If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Nuggets » Wed May 26, 2021 12:04 pm

Paddy wrote:
Özim wrote:I think we’re a club of also fans living on former glories, the reality is we have won a PL since 2004, that’s 17 years, we’ve never won the CL, in that time Chelsea have won several leagues and the CL.

We have won the FA cup, but it’s not as major a trophy and not what it once was either.

As a club as this point we’re a nothing club, commercially we’ve been overtaken by all of the other top clubs and because of our lack of success no one without an affiliation to us is going to start supporting us.

Who is really interested in a midtable team on a downward spiral.

The reality is all we have is past glory, glory that took place almost 2 decades ago now, so much so that after coming midtable for 2 seasons running and with no European football, some fans find optimism in some pointless run that achieved nothing which coincided with failing to achieve anything and losing the key games.

When fans see that as a good thing you know you’re no longer a big club in anything but name, acceptance of mediocrity highlights how standards have fallen and how we’re no longer one of the major players.

A big club would be sacking the manager and taking decisive action to improve things, not sticking with the same formula and following a pipe dream that we’ve got Guardiola lite in charge. No other big club would be doing so little to put things right, because in the end big clubs strive for success, they don’t settle and reward mediocrity.


spot on

when you have low IQ fans getting excited about a good spell despite the quagmire of crap we find ourselves in it shows how far we have fallen.


Amen to that lads, we are pitiful at the minute.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Ach » Wed May 26, 2021 12:20 pm

Santi wrote:No

Never has a truer word been spoken
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby CaptGooner » Wed May 26, 2021 12:33 pm

Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

Very true. It’s a slow decline but can already see the impact with our ‘most valuable club’ ranking plummeting each year.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby jayramfootball » Wed May 26, 2021 2:20 pm

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

That is absolutely not true, if it were our fanbase would've disappeared and it hasn't, Man U's would've before Fergie got his success and Liverpool's would've been decimated before they just won the league - and it definitely hasn't.

HH - it’s a slow decline. Today’s global fans follow players. They have no interest in north London rivalries or the like. We benefited from the likes of Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp because they attracted fans from all over. Even guys like Partey and Saliba have pictures of themselves as kids in Arsenal kits. That’s going to slowly decline if we fill our ranks with mediocrity. The next gen of fans will want to go where the attractive players are.


Our club has been through 2 periods in our history of no league title for 18 years.
Also don't care if we lose some plastic fans who want to switch to supporting Chelsea.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby CaptGooner » Wed May 26, 2021 2:53 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

That is absolutely not true, if it were our fanbase would've disappeared and it hasn't, Man U's would've before Fergie got his success and Liverpool's would've been decimated before they just won the league - and it definitely hasn't.

HH - it’s a slow decline. Today’s global fans follow players. They have no interest in north London rivalries or the like. We benefited from the likes of Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp because they attracted fans from all over. Even guys like Partey and Saliba have pictures of themselves as kids in Arsenal kits. That’s going to slowly decline if we fill our ranks with mediocrity. The next gen of fans will want to go where the attractive players are.


Our club has been through 2 periods in our history of no league title for 18 years.
Also don't care if we lose some plastic fans who want to switch to supporting Chelsea.

We’re not talking plastic fans, we’re talking future fans. We continue to fall down the ‘Most Valuable’ list, with clubs like Chelsea increasing the disparity between us. To think underperforming has no impact is insane.

At least with Wenger when we weren’t winning, we at least had a certain style/flair.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Wed May 26, 2021 5:00 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Our club has been through 2 periods in our history of no league title for 18 years.
Also don't care if we lose some plastic fans who want to switch to supporting Chelsea.


You're missing the forest for the trees.

The 18-year gap happened at a time when people had 5 channels on TV and computers weighed 20 pounds.

Wenger's arrival in '96 ensured a decade of progress, in terms of trophies and international marketability. I am in Canada and began following Arsenal after WC '98, watching players like Vieira and Petit lift the trophy. Playing FIFA games kept me connected to the club before the age of widespread internet access and social media.

Things are completely different now. We haven't challenged for the league in years. It took us 4 years to go from no Champions League to no Europa League. In another 5 years we could well have bottomed out and become a perma-fixture in the lower half of the table.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Salibatelli » Wed May 26, 2021 5:22 pm

This club is only a big club in name these days, you won’t find one other big club that settles for what we’ve settled for over the years, the sheer lack of ambition is shocking.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Angelito » Wed May 26, 2021 5:59 pm

theHotHead wrote:Arsenal FC:
League Champions - 13 times
League Cup winners - 2 times
FA Cup Winners - 14 times
UEFA CWC winners - 1 time
UEFA Fairs Cup - 1 time

Total - 31 major honours

Chelsea:
League Champions - 6 times
FA Cup Winners - 8 times
League Cup Winners - 5 times
UEFA CL Winners - 1 time
UEFA EL Winners - 2 times
UEFA CWC Winners - 2 times
UEFA Super Cup Winners - 1 time

Total - 25 major honours

To be honest I thought there was much more daylight between us :shock:

Their European honours puts them on a par with us as it stands ......... A Chelsea CL win would be curtains for us.


