Arteta Out

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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Angelito » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:40 pm

A quick scan through Transfermarkt reveals that Inter spent £266m since they hired Conte. Arsenal have spent £220m in the same time frame. Last summer alone, they spent £95m. We spent £76m.

Money clearly isn't the issue. Sure, we don't have the resources to win titles. We can't match City, Chelsea, and ManU. However, we have spent more than Liverpool, Leicester, and Spurs in these past two seasons.

Liverpool have splashed £473m since Klopp's first summer at Liverpool. In the same period, we've spent £530m.

It's not like if we hired Conte, he'd demand that we outspend other clubs as Pep does or Jose used to do.

Recently, Conte came out and stated that money doesn't matter to him. He wants a project. He wants a club that has a solitary objective and wants to work in achieving that.

Expectations have never been this low since the arrival of Wenger. Even when we were a UCL club, top-4 was considered the bare minimum by fans. That was during a period when we couldn't spend at all.

Today, the goal in itself is top-4 even amongst fans.

If we hire a competent manager, such a manager would help us punch above our weight. You can give Arteta £600m to spend this summer; we acquire Haaland, Mbappe, Grealish, Hakami, Camavinga, etc. Say, we win the League. Sure, we'd love it. But what does that say about Arteta?

Mancini and Pellegrini won league titles with Man City. They're not considered elite managers.

But Mikel won't receive such fundings. That's why it's essential we have a manager who can overachieve. Is Arteta that guy? I'm not sure.

We have spent significantly since Wenger's departure. Where we have failed at—is hiring top class managers. A team with world class players and a decent manager will achieve something. A team with decent players and a world class manager will achieve something significantly more.

Now, I'm not averse to Arteta. If the objective is to fight for EL, be content there, he's not a bad option. Under such circumstances, giving him another season isn't far-fetched.

Nonetheless, if Arsenal aspires to revert back to the "successes" of 10/11 until 16/17, I feel Arteta isn't the guy to achieve that.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Paddy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 6:34 pm

theHotHead wrote:I think the only real option is for Kroenke to pay his way out of this mess, KSE absorb the hit and move us forward. If we wait another 3 years to see if he comes good, we might be playing catch up for a longer period. At the very least we have to arrest the slide, I do not think Arteta is capable of doing so, I foresee 3 seasons of tepid football and bouncing around where we are now. With the players we have the very least we would end up in a leauge season is 10th, but II don't have confidence that Arteta can out-think teams that come to sit back. Its all well and good beating top teams that come at us by defending and nicking a goal here and there, but where we have been caught out is games we are expected to go out and attack, Arteta has shown time and time again that he is limited tactically.


a decent manager can get more out of these players.

look at the way tuchel turned chelsea's fortunes around.

this squad should not be finishing 8th two seasons in a row.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:12 pm

Half of this forum still thinks we are a top club that every player is dying to join. Finishing 8th twice doesn't matter!

Reality is not as kind.

Wesley Sneijder on André Onana: "European elite level? Yes, for sure. I prefer not to see him at Arsenal. It's a wonderful club but they've gone down hill in recent years. He would fit better at Real or Barca"

https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/98 ... pelen.html


Odegaard being our top target makes sense. Unproven, not valued at his parent club, but gets along with Arteta.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Nuggets » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:47 pm

aniym wrote:Half of this forum still thinks we are a top club that every player is dying to join. Finishing 8th twice doesn't matter!

Reality is not as kind.

Wesley Sneijder on André Onana: "European elite level? Yes, for sure. I prefer not to see him at Arsenal. It's a wonderful club but they've gone down hill in recent years. He would fit better at Real or Barca"

https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/98 ... pelen.html


Odegaard being our top target makes sense. Unproven, not valued at his parent club, but gets along with Arteta.


Oh well, that's ok then.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby ag6789 » Fri Jun 11, 2021 7:59 pm

