Benjamin White (4)

[jayramfootball]

Maybe we should’ve spent even more on the defence and gotten a new left back. With a better left back we could’ve not only conceded less but also increased our chance creation down the left side.

Everyone knew tierney was made of glass and that was the real priority.

Are you Arteta's twin or something ???

Here is a novel idea ... how about we spend some money on offensive players to improve our offensive capability instead of relying on the defence to do it

Here's a fact: Offensively our players have scored a good amount of goals this year - EXCEPT the CF.

Are you trying to sell the idea that there was a big demand to sell Auba in the summer?

Arteta's plan worked almost in it's entirety EXCEPT we didn't get the goals we expected from the CF position - which very few thought we needed to replace anyway. Hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[theHotHead]

White wasn't required, he has turned into an excellent CB, but he wasn't required Jay, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

We didn't need him, we spent shitloads on him but other areas had greater concern for us.

Like PSG buying Salah, they don't need him but no doubt he would be magnificent for them.

We needed CM cover, we needed a dominant CF. We conceded 51 goals in Wenger's last season compared to our peers who were in the 20s and 30s. Emery conceded 51 goals in his only full season, compared to 20s and 30s of our peers. In the abomination season that Arteta joined we conceded 48 goals but our peers conceded in the 30s, 40s and 50s !!! In Arteta's first full season we conceded 39 goals, our peers conceded in the 30s and 40s, in fact, the team with the best defence were Man City and they conceded 32 goals.

We managed this without Ramsdale, without Tomiyasu and without White, so there is no way you can tell me a £50m CB was a priority for us this season Jay !! Your argument is torn to more shreds when you see that we have conceded 37 goals already this season and we have 7 games to go !! We spent all that money and are getting a worse return !

CB was absolutely required and RB.
We also needed a Tierney back up.
Holding is and never was good enough to be a starter and Bellerin was shit.
We also lost David Luiz.
You are saying you would have gone into this season with Holding and Bellerin? Chambers as a back up?
All I can say is thank god you are not the manager.

We already discussed the 'need' for a CF - you had no answer...unless you want to claim that there was a big clamour to replace Aubameyang?
We were however discussing the need to replace Bellerin - so not sure why we have to try and revise history to fit a silly narrative now.

I don't even need to post the Bellerin and Holding comments from last year. We all know.

As for goals conceded, we already had that discussion - When our back 5 has played together they've been excellent and conceded less than a goal a game.

I have a simple response - you have brought in Bellerin and Holding and whoever else into the discussion, I am talking about spending £50m on a CB we didn't need, I didn't say we didn't need Tomiyasu. We had Mavrapanos, we had Saliba, last season with Luiz we will have conceded fewer goals than this season with the £50m CB.

So NO, we didn't need to spend £350m on a CB !

Was wondering how long it would take to bring a kid with zero PL experience and another with hardly any to replace the outgoing CB.
Just ludicrous.
You’ve found yourself arguing over one of our best players this season and transfer fees whilst claiming without any back up that we’d be better off in some hypothetical situation where we bought some unknown player.
If White had not been so good this year I could kind of understand it, but as it stands it’s pathetic.
Individual transfer fees when rebuilding a squad are largely irrelevant. We brought in Ramsdale White Tomiyasu and Odegaard for £150m plus back ups with future potential in Lakonga and Tavares.
That’s good business.
For some reason you can’t bring yourself you admit the obvious. Arteta and Edu did a good job in the summer with a key stage of our squad development.
That’s all that matters.
MF I can kind of understand the view we needed someone, but then we got Odegaard and as it turned out Xhaka has been pretty good this year.

Ironically, it was not that long ago that you posted that White had been great and looked to be worth the £50m... 3 losses, which were hardly because of White and all of a sudden you're in the 'I hate Arteta so much I am going to bash everything about him' mode again.

You said:

Where you buy him from is irrelevant, its about his ability at that time. BW doesn't need to be commanding, he needs to be good and he has been very good, good enough to warrant the £50m price tag. He rarely makes mistakes, hardly ever gets beaten and is a very good passer of the ball. You Can only compare him to his peers, VVD went for £80m, Maguire went for £80m, John Stones went for £50m. Looking at Ben White right now, he is better than John Stones was because Stones had a mistake in him. Maguire went for that money because he was commanding, would you prefer him in your back line right now ? Hell no. Not even VVD was/is commanding.

