Arteta Out

[DiamondGooner]

Villa have literally bought 2 players

lol ....... the excuses will just keep rolling until 22:59 September 1st

Just like it did in January, I remember seeing the glum faces on the AFTV podcast when we entered the last hour of Jan deadline day and they realised we were signing nobody, ziltch.

I'm not doing that this summer, I know we'll sign players obviously, but I'll just wait till their over the line, if they sign players late and we miss out on our proper targets then that'll just be a further indictment on Arteta and Edu in that they haven't changed.

............no "progress" so to speak.

[Highbury Hillbilly]

Villa so far:
-- Coutinho for £17m
-- Boubacar Kamara -- free
-- Diego Carlos from Sevilla - £26m

Gerrard is also talking to Luis Suarez at Atletico, who's also a free agent.

[VCC]

I hope it is not a case of selling players in order to get funds to buy, the way we sell players that will be a zero budget,
Leno has a 8m tag i think i had seen which seems low also

[theHotHead]

More like a negative budget, we seem to pay to give our players away!!

[Santi]

Why are we linked with Gnabry? Wing forward is hardly a priority

Well if were only signing one striker then it becomes more important.

Nketiah isn't gonna get us enough goals so we need an improvement on Martinelli in that regard. We also should be shifting Pepe and Nelson.

[starmandb]

Wenger had Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Bergkamp, Wright, Overmars, Pires, Vieira, Petit, Campbell, Cole, Lehmann, Gilberto, Ljungberg and the entire invincibles squad at his disposal and won three league titles and four FA Cups in the ten years before the stadium move.

He underachieved given some of the players he had. Three titles in ten years, no European trophies and four FA Cups. He inherited that back four, Bergkamp and Wright and a team who had won a title five years previously.

In nine years George Graham won two league titles, an FA Cup, two League Cups and one CWC. He had inherited a team that hadn't won a title for 15 years.

Arteta is in more of a George Graham situation imo. Comparisons to Wenger are unfair.

Very good points

Context matters.

First things first and just to be clear, I never said Wenger never underachieved. I said his performed at or above expectations more times than he performed below expectations during his time at Arsenal, and that’s assuming my view of a reasonable fans perspective.

Secondly, let’s view the trophies won by Wenger and Graham another way because we should not forget how Wenger treats the league cup. Using your facts and based on trophy difficulty, one can say that Wenger won 7 major trophies in 10 years while Graham won 4 in 9 years. 7 major trophies in 10 years supports my claim that Wenger rarely ever underachieved.

In terms of European trophies, Graham won a version of the Europa league, a competition that Wenger is rarely ever in because he’s constantly playing in a higher tier competition where the competition level is superior. I don’t know what the competition was like back when Graham was managing but I have a feeling it pales in comparison to the competition Wenger was up against. Google the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich when Wenger was competing with these teams for a European trophy and most fans would be hard pressed to fault Wenger for not winning a European trophy.

Graham inheriting a team that did not win a title in 15 years compared to Wenger inheriting a team that did not win a title in 5 years is fair and a point I’d gladly give to Graham over Wenger.

WRT Arteta: saying that his situation is more like Graham than Wenger does not take away from my point that Arteta has been underwhelming for most of his time at Arsenal.

Real Madrid were top of the UEFA team rankings in 93/94
They were in the cup winners cup that season
They were knocked out in the quarter final by psg who we beat in the semi final

[starmandb]

Wenger had Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Bergkamp, Wright, Overmars, Pires, Vieira, Petit, Campbell, Cole, Lehmann, Gilberto, Ljungberg and the entire invincibles squad at his disposal and won three league titles and four FA Cups in the ten years before the stadium move.

He underachieved given some of the players he had. Three titles in ten years, no European trophies and four FA Cups. He inherited that back four, Bergkamp and Wright and a team who had won a title five years previously.

In nine years George Graham won two league titles, an FA Cup, two League Cups and one CWC. He had inherited a team that hadn't won a title for 15 years.

Arteta is in more of a George Graham situation imo. Comparisons to Wenger are unfair.

Wenger only had the Famous back five because he developed them and breathed life into them. In the 1994/95 season they conceded 49 goals !!

Also, the situation when Wenger took over was literally identical to the situation Arteta took over from:
- Had to come in and pick up the pieces after a manager with legend status ran the club down
- The squad had some top talent and some talent simply not good enough, but both had a suitable shell on which to build from.
- Half of the fan base wanted the legend gone half didn't
- The club appointed a permanent manager but that ended up being a short-term appointment after he was sacked
- The were both unknown quantities, confidence was not high when either manager was appointed

Very true
Absolutely loved George but the bung thing was a total smokescreen
If the board and fans had been four square behind him he would have stayed
We have never been as bad at home as we were in that 94/95 season
Our fabled defence were ageing before our eyes
Wenger extended all there careers with his techniques with his methods
Just a shame the board were paralysed in taking action when he had gone over the edge
That was the time to get Ancelotti in 2011 when he had an understanding of how the premier league worked and Liam Brady who knew about the very fibre of Arsenal and an understanding of the Italian mentality
But we are where we are
Jury out still on Arteta for me
Improvements still needed in all areas of the pitch and the glimpses of a plan have been too rare for my liking

[starmandb]

The point about the Emirates is fair and not a deception as far as I understand.

