that action is to gain experience and game time at a higher and more professionally competitive level than is achievable playing reserves and U21's league football.

What I am failing to grasp here in regards to Tavares similarly being pointed in that direction, is that his glaring deficiency lies in his inability to defend effectively and consistently rather than a hindering lack of experience and being accustomed to playing against mature, seasoned professionals.

Unless the principles of coaching and training have now drastically changed since my involvement, and it's no longer a coaches job to identify the strengths and weaknesses to a player's game and impart ways in which to further develop and improve their qualities as well as eradicate faults and inadequacies to make them better and more functional and efficient as footballers, why aren't the issues he has being addressed by OUR coaching staff instead of effectively subcontracting the work out to someone else?

Well the problem is, while our coaches may be teaching him things to improve, we don’t want to take the chance on his mistakes costing us and would rather they cost another team out on loan.

I doubt the coaches just wake up every day and say hey nuno go running today. Of course they are trying to improve him but he needs chances to put it into practice and we can’t afford to give him that, not on a large enough scale.

Take the lessons, go hone the skills on loan (preferably under a defensive manager who can help) and come back to us better.

With all due respect Santi, the issue that I have with the premise of your theory is that it is contrary to pretty much what every professional football manager, coach and player has ever relayed, in that the really hard yards that they put in to win a match, cup or league, is done at the training ground, with the by-product of those efforts being the match day performance and not the other way round, whether you're Man City and Liverpool or Norwich and Watford.

The famous American quip of 'How do you get to Carnegie Hall?...Practice' rings true and as such it is what you show in training ground practice matches with and against your peers that influences managers to give opportunities to the likes of an embryonic Adams, Rocastle, Fabregas, Saka. Remember, some nine months or so ago, a large sway of the gooner nation were voicing the opinion that Nuno simply had to be retained as the starting left back since he'd performed so well and sod that Tierney was now once again fully fit and recovered from injury, so there is definitely a player within him.

The intention of loaning out young players who are largely an unknown entity is also supposed to benefit the loaning team by supplementing them with a player they'd otherwise be unlikely to accommodate, a bit like getting to buy something from Harrods when you're only accustomed to shopping at Tesco's and Aldi. At the same time, the likelihood would be that the loan was a waste of time for all parties given that the loanee team would be even less likely to tolerate harmful mistakes damaging a promotion push or encouraging the spectre of relegation and either way be more likely than not to get that manager sacked.

Good posts. Arteta is supposed to be good at developing young players and helping them understand their role on the pitch. That's been some of the feedback from the current crop. If Nuno can't cut it here then a loan move probably won't help either. It's also difficult to accommodate returning loan players even if they've performed well elsewhere.

[Losmeister]

Agree on loan idea

[Ach]

Brighton are considering a loan move for Arsenal's 22-year-old Portuguese left-back Nuno Tavares as they seek potential replacements for Manchester City target and Spain defender Marc Cucurella, 23. (O Jogo - in Portuguese) 

Swap deal with Cucurella

[Zenith]

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Anybody in the academy that could replace him in the squad? First choice would be Zinchenko/Tierney but we need a backup of Nuno is off

[TedLasso]

Anybody in the academy that could replace him in the squad? First choice would be Zinchenko/Tierney but we need a backup of Nuno is off

Walters looks ready. Not sure if he's a positional fit there but he seems capable.