Only problem is the current top managers need assurance regarding continuous investment. Otherwise they leave. Don't think the Kroenkes can provide that as they operate in a competitive legitimate business environment. So Arsenal need a manager who would be less high profile or at least less self obsessed and have practical long term plans in mind.
Arteta is a new comer no doubt, but his exploits like winning the FA cup and Comm Shield against top teams, tells me he is not as naive as he is made out to be. He has also managed to beat teams above us in the league, some comprehensively and others by attrition and luck.
But his greatest undoing has been lack of consistency especially against poorer teams.
Teams like Wolves, Burnley, Villa, Everton have done the double on him, which is clearly unacceptable. This has been due to partly his tactical naivity and partly failure ( bad judgement, careless behaviors) of his trusted senior players. His football, which is largely an extension of Wenger ball, isn't really out of place for us. It lacks the necessary ingredients like a quality CM and maybe a Sanchez like ACM. This is the type of game we have been playing for a long time and I don't see any benefit in ditching this. I think Arteta is a good learner and if he gets a couple of good midfielders, he would be doing much better because now some of the non performing/mal performing / whimsical seniors are out or are about to leave, the defense looking more solid, and hoping the strike force of Auba/Laca/Mertinelli stay in place.
I see no benefit in not giving MA another chance unless we get either a Rodgers or Bielsa type who have proven ability to succeed under modest conditions and might have long term plans.
Things might not be that gloomy as it is perceived to be.
But I'm talking for rational fans only. The nay sayers or ones w/agenda will never agree.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Paddy » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:06 pm

Nuggets wrote:
aniym wrote:Half of this forum still thinks we are a top club that every player is dying to join. Finishing 8th twice doesn't matter!

Reality is not as kind.

Wesley Sneijder on André Onana: "European elite level? Yes, for sure. I prefer not to see him at Arsenal. It's a wonderful club but they've gone down hill in recent years. He would fit better at Real or Barca"

https://www.voetbalprimeur.nl/nieuws/98 ... pelen.html


Odegaard being our top target makes sense. Unproven, not valued at his parent club, but gets along with Arteta.


Oh well, that's ok then.


:rofll:
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Ach » Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:07 pm

So we should never get rid of Arteta cos no one else might be up for it

Lol
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:54 pm

ag6789 wrote:Only problem is the current top managers need assurance regarding continuous investment. Otherwise they leave. Don't think the Kroenkes can provide that as they operate in a competitive legitimate business environment. So Arsenal need a manager who would be less high profile or at least less self obsessed and have practical long term plans in mind.
Arteta is a new comer no doubt, but his exploits like winning the FA cup and Comm Shield against top teams, tells me he is not as naive as he is made out to be. He has also managed to beat teams above us in the league, some comprehensively and others by attrition and luck.
But his greatest undoing has been lack of consistency especially against poorer teams.
Teams like Wolves, Burnley, Villa, Everton have done the double on him, which is clearly unacceptable. This has been due to partly his tactical naivity and partly failure ( bad judgement, careless behaviors) of his trusted senior players. His football, which is largely an extension of Wenger ball, isn't really out of place for us. It lacks the necessary ingredients like a quality CM and maybe a Sanchez like ACM. This is the type of game we have been playing for a long time and I don't see any benefit in ditching this. I think Arteta is a good learner and if he gets a couple of good midfielders, he would be doing much better because now some of the non performing/mal performing / whimsical seniors are out or are about to leave, the defense looking more solid, and hoping the strike force of Auba/Laca/Mertinelli stay in place.
I see no benefit in not giving MA another chance unless we get either a Rodgers or Bielsa type who have proven ability to succeed under modest conditions and might have long term plans.
Things might not be that gloomy as it is perceived to be.
But I'm talking for rational fans only. The nay sayers or ones w/agenda will never agree.


I don't agree that losses against lower table teams are because of naivete. They are the result of pigheadedness and hubris around his 'system', which is at best a pale imitation of Guardiola, right down the false #9 tactic. People enjoy watching Man City because they score a ton of goals, and even then, Pep has fallen flat on the biggest stage, the CL.

Arteta's store brand version of that has us scoring far less, which is why we lost those games, and fell out of Europe entirely.

Naive managers can still adjust their tactics when things aren't working. Arteta is not naive, he's a rigid ideologue who thinks there is a right way and a wrong way to score a goal.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jun 11, 2021 10:28 pm

Angelito is spot on, while people criticise Kroneke he has not prevented us from spending good money, its the idiots managing the club who keep making mistakes time and time again, its so boring now.

If you look at our spending on transfers since Kroenke gained full control you can see he has been supportive of our needs. So a Conte should be in no doubt that the owner has backed the manager and will continue to back the manager, he would have no reason to not believe he would get support in the transfer market, in fact.

We have been wank at transfers, in and out, that is the biggest problem, I can't blame the players, they are who they are, they play how they play, it up to the manager to determine our style of play and the personnel we get to execute it.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby swipe right » Fri Jun 11, 2021 11:48 pm

theHotHead wrote:Angelito is spot on, while people criticise Kroneke he has not prevented us from spending good money, its the idiots managing the club who keep making mistakes time and time again, its so boring now.

If you look at our spending on transfers since Kroenke gained full control you can see he has been supportive of our needs. So a Conte should be in no doubt that the owner has backed the manager and will continue to back the manager, he would have no reason to not believe he would get support in the transfer market, in fact.