Of course. They've won 14 trophies since we moved to the Emirates as compared to our 4 FA Cups.

We are a domestic giant and will remain so. But as things stand, they are catching up on us. While they continue to invest and hire ambitious managers, we waste money and hire mediocre managers, who arrive with a sense of misplaced superiority.

The same Unai Emery who couldn't beat Arsenal in the UCL with his decorated PSG walks in and tries to make a statement on how the club should be run; shows how he is big daddy by alienating Ozil. Arteta arrives and acts like he is out savior and is here to take Arsenal to its rightful place—behind Man City. Wasn't he on City's bench when we beat them in the FA Cup SF?

No club allows some two-dollar manager to come in and shit on the club. We allowed it twice. And, the managers were... A man who had been bullied out of PSG and a man who hadn't managed at all!

These Arsenal owners have no idea how big we are. If they did, Arteta would have been sacked by December. If they did, they wouldn't be afraid of hiring world class managers.

Under the Kroenkes, I can only see Arsenal plummetting further. They have no idea how historic this club is and they've enabled people like Mikel and Edu to treat the club as a circus project.


swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


For over a decade, even at the Emirates, we were the hipster club because we played such attacking, beautiful football, and were the nearly there club.

As you said, between '06 and '16, we had Cesc, van Persie, Rosicky, Ozil, Cazorla, and Alexis, who were top class players, world class players. Even Messi wanted to join us as late as in 2016 if the contract with Barca hadn't worked out.

Today, we barely have any world class players. Even if one would consider last season's Auba a worldie, he's no Ozil/Cesc/Alexis/van Persie. We don't play attractive football anymore. We're not even in Europe. The 180 this club has taken since the days of Wenger has accelerated our downfall.

You hit the nail on the head when you wrote about the new generation of fans not being enamored by Arsenal.

Even when we weren't winning trophies after we moved to the Emirates, we were lot more attractive than almost every Italian side despite Serie A being the crown jewel of the 90s.

If Chelsea and City didn't bulldoze the league, a hell lot of players like Aguero, Hazard, Silva, Yaya, etc., would most likely be Gunners.

We are a bigger club than Chelsea. We will remain so even if they win a second UCL. But that doesn't mean we will continue to remain bigger than them. The size and aura of a club is more than trophies. We have the history, we have the fanbase, we have those incredible successes. But it won't last forever. Not under this administration. Not under these owners. Definitely not with this manager.


Özim wrote:I think we’re a club of also fans living on former glories, the reality is we have won a PL since 2004, that’s 17 years, we’ve never won the CL, in that time Chelsea have won several leagues and the CL.


As dumb as I think most Gooners are, I think that's one thing we're not hung up on. We do love to cherish our history, and rightfully so, but compared to those Scousers or ManU fans, we're a lot better on that regard.

You have ManU fans bringing up history everytime anyone criticizes them. Liverpool won one League title and all of sudden, the storyline asked if it's the greatest league campaign in Prem history.

I can't think of a more obnoxious bunch than those Liverpool fans.

People love to accuse City and Chelsea of buying those countless titles and trophies. But by God, it was ManU who got that first break in the Sky-era of the Premier League. They wanted ManU and Liverpool to be the domestic versions of Barca and Real. Only party poopers, Arsenal, crashed the party and changed English football.

Gooners are dumb in a lot of ways, but they're not proud custodians—even stupidly so—of their history.

We've been hated by pundits and media. We were hated when we reached the UCL Final. For those imbeciles, we were always the foreign club. When we were fighting for top-4, they made a joke out of us. Today, Chelsea and Liverpool squeeze into the top-4 on the final day of the season, and it's like they've won a trophy.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby theHotHead » Wed May 26, 2021 6:09 pm

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

That is absolutely not true, if it were our fanbase would've disappeared and it hasn't, Man U's would've before Fergie got his success and Liverpool's would've been decimated before they just won the league - and it definitely hasn't.

HH - it’s a slow decline. Today’s global fans follow players. They have no interest in north London rivalries or the like. We benefited from the likes of Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp because they attracted fans from all over. Even guys like Partey and Saliba have pictures of themselves as kids in Arsenal kits. That’s going to slowly decline if we fill our ranks with mediocrity. The next gen of fans will want to go where the attractive players are.

No idea where you are getting your info from but based on the number of people I see wearing Arsenal shirts in North London daily and the fact that everyone in my family that were Arsenal fans who have had kids, who are Arsenal fans too, I don't see the decline.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Va-Va-Voom » Wed May 26, 2021 6:30 pm

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

That is absolutely not true, if it were our fanbase would've disappeared and it hasn't, Man U's would've before Fergie got his success and Liverpool's would've been decimated before they just won the league - and it definitely hasn't.