The competition passed Wenger because of poor decision making made during this period, the period surrounding the move to the Emirates.

As a result Wenger was operating with one hand tied behind his back for years which initiated the downfall to where we find ourselves today

The Emirates point is a double-edged sword - we spent 390m on our stadium two decades ago.

Liverpool spent 110m on a new stand, 50m on a new training ground, another 100m on the Anfield Road stand - so 260m. Spuds spent over a Billion on there place. Are either of these teams now facing a massive drop in squad quality?

Sure the stadium cost money, but it undoubtedly has produced many times that cost in increased revenue since - is it just a lazy excuse for piss poor management?

Wenger himself said the stadium costs never impacted his team - so was he lying?

If Liverpool and Spurs next season drop down to 5th and 8th - because of their stadium spend - maybe it's a valid point, Anyone want to bet on that?

At the very beginning I followed the belief that the stadium was impacting us financially, but where I took a departure from that was when Wenger was making bad decisions that had nothing to do with being limited financially. Poor decisions on the pitch, paying kids hefty wages - if money was so tight why not use that money to buy proven players instead. So when things stopped making sense to me I knew the stadium argument was a crock of shit.

Agree again
The total naivety in certain games time and time again had nothing to do with spending power
It was a case of doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result

[starmandb]

Wenger had Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Bergkamp, Wright, Overmars, Pires, Vieira, Petit, Campbell, Cole, Lehmann, Gilberto, Ljungberg and the entire invincibles squad at his disposal and won three league titles and four FA Cups in the ten years before the stadium move.

He underachieved given some of the players he had. Three titles in ten years, no European trophies and four FA Cups. He inherited that back four, Bergkamp and Wright and a team who had won a title five years previously.

In nine years George Graham won two league titles, an FA Cup, two League Cups and one CWC. He had inherited a team that hadn't won a title for 15 years.

Arteta is in more of a George Graham situation imo. Comparisons to Wenger are unfair.

Very good points

Context matters.

First things first and just to be clear, I never said Wenger never underachieved. I said his performed at or above expectations more times than he performed below expectations during his time at Arsenal, and that’s assuming my view of a reasonable fans perspective.

Secondly, let’s view the trophies won by Wenger and Graham another way because we should not forget how Wenger treats the league cup. Using your facts and based on trophy difficulty, one can say that Wenger won 7 major trophies in 10 years while Graham won 4 in 9 years. 7 major trophies in 10 years supports my claim that Wenger rarely ever underachieved.

In terms of European trophies, Graham won a version of the Europa league, a competition that Wenger is rarely ever in because he’s constantly playing in a higher tier competition where the competition level is superior. I don’t know what the competition was like back when Graham was managing but I have a feeling it pales in comparison to the competition Wenger was up against. Google the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich when Wenger was competing with these teams for a European trophy and most fans would be hard pressed to fault Wenger for not winning a European trophy.

Graham inheriting a team that did not win a title in 15 years compared to Wenger inheriting a team that did not win a title in 5 years is fair and a point I’d gladly give to Graham over Wenger.

WRT Arteta: saying that his situation is more like Graham than Wenger does not take away from my point that Arteta has been underwhelming for most of his time at Arsenal.

Beating Parma in the CWC final, who were the overwhelming favourites to win the game, was like Wenger beating one of the top teams of now, in my opinion. Serie A was the top league, Italian football was very defensive. PSG had beaten Real Madrid in the QFs, we beat Torino at the same stage, Parma beat Benfica who were European giants. In the Semis we beat PSG and Parma just edged out Benfica.

Parma had finished 3rd in the season before qualifying for the CWC, behind AC Milan and Inter, in the season of the CWC final they finished 5th, behind Milan, Juve, Samp and Lazio. Lets remind ourselves of some of the players they had (I love a bit of nostalgia), Luca Bucci in goal, Bennarrivo and Sensini in defence, Brolin, Zola and Asprilia in attack. Contrast that to our midfield/attack - Kevin Campbell, Steve Morrow, Alan Smith, Paul Merson, Ian Selley

How the f**k did we win that game !!!

Winning an European trophy is certainly not easy, especially the Champions League or it’s equivalent. The stars really do have to align in many cases.

Those that do win one should only be lauded. It’s an achievement that should not be taken lightly

Also just want to put this out there because unless you’re an Arsenal fan it will be forgotten and that is that as far as I’m concerned Wenger may just as well have a CL trophy to his name.