Name a better English CB in the league right now than Ben white.

Your view is not objective HH. It's just based on the emotion of how we are doing in the moment.
Is that how it is now? Macro level issues and views chopping and changing based on a couple of results?

Lets just cut the crap and be honest. Ben White is being used as a tool to bash Arteta, like a host of other players depending on whether he signed them or sold them. Pretty childish.

Rass - Jay ........ you can write as much as you want, as long as you miss the point it all amounts to nothing.

My position is simple. I thought the purchase of Ben White was bad because a) we didn't need to spend that much on any CB and b) BW was not worth half that amount. As the season progressed I began to see some talent, I have been quite vocal recently in backing Ben white and giving my support of the player.

It doesn't change my original position which is - we didn't need to spend £50m on a CB. Just because BW has been good that doesn't mean we needed to buy him ! I used the hypothetical scenario of PSG buying Salah as an example, Salah would be good for PSG but he wouldn't be needed.

I could go offroading in a Land Rover and see how much better it is than some other car, but if that car does what I need it to do I don't need to buy the Land Rover just because it is the best or better than what I have - especially not when I have other things that are more of an issue !

[Santi]

Maybe we should’ve spent even more on the defence and gotten a new left back. With a better left back we could’ve not only conceded less but also increased our chance creation down the left side.

Everyone knew tierney was made of glass and that was the real priority.

Are you Arteta's twin or something ???

Here is a novel idea ... how about we spend some money on offensive players to improve our offensive capability instead of relying on the defence to do it

But my left backs on FM always get a minimum of 15 assists, so a proper left back could've got us 5 goals, 20 assists and a whole bunch of chances created. Lacazette would probably be a 30 goal a season striker with a better left back

[jayramfootball]

^ but then we could just go full circle.
If the plan is to revamp the entire squad - lets forget about agreeing/disagreeing on whether we needed to for now - the order in which you do it depends on who is available , who will come and how much budget you have for each window to optimise the period post that window. If the scouts had laid out a whole set of options across the squad but the midfielders we wanted were not available or not wanting to come here, same as strikers/forwards, then you start your build on what you can do in that window.
I don't think there was some grand strategy to say - hey, defence first... I just think we did the business we could in the positions we identified that we needed in that window, whilst knowing the entire rebuild was not going to happen over the one window.

That is precisely why I mentioned that it is futile to go into coulda should would scenarios without knowing what the club actually tried to do and could do.

The bottom line is we got a CB, RB, back up LB, 2 midfielders (1 of which was a back up) and a new GK.
Every single signing filled a position we needed to fill - except MAYBE the GK. But with that it turned out well for us anyway.

Were ALL the positions we needed to fill sorted out in 1 window - nope. That was never going to happen.

All that said - if you now think as you stated that BW has been 'very very good', is the 'best English CB in the country' and is 'worth £50m' now - then I see no real value is questioning the overall club strategy without at least some view of what they actually tried to do in the window

[Santi]

Jay you are wrong brother, an unnamed left back - whom I don't need to provide as I'm not a scout, could've changed our entire fortunes and I just know it. I am staunch follower of Arsene Wenger and the fabled book of Excessive Excuses as my holy guiding principle in life, so I believe it with all my heart.

We simply didn't need a centre back but this unnamed left back would've changed our entire season. As an added bonus Ozim and friends would've been able to ejaculate over William Saliba every time he made a tackle.

You've got it all wrong brother, our season hinged on 1 specific signing.

[jayramfootball]

Jay you are wrong brother, an unnamed left back - whom I don't need to provide as I'm not a scout, could've changed our entire fortunes and I just know it. I am staunch follower of Arsene Wenger and the fabled book of Excessive Excuses as my holy guiding principle in life, so I believe it with all my heart.

We simply didn't need a centre back but this unnamed left back would've changed our entire season. As an added bonus Ozim and friends would've been able to ejaculate over William Saliba every time he made a tackle.

You've got it all wrong brother, our season hinged on 1 specific signing.

