2021 Summer Transfer Window

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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby swipe right » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:32 am

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I say again, Welbeck was Brighton's best player last season, I don't even remember Ben White. Tells me all I need to know about that.

HH - he’s likely a good player. Highly rated by Bielsa and Leeds where he was loaned. But he’s had one top flight season. If Arteta said I need a highly experienced world class CB like Varane for 50 mil to come in and stabilize the back line I would say sure. But this is another punt on the future and a bloody expensive one. Changing Holding for White is not going to move us up one single position on the league table.

Its interesting that Transfermarkt has his value at £25m, some common sense prevaileth. Why does it matter what Bielsa thinks ? I couldn't care less. with my own eyes the players didn't stand out.

I agree with you on the price and his immediate impact but I think there is a good player in him. Ironically everything positive said about him reminds me of Vermaelan who I recall we bought for 10 mil was it?
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 9:42 am

Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
Özim wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Jay ........ :sick:


:dontknow:

I like what I see.
There is real change in the air...and long overdue.
Arteta is building a young team that we should be getting behind.

Gabriel 23
Tierney 24
ESR 20
Saka 19
Sambi 21
Tavares 21
Martinelli 20

We'll see about Balogun also - whether he can step up.
If Ben White joins? he's 23

I find this to be exactly what was required.
I see a proper rebuild.
Now, of course, Arteta has to give all these guys a decent chance and in some cases build around them , like Gabriel, ESR, Saka and Martinelli.

Don't talk to me about big names either. Players like Mahrez and Kante were not big names when Leicester spotted them and brought them in.
Our fans need to get over their longing for so called ready made 'stars'


Leicester’s scouring system is top notch, ours isn’t.


We'll see how our new signings do.
Until then talk of them being not good enough is nonsense.


Likewise it’s premature to talk about real change in the air, a couple nobodies and a 50 million defender who a lot of people had never even noticed before he got picked for England don’t signify “real change”.

Out of all our new signings, Saliba was the one I was really excited about in recent years, a CB with world or potential according to most sources, just a shame Arteta chose to ignore him for some unknown reason.


Stop with the Saliba stuff.
Even his new coach has said he has a lot to learn.
It simply seems like he is not ready for the PL.

It's not a surprise, though, that the one you were excited about is the one Arteta didn't want.. even though he is just as much of a 'nobody' as the players we are signing.

Forget about Saliba, he's gone.
Tavares, Sambi and possibly Ben White - they are the players we should be hoping do well for us. I suspect 2 or 3 more will be coming in too.


Thing is Saliba came with a high reputation and has backed it up since we signed him.

None of the three players we’ve signed have been touted as highly, even White who cost a lot was relatively under the radar.

I don’t for one second believe Saliba wasn’t ready, for what we’ve seen there’s little evidence of that either, as has been said before, Fofana came from the same club was the same age and wasn’t rated as highly and excelled in the PL for Leicester.

I’m not expecting much from the signings we made to honest, two of them are not PL ready or established enough anyway and the other one is a player I wouldn’t have chosen to sign.

You might be excited, personally I’m not by these players, it would be different if these young players were being recognised as some of the biggest young talents in Europe, but they’re not really.


Not the first time you have used Fofana as a comparison.
Saliba is not Fofana.
Your argument is like a club chasing after Reiss Nelson on the basis that he must be good because Saka had a good season.

I honestly don't know how you could place a kid like Saliba ahead of White, 3 years older having performed very well in England for the last 2 years for Leeds and Brighton and having been called up for the England national team. Saliba hasn't even been able to lock down a place in the France U20 team and hardly appeared for the U19s

Looks to me like we got conned into buying him.
At best, all we can say is we don't know if he's any good.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 10:59 am

swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I say again, Welbeck was Brighton's best player last season, I don't even remember Ben White. Tells me all I need to know about that.

HH - he’s likely a good player. Highly rated by Bielsa and Leeds where he was loaned. But he’s had one top flight season. If Arteta said I need a highly experienced world class CB like Varane for 50 mil to come in and stabilize the back line I would say sure. But this is another punt on the future and a bloody expensive one. Changing Holding for White is not going to move us up one single position on the league table.