We have been wank at transfers, in and out, that is the biggest problem, I can't blame the players, they are who they are, they play how they play, it up to the manager to determine our style of play and the personnel we get to execute it.

Had Kroenke spent between 2006-16 we’d be out of sight by now. We were so close those years. We just needed a couple of big signings to complement Cesc and RvP or Sanchez and Ozil but he never delivered. Now he’d have to spend 500 mil to rebuild a squad to challenge for the league. And we know he’d never do that.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby DiamondGooner » Sat Jun 12, 2021 2:32 am

theHotHead wrote:Angelito is spot on, while people criticise Kroneke he has not prevented us from spending good money, its the idiots managing the club who keep making mistakes time and time again, its so boring now.

If you look at our spending on transfers since Kroenke gained full control you can see he has been supportive of our needs. So a Conte should be in no doubt that the owner has backed the manager and will continue to back the manager, he would have no reason to not believe he would get support in the transfer market, in fact.

We have been wank at transfers, in and out, that is the biggest problem, I can't blame the players, they are who they are, they play how they play, it up to the manager to determine our style of play and the personnel we get to execute it.



.................. but HH, who hires the manager's and directors?

That's the real issue with Kroenke, you guys are right its not necessarily the money, its him being clueless about football and entrusting the very standards of the club to an Accountant, who in turn trusted the teams coaching to a guy who'd never managed before, its an absolute parody.

All I need to say is "Abramovich" that pretty much answers all the questions, you don't do well, you're gone ........... and by doing that he's twice now won the CL.

While we get "One more season" Stan.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Nuggets » Sat Jun 12, 2021 6:06 am

theHotHead wrote:Angelito is spot on, while people criticise Kroneke he has not prevented us from spending good money, its the idiots managing the club who keep making mistakes time and time again, its so boring now.

If you look at our spending on transfers since Kroenke gained full control you can see he has been supportive of our needs. So a Conte should be in no doubt that the owner has backed the manager and will continue to back the manager, he would have no reason to not believe he would get support in the transfer market, in fact.

We have been wank at transfers, in and out, that is the biggest problem, I can't blame the players, they are who they are, they play how they play, it up to the manager to determine our style of play and the personnel we get to execute it.

But sadly we have numpties who agreed that the clown should manage our club.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby Paddy » Sat Jun 12, 2021 7:50 am

DiamondGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Angelito is spot on, while people criticise Kroneke he has not prevented us from spending good money, its the idiots managing the club who keep making mistakes time and time again, its so boring now.

If you look at our spending on transfers since Kroenke gained full control you can see he has been supportive of our needs. So a Conte should be in no doubt that the owner has backed the manager and will continue to back the manager, he would have no reason to not believe he would get support in the transfer market, in fact.

We have been wank at transfers, in and out, that is the biggest problem, I can't blame the players, they are who they are, they play how they play, it up to the manager to determine our style of play and the personnel we get to execute it.



.................. but HH, who hires the manager's and directors?

That's the real issue with Kroenke, you guys are right its not necessarily the money, its him being clueless about football and entrusting the very standards of the club to an Accountant, who in turn trusted the teams coaching to a guy who'd never managed before, its an absolute parody.

All I need to say is "Abramovich" that pretty much answers all the questions, you don't do well, you're gone ........... and by doing that he's twice now won the CL.

While we get "One more season" Stan.


abramovich is a different beast compared to our tame cat.

he's ruthless, has clear vision and genuinely wants success. kroenke said he bought arsenal but he didnt buy arsenal to win trophies. that says it all.

for all of levy's faults, if you take a look at spurs' documentary you see a man that is involved in the day to day running of the club. he sits in the canteen and speaks to the manager, the fitness coach, the players... he is literally present every day. i sat in awe as i watched it not because i want our owner to be a replica of him, as levy has his faults, but my god if you're looking for someone that acts like a proper owner and actually gets involved in the business then he embodies that. ours is sat in america and doesnt give two f*cks about his asset.
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:53 am

Well that's the primary reason I want Kroenke out, I want someone with a real interest in. The club to own it, to be totally focused on it. I cannot blame Kroenke for anything else, he tried to take us to a new model to deliver football by devolving the manager's powers and it hasn't worked. First thing he should do is sack Arteta and bring in someone that has experience
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Re: Arteta Out

Postby theHotHead » Sun Jun 20, 2021 7:39 am

There can be no let up, this dickwad needs to go. Watch us squander £250m on a bag of foolishness.
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