LOL, TBH I just find the entire thing totally bizarre.
We bought a player who has been very good for us (even by the standards of some oof the people still infatuated with the transfer fee), is young and will probably be a key player for the next 5 years, who in all likelihood is going to be valued at more than we paid for him in the coming years (if not next year) and the moaning STILL continues. What is even more strange is that the detailed forensic examination of every pound spent seems to be limited to certain players only. Go figure.

[Salibatelli]

Bizarre? Almost everyone didn’t think we needed to spend big on a CB, everyone was very surprised by the amount we spent on one,

We had a Mavropanos and Saliba both of which had excelled on loan, people were excited about Saliba, this untested kid thing is rubbish, Fofana same age, same team etc made the transition, so yes most would have been happy with Mavropanos and Saliba, in fact they preferred them to Holding so he wouldn’t even come into the conversation. We also had Mari who was supposed to be decent at the time.

We absolutely needed a forward because Laca and Nketiah were out of contract the following season, many wanted them sold, people weren’t just happy with Auba only as his previous season had also been hit and miss (although they still thought he was quality).

As HH rightly pointed, loads spend on the defence but we’ll end up conceding more so this doesn’t point to a huge difference compared to the spend.

Whilst some signings have been very good, we signed players in the wrong areas, that was clear and we’re paying for it now, White and co aren’t making an ounce of difference right now, a decent striker would have especially after getting rid of our only striker capable of scoring goals.

[thebigbangtheo]

With hand on heart and leaving any bias or external influences at the door in making an honest assessment of Benjamin White and William Saliba as to who I'd deem as the better player, or believe should form the central defensive pairing with Gabriel Magalhaes next season as the keystone to our defence, I'm inclined to think... Bonjour monsieur Saliba.

It's pointless highlighting any perceived pro's and con's to the pair as all will be revealed soon enough, and why some may prefer one over the other is fundamentally the same as to why some acclaim Bergkamp as player numero uno and to others it's Henry hands down.

In having endured an aging David Luiz who's star was diminishing at a pace, old war dog Sokratis who I'm certain was in the film '300', and Skodran Mustafi for whom nothing further need be said beyond his name, doubts do then cross my mind as to the provenance of some gunners in there even being a squabble over having Magalhaes, Saliba and White to choose from for our first team defensive partnership following on from the aforementioned (apparently, the five studio props memory erasers from M.I.B were purchased by arsenal fans 3 years ago).

Whilst it's great that White and Tomiyasu have the ability to swap between their positions, I am also of the opinion that White could do a similar job as to what Elneny has done in the absence of Partey and anchor the base of the midfield.

[Arsenal Tone]

Adams, Bould and Keown

[Reiss]

Martinez going for deal worth up to 57m. Suddenly the 50m for White doesn't look that bad eh?

[Salibatelli]

Still looks way overpriced, 25 million defender that we bought for 50 million.

[ag6789]

Most first choice PL purchases are fairly expensive. Maguire, Stones comes to mind. First choice players from other leagues are also very expensive like VVD, Laporte, speaking about
defenders only , and not necessarily they pan out.
As for GKs they're pretty expensive too like Alison, Kepa on and on and again they do not necessarily work out, not to talk about midfielders and forwards.
Money doesn't solve problems for most teams. It is the organization, descipline and team work that does it.
But again, you need to buy the most shiny toy because your neighbour has done it!

[Salibatelli]

Both Stones and Maguire had played in the PL for several seasons, Maguire had been outstanding for England and Leicester.

White had one season for Brighton, he wasn’t the player that really stood out to most fans either, 50 million was a lot.

Realistically a 25-30 million fee would be about right based on his experience and ability.

Gabriel is a better defender and cost half what White did. Varane had a poor season, mainly because of poor managers but when bought was a superior player and cost less, Koulibaly and elite defender cost less, although he is older.

[Losmeister]

"also of the opinion that White could do a similar job as to what Elneny has done in the absence of Partey and anchor the base of the midfield."

this is my thought since last year

[UFGN]

"also of the opinion that White could do a similar job as to what Elneny has done in the absence of Partey and anchor the base of the midfield."

this is my thought since last year

But he's one of our principal centre backs. We need him to play at centre back

Granted he is quite offensively minded for a CB but we need him at CB. Especially if Gabriel goes