Its interesting that Transfermarkt has his value at £25m, some common sense prevaileth. Why does it matter what Bielsa thinks ? I couldn't care less. with my own eyes the players didn't stand out.

I agree with you on the price and his immediate impact but I think there is a good player in him. Ironically everything positive said about him reminds me of Vermaelan who I recall we bought for 10 mil was it?

If he turns out to be a good buy, great, but our transfer dealings for the past 5 or so seasons have been dreadful, I don't have any confidence whatsoever with the management team.

Our best players have cost us next to nothing, FACT !
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:05 am

jayramfootball wrote:Not the first time you have used Fofana as a comparison.
Saliba is not Fofana.
Your argument is like a club chasing after Reiss Nelson on the basis that he must be good because Saka had a good season.

I honestly don't know how you could place a kid like Saliba ahead of White, 3 years older having performed very well in England for the last 2 years for Leeds and Brighton and having been called up for the England national team. Saliba hasn't even been able to lock down a place in the France U20 team and hardly appeared for the U19s

Looks to me like we got conned into buying him.
At best, all we can say is we don't know if he's any good.

Jay, the Saliba/Fofana comparison is based on Saliba being the player that was rated higher of the 2. Also, Saliba was highly rated outside of France and there was lots of talk about clubs wanting him which would explain his high buying price. He was a hot prospect that we were lucky to get, only to see him overlooked by an idiot of a manager. Arteta's opinion means f**k all to me especially when I consider Willian, Auba and a plethora of player's form all dived while playing for Arteta. If his operational mode is "buy buy buy" he is a shit manager ! If he cannot develop/grow players, he needs to go, I don't want Arsenal to become a chequebook club.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 11:12 am

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Not the first time you have used Fofana as a comparison.
Saliba is not Fofana.
Your argument is like a club chasing after Reiss Nelson on the basis that he must be good because Saka had a good season.

I honestly don't know how you could place a kid like Saliba ahead of White, 3 years older having performed very well in England for the last 2 years for Leeds and Brighton and having been called up for the England national team. Saliba hasn't even been able to lock down a place in the France U20 team and hardly appeared for the U19s

Looks to me like we got conned into buying him.
At best, all we can say is we don't know if he's any good.

Jay, the Saliba/Fofana comparison is based on Saliba being the player that was rated higher of the 2. Also, Saliba was highly rated outside of France and there was lots of talk about clubs wanting him which would explain his high buying price. He was a hot prospect that we were lucky to get, only to see him overlooked by an idiot of a manager. Arteta's opinion means f**k all to me especially when I consider Willian, Auba and a plethora of player's form all dived while playing for Arteta. If his operational mode is "buy buy buy" he is a shit manager ! If he cannot develop/grow players, he needs to go, I don't want Arsenal to become a chequebook club.


Yeah and 18 months ago Nelson was more highly touted than Saka, so was Nketiah.
Citing that Fofana did quite well at Leicester is a poor reason to believe that Saliba was/is ready.
Do you want me to make a list of our highly rated 17/18 year olds that turned out to be way off the required level?

I guarantee you that we'd have the same people blame Arteta if the kid played and made mistakes.
Just find it amazing that all the players we have actually signed, or seem likely to, are written off as rubbish - whilst a kid who's been dumped for being not good enough (proper assessment or not, that is what happened) and never played in the PL and no one really knows much about is being lorded as some superstar.

FWIW I also think Saliba should have been given a chance, but he's gone.
These decisions will be assessed in the coming season, not by some agenda to make everything Arteta's fault.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby swipe right » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:00 pm

theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
swipe right wrote:
theHotHead wrote:I say again, Welbeck was Brighton's best player last season, I don't even remember Ben White. Tells me all I need to know about that.

HH - he’s likely a good player. Highly rated by Bielsa and Leeds where he was loaned. But he’s had one top flight season. If Arteta said I need a highly experienced world class CB like Varane for 50 mil to come in and stabilize the back line I would say sure. But this is another punt on the future and a bloody expensive one. Changing Holding for White is not going to move us up one single position on the league table.

Its interesting that Transfermarkt has his value at £25m, some common sense prevaileth. Why does it matter what Bielsa thinks ? I couldn't care less. with my own eyes the players didn't stand out.