The year we made it to CL finals with Wenger, we were robbed in my eyes. How anyone expects any team to beat a Barcelona side with the likes of Ronaldinho, Puyol, and Eto’o as well as challenging with only 10 men for the majority of the game is beyond me. We still only lost by one goal too.

As I said, Wenger may just as well have a CL trophy to his name. Don’t care what any books say.

That sounds so spursy mate
We lost in both the record books and in fact
We had a man sent off coz thems the rules
Barcelona scored twice we scored once we lost

[Arsenal Tone]

^ plus i could probably find a game this season we didn't deserve to lose and say arteta should have top four to his name. Utter BS

[VCC]

I am certain people watch a totally different broadcast to the games i see,
Had the German stayed on the park would we have won the CL Probably!
He didnt we lost end of story

[CrimsonGunner11]

Wenger had Seaman, Dixon, Bould, Adams, Winterburn, Bergkamp, Wright, Overmars, Pires, Vieira, Petit, Campbell, Cole, Lehmann, Gilberto, Ljungberg and the entire invincibles squad at his disposal and won three league titles and four FA Cups in the ten years before the stadium move.

He underachieved given some of the players he had. Three titles in ten years, no European trophies and four FA Cups. He inherited that back four, Bergkamp and Wright and a team who had won a title five years previously.

In nine years George Graham won two league titles, an FA Cup, two League Cups and one CWC. He had inherited a team that hadn't won a title for 15 years.

Arteta is in more of a George Graham situation imo. Comparisons to Wenger are unfair.

Very good points

Context matters.

First things first and just to be clear, I never said Wenger never underachieved. I said his performed at or above expectations more times than he performed below expectations during his time at Arsenal, and that’s assuming my view of a reasonable fans perspective.

Secondly, let’s view the trophies won by Wenger and Graham another way because we should not forget how Wenger treats the league cup. Using your facts and based on trophy difficulty, one can say that Wenger won 7 major trophies in 10 years while Graham won 4 in 9 years. 7 major trophies in 10 years supports my claim that Wenger rarely ever underachieved.

In terms of European trophies, Graham won a version of the Europa league, a competition that Wenger is rarely ever in because he’s constantly playing in a higher tier competition where the competition level is superior. I don’t know what the competition was like back when Graham was managing but I have a feeling it pales in comparison to the competition Wenger was up against. Google the likes of Barcelona, Real Madrid, and Bayern Munich when Wenger was competing with these teams for a European trophy and most fans would be hard pressed to fault Wenger for not winning a European trophy.

Graham inheriting a team that did not win a title in 15 years compared to Wenger inheriting a team that did not win a title in 5 years is fair and a point I’d gladly give to Graham over Wenger.

WRT Arteta: saying that his situation is more like Graham than Wenger does not take away from my point that Arteta has been underwhelming for most of his time at Arsenal.

Beating Parma in the CWC final, who were the overwhelming favourites to win the game, was like Wenger beating one of the top teams of now, in my opinion. Serie A was the top league, Italian football was very defensive. PSG had beaten Real Madrid in the QFs, we beat Torino at the same stage, Parma beat Benfica who were European giants. In the Semis we beat PSG and Parma just edged out Benfica.

Parma had finished 3rd in the season before qualifying for the CWC, behind AC Milan and Inter, in the season of the CWC final they finished 5th, behind Milan, Juve, Samp and Lazio. Lets remind ourselves of some of the players they had (I love a bit of nostalgia), Luca Bucci in goal, Bennarrivo and Sensini in defence, Brolin, Zola and Asprilia in attack. Contrast that to our midfield/attack - Kevin Campbell, Steve Morrow, Alan Smith, Paul Merson, Ian Selley

How the f**k did we win that game !!!

Winning an European trophy is certainly not easy, especially the Champions League or it’s equivalent. The stars really do have to align in many cases.

Those that do win one should only be lauded. It’s an achievement that should not be taken lightly

Also just want to put this out there because unless you’re an Arsenal fan it will be forgotten and that is that as far as I’m concerned Wenger may just as well have a CL trophy to his name.

The year we made it to CL finals with Wenger, we were robbed in my eyes. How anyone expects any team to beat a Barcelona side with the likes of Ronaldinho, Puyol, and Eto’o as well as challenging with only 10 men for the majority of the game is beyond me. We still only lost by one goal too.

As I said, Wenger may just as well have a CL trophy to his name. Don’t care what any books say.

That sounds so spursy mate
We lost in both the record books and in fact
We had a man sent off coz thems the rules
Barcelona scored twice we scored once we lost

What’d you say? I can’t hear you.

[theHotHead]

Anyone ????

[DiamondGooner]

Anyone ????

You'd have to have one huge set of balls on you ...................

[Ach]

Anyone ????

Anything less than the title is a disaster season so we will see