HH - it’s a slow decline. Today’s global fans follow players. They have no interest in north London rivalries or the like. We benefited from the likes of Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp because they attracted fans from all over. Even guys like Partey and Saliba have pictures of themselves as kids in Arsenal kits. That’s going to slowly decline if we fill our ranks with mediocrity. The next gen of fans will want to go where the attractive players are.

No idea where you are getting your info from but based on the number of people I see wearing Arsenal shirts in North London daily and the fact that everyone in my family that were Arsenal fans who have had kids, who are Arsenal fans too, I don't see the decline.


Difference between generational support in families/North London and picking up new fans all around the world with no connection to the club.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Ach » Wed May 26, 2021 6:35 pm

I see a lot of people wearing City tops in London these days whereas 15 years ago there were barely any.

These are full grown people as well so they were either too ashamed to come out with their city tops on or more likely they changed teams.

Sure some might have moved down to London for work or whatever but doubt that's the case for every single one.

I was the first Arsenal fan in my family and from that my cousins have followed me. All blame me for the shit they go through as fans cos Arsenal are awful these days (apart from the magical past 5 months) but there's no thought on changing. Their kids when they have them will be gooners as well.

Arsenal will not die.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby ag6789 » Wed May 26, 2021 7:19 pm

Peoplr who change teams based on success cannot be called serious fans and are plastic in nature. The lesser the better. Not concerned about loss of fans at all. Anyway, no matter who manages this team or whoever the owner is, it is going to be a hard climb. Nowadays unless you have unaccounted money to burn, begotten from shady countries, by shady means, it is difficult to succeed on regular basis. Other big clubs like 'Pool had to wait 30 yrs, even the other big one ManU are adrift for 8yrs and counting. Pull the hatches down, be hopeful and enjoy the ups and downs.
Once in a while pine about the good old Wenger days, and why we moaned and groaned about small failings.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby Salibatelli » Wed May 26, 2021 7:41 pm

We’re not talking about loss of fans we’re talking about the gaining of new fans, people with no affiliation with Arsenal, particularly abroad won’t choose to follow Arsenal, people might not care but financially it’s a big hit

Teams that win get more fans because people want to watch and enjoy watching them, clubs like Arsenal these days aren’t good to watch or successful, that’s a bad recipe.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby jayramfootball » Wed May 26, 2021 8:17 pm

Özim wrote:We’re not talking about loss of fans we’re talking about the gaining of new fans, people with no affiliation with Arsenal, particularly abroad won’t choose to follow Arsenal, people might not care but financially it’s a big hit

Teams that win get more fans because people want to watch and enjoy watching them, clubs like Arsenal these days aren’t good to watch or successful, that’s a bad recipe.



Couldn't care less about someone in the US, Far East or any other foreign country when it comes to whether they support Arsenal.
It's not a big part of our revenue anyway.
If they want to support someone else, who cares?
Let Chelsea be a worldwide brand in the minds of the social media generation plastics if they want (LOL).

That said, the popularity of a team worldwide has much more to it than who won the CL last year.
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Re: If Chelsea win the CL again, are they officially bigger?

Postby swipe right » Wed May 26, 2021 9:03 pm

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Va-Va-Voom wrote:
swipe right wrote:The best players no longer play at Arsenal. Even when we weren’t winning, players like Cesc, RvP, Ozil, Sanchez, Cazorla were the best players in their respective positions. That’s no longer the case and therefore we are no longer a big club. Size of stadium and fan base accounts for little. The latter will slowly dwindle as the next gen of fans won’t choose us.


Exactly

That is absolutely not true, if it were our fanbase would've disappeared and it hasn't, Man U's would've before Fergie got his success and Liverpool's would've been decimated before they just won the league - and it definitely hasn't.

HH - it’s a slow decline. Today’s global fans follow players. They have no interest in north London rivalries or the like. We benefited from the likes of Henry, Vieira and Bergkamp because they attracted fans from all over. Even guys like Partey and Saliba have pictures of themselves as kids in Arsenal kits. That’s going to slowly decline if we fill our ranks with mediocrity. The next gen of fans will want to go where the attractive players are.

No idea where you are getting your info from but based on the number of people I see wearing Arsenal shirts in North London daily and the fact that everyone in my family that were Arsenal fans who have had kids, who are Arsenal fans too, I don't see the decline.

I have no info. But I do have common sense. Not everyone follows a football club out of legacy or community. The majority become football fans in their teens and choose clubs that they see as successful and over time become attached to them. Only an idiot would fall in love with Arsenal at this stage. City, Chelsea, Liverpool are far more attractive options because of their style of football, marque players and hunger for trophies. Even United don’t have the same draw they once did. Of course this can all change overnight if we get our act together and start playing exciting, winning football. But that seems less and less likely with every passing year.
Last edited by swipe right on Wed May 26, 2021 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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