I agree with you on the price and his immediate impact but I think there is a good player in him. Ironically everything positive said about him reminds me of Vermaelan who I recall we bought for 10 mil was it?

If he turns out to be a good buy, great, but our transfer dealings for the past 5 or so seasons have been dreadful, I don't have any confidence whatsoever with the management team.

Our best players have cost us next to nothing, FACT !

Not a player you say, HH?

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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Phil71 » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:17 pm

I remember when signings were celebrated. People got excited about them. It was nothing but a positive thing.

Now they analyse them to death and even make ludicrous suggestions about money laundering and all sorts.

Oh well...
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 12:53 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Not the first time you have used Fofana as a comparison.
Saliba is not Fofana.
Your argument is like a club chasing after Reiss Nelson on the basis that he must be good because Saka had a good season.

I honestly don't know how you could place a kid like Saliba ahead of White, 3 years older having performed very well in England for the last 2 years for Leeds and Brighton and having been called up for the England national team. Saliba hasn't even been able to lock down a place in the France U20 team and hardly appeared for the U19s

Looks to me like we got conned into buying him.
At best, all we can say is we don't know if he's any good.

Jay, the Saliba/Fofana comparison is based on Saliba being the player that was rated higher of the 2. Also, Saliba was highly rated outside of France and there was lots of talk about clubs wanting him which would explain his high buying price. He was a hot prospect that we were lucky to get, only to see him overlooked by an idiot of a manager. Arteta's opinion means f**k all to me especially when I consider Willian, Auba and a plethora of player's form all dived while playing for Arteta. If his operational mode is "buy buy buy" he is a shit manager ! If he cannot develop/grow players, he needs to go, I don't want Arsenal to become a chequebook club.


Yeah and 18 months ago Nelson was more highly touted than Saka, so was Nketiah.
Citing that Fofana did quite well at Leicester is a poor reason to believe that Saliba was/is ready.
Do you want me to make a list of our highly rated 17/18 year olds that turned out to be way off the required level?

I guarantee you that we'd have the same people blame Arteta if the kid played and made mistakes.
Just find it amazing that all the players we have actually signed, or seem likely to, are written off as rubbish - whilst a kid who's been dumped for being not good enough (proper assessment or not, that is what happened) and never played in the PL and no one really knows much about is being lorded as some superstar.

FWIW I also think Saliba should have been given a chance, but he's gone.
These decisions will be assessed in the coming season, not by some agenda to make everything Arteta's fault.

Not even the same discussion. Saka in his first full season was better than Nelson in his first full season. Not only that but both Fofana and Saliba, as is my understanding, were playing in the same first team, in France, so a direct comparison during that period is a far more accurate picture than Nelson who is older than Saka and had been out on loan in the Bundesliga too.

Terrible example/comparison from you Jay.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 1:42 pm

theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:Not the first time you have used Fofana as a comparison.
Saliba is not Fofana.
Your argument is like a club chasing after Reiss Nelson on the basis that he must be good because Saka had a good season.

I honestly don't know how you could place a kid like Saliba ahead of White, 3 years older having performed very well in England for the last 2 years for Leeds and Brighton and having been called up for the England national team. Saliba hasn't even been able to lock down a place in the France U20 team and hardly appeared for the U19s

Looks to me like we got conned into buying him.
At best, all we can say is we don't know if he's any good.

Jay, the Saliba/Fofana comparison is based on Saliba being the player that was rated higher of the 2. Also, Saliba was highly rated outside of France and there was lots of talk about clubs wanting him which would explain his high buying price. He was a hot prospect that we were lucky to get, only to see him overlooked by an idiot of a manager. Arteta's opinion means f**k all to me especially when I consider Willian, Auba and a plethora of player's form all dived while playing for Arteta. If his operational mode is "buy buy buy" he is a shit manager ! If he cannot develop/grow players, he needs to go, I don't want Arsenal to become a chequebook club.


Yeah and 18 months ago Nelson was more highly touted than Saka, so was Nketiah.
Citing that Fofana did quite well at Leicester is a poor reason to believe that Saliba was/is ready.
Do you want me to make a list of our highly rated 17/18 year olds that turned out to be way off the required level?

I guarantee you that we'd have the same people blame Arteta if the kid played and made mistakes.
Just find it amazing that all the players we have actually signed, or seem likely to, are written off as rubbish - whilst a kid who's been dumped for being not good enough (proper assessment or not, that is what happened) and never played in the PL and no one really knows much about is being lorded as some superstar.

FWIW I also think Saliba should have been given a chance, but he's gone.
These decisions will be assessed in the coming season, not by some agenda to make everything Arteta's fault.

Not even the same discussion. Saka in his first full season was better than Nelson in his first full season. Not only that but both Fofana and Saliba, as is my understanding, were playing in the same first team, in France, so a direct comparison during that period is a far more accurate picture than Nelson who is older than Saka and had been out on loan in the Bundesliga too.

Terrible example/comparison from you Jay.


Terrible as inconvenient.
No one in their right mind would rate a player based on what a completely different player has done over the last 2 years.
Madness.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:43 pm

Its as close to comparing apples to apples as you can get Jay ! They were both CBs in the same first team in France.

If that comparison is bad where do you think your Saka/Nelson comparison ranks then ?!!!
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby theHotHead » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:48 pm

Phil71 wrote:I remember when signings were celebrated. People got excited about them. It was nothing but a positive thing.

Now they analyse them to death and even make ludicrous suggestions about money laundering and all sorts.

Oh well...

Aaah yes, the good old days, when a manager knew what the hell he was doing ......... I too yearn for those days again .......
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby aniym » Tue Jul 20, 2021 2:56 pm

Phil71 wrote:I remember when signings were celebrated. People got excited about them. It was nothing but a positive thing.

Now they analyse them to death and even make ludicrous suggestions about money laundering and all sorts.

Oh well...


We are signing exclusively midtable players, after finishing midtable 2 years in a row.

I'll celebrate when ESR signs a new deal.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Angelito » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:23 pm

theHotHead wrote:I say again, Welbeck was Brighton's best player last season, I don't even remember Ben White. Tells me all I need to know about that.


From what I've read, he's amazing with the ball on his feet. Poor in the air apparently. Pretty good defender.

If he's half as good as Gerard Piqué, we have a baller in our hands. But if he's Mustafi redux, well, that's that. Mind you, Piqué is one of the most technical defenders I've seen. Smart as hell too.

As long as White is a high IQ center-back, like say, Mertesacker, we're pretty good.
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jul 20, 2021 4:30 pm

theHotHead wrote:Its as close to comparing apples to apples as you can get Jay ! They were both CBs in the same first team in France.

If that comparison is bad where do you think your Saka/Nelson comparison ranks then ?!!!


Neither rank at all - both irrelevant.
Just because 2 18 yr olds play in the same team and look decent for the league they are in, it doesn't mean they will both turn out to be PL level defenders.
I mean I shouldn't have to say this, really. They are two different people!
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Re: 2021 Summer Transfer Window

Postby Özim » Tue Jul 20, 2021 6:43 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
theHotHead wrote:Its as close to comparing apples to apples as you can get Jay ! They were both CBs in the same first team in France.

If that comparison is bad where do you think your Saka/Nelson comparison ranks then ?!!!


Neither rank at all - both irrelevant.
Just because 2 18 yr olds play in the same team and look decent for the league they are in, it doesn't mean they will both turn out to be PL level defenders.
I mean I shouldn't have to say this, really. They are two different people!


Saliba was rated higher, Fofana has excelled, Saliba has continued to excel when he’s played.

Your argument is very weak indeed on this one, firstly Arteta has shown he’s pretty poor overall, his ability to judge a players ability has been rightly brought into question many times, why would you or anyone trust this guy who has shown to be so incompetent, it’s beyond reason.

The proof is in the pudding, Saliba has done everything he could have done to get his chance, only Arteta thinks he doesn’t deserved a chance, I can’t think of one logical reason, nor can I think of one logical reason to send him back to France again even if you do loan him out.

I’m sorry but Arteta has made so many nonsensical decisions it’s untrue, for some odd reason you still support and defend him even on this subject when anyone with eyes can see Arteta clearly has an issue with him and that’s just not right.

Also the only person who rated Nketiah is you, everyone else thought he was rubbish.
Last edited by Özim on Tue Jul 20, 2021 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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