Benjamin White (4)

[jayramfootball]

Yeah but we didn't need to spend £50m on a CB, it doesn't matter how much Brighton wanted, we didn't need to spend that money. That money would've been better spent elsewhere.

Where would it have been better spent?
Which player and which position.

The obvious position was a CF to allow Arteta's game to take benefit of it, not dick around trying to get Auba or Laca to play a role they so obviously can't play.

CM needed to be strengthened, Partey was semi injured last season and Xhaka is shit. We cheaped out and bought Lokonga who clearly isn't ready. Arteta f***ked off Torrieira and Guendouzi, if he was going to do that he should've brought in a good quality CM to support Partey.

I don't think CF was the obvious position at all.
In general the world and his wife thought Auba was more than good enough,
He'd just signed a huge contract the year before.
Very few people thought he would repeat the previous season's poor form.

So we bring in a replacement to Xhaka then - so now we have to be sure he's going to be better and even if he is we have Holding in defence with Gabriel. Congratulations, you just took away probably the best defensive partnership we've had in years in order to replace Xhaka, who's played well this year.

Which player was out there that we should have bought to replace Xhaka?
Which CF should we have bought to replace Auba at the time - and moreover who was saying we needed to replace him?

Get to the specifics - not just fanciful thinking on positions based on hindsight.

I am not a football scout, I don't need to give you specifics, I don't have a database of footballers to refer to. All I need to do is talk common sense. there are thousands of professional footballers out there, Arsenal has an extensive scouting network, they should be able to work it out.

If you are going to play football that requires a CF to hold up the ball (Laca can do that - Auba can't) and get on the end of crosses (Laca can't do that) you need a CF capable of doing both. It is clear that it was the way Arteta wanted to play because the team slung in 1 million crosses last season and we didn't do shit with them. It was no surprise to any of us that we struggled again this season to convert crosses because we had nobody there to get on the end of them.

Our midfield was weak, Xhaka is shit like we all know, Elneny is a basic CM capable of doing a reasonable job as a holding midfielder. Knowing that Partey suffered from multiple injuries last season it was not a given that the same would not happen this season, Arteta should have had a contingency plan for Partey's absence. That plan was to play a young-ling with zero Premier League experience next to one of the slowest players in the entire 5 football leagues - Xhaka. And people wonder why we are where we are right now ?!!! You can't possibly tell me Lokonga was the best we could do in that position.

Honestly that is what I thought.

You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

Very easy. We'd have been better off signing Haaland up front and in CM maybe Kimmich from Bayern.

[UFGN]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

[jayramfootball]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

Lol, questioning coulda shoulda woulda statements in hindsight is not excessive at all.

We've got a brilliant partnership in defence - that is what really matters. Whether we could have done the same or better by getting a Xhaka replacement instead? Maybe, maybe not? It's pretty pointless speculation.

[theHotHead]

Honestly that is what I thought.

You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

Very easy. We'd have been better off signing Haaland up front and in CM maybe Kimmich from Bayern.

Jay stop chatting shit.

I don't need to provide a list of anything or alternatives, all I need to do is talk common sense and facts. I hardly get time to watch Arsenal let alone other football teams, I have a life to lead.

FACT - Arteta f***ked up our attack and has insisted on a system that requires a dominant CF and we don't have one.
FACT - Arteta left our midfield woefully exposed with poor planning and poor decision making
FACT - FIFA says there are 129,000 registered professional footballers globally, that number may include women.

Lets for the sake of generosity assume half of those players are women (I didn't see if that number was just men), thats 64,500 professional male footballers, you don't have to be a genius to work out there would be a number of "traditional Centre Forwards" within that number. I don't have to list them to make my point. The fact that you are harping on about it just shows the desperation of your argument.

There was not a single Arsenal fan on this forum who would've put Lokonga and Tavares on their list of player purchases, not because they don't rate them, but because we know f**k all about them, none of us had even heard of either player. Proves my point that I may not know the names of players but that does not mean that they don't exist !

[theHotHead]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

Yup, its lame as f**k and Jay knows it !

[Nuggets]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

Yup, its lame as f**k and Jay knows it !

[jayramfootball]

Honestly that is what I thought.

You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

Very easy. We'd have been better off signing Haaland up front and in CM maybe Kimmich from Bayern.

Jay stop chatting shit.

I don't need to provide a list of anything or alternatives, all I need to do is talk common sense and facts. I hardly get time to watch Arsenal let alone other football teams, I have a life to lead.

FACT - Arteta f***ked up our attack and has insisted on a system that requires a dominant CF and we don't have one.
FACT - Arteta left our midfield woefully exposed with poor planning and poor decision making
FACT - FIFA says there are 129,000 registered professional footballers globally, that number may include women.

Lets for the sake of generosity assume half of those players are women (I didn't see if that number was just men), thats 64,500 professional male footballers, you don't have to be a genius to work out there would be a number of "traditional Centre Forwards" within that number. I don't have to list them to make my point. The fact that you are harping on about it just shows the desperation of your argument.

There was not a single Arsenal fan on this forum who would've put Lokonga and Tavares on their list of player purchases, not because they don't rate them, but because we know f**k all about them, none of us had even heard of either player. Proves my point that I may not know the names of players but that does not mean that they don't exist !

How about this fact, which should be all that is required…
In White, we signed a player who’s had an excellent season for us and formed a great partnership with Gabriel.
Mustafi cost nearly £40m and wasn’t subjected to the kind of shitposts White received when we signed him 6 yrs ago. Elements of our fan base are becoming more destructive… although I think it’s pretty selective considering the same people still think Pepe is the solution to getting top 4 having bombed after 100 games plus and costing £72m… wonder what the common thread is …

The ‘yeah but’ nonsense is not required.
I see little point in conjuring up imaginary players that could have possibly been available that we don’t know about who could have been a better signing.

[theHotHead]

White wasn't required, he has turned into an excellent CB, but he wasn't required Jay, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

We didn't need him, we spent shitloads on him but other areas had greater concern for us.

Like PSG buying Salah, they don't need him but no doubt he would be magnificent for them.

We needed CM cover, we needed a dominant CF. We conceded 51 goals in Wenger's last season compared to our peers who were in the 20s and 30s. Emery conceded 51 goals in his only full season, compared to 20s and 30s of our peers. In the abomination season that Arteta joined we conceded 48 goals but our peers conceded in the 30s, 40s and 50s !!! In Arteta's first full season we conceded 39 goals, our peers conceded in the 30s and 40s, in fact, the team with the best defence were Man City and they conceded 32 goals.

We managed this without Ramsdale, without Tomiyasu and without White, so there is no way you can tell me a £50m CB was a priority for us this season Jay !! Your argument is torn to more shreds when you see that we have conceded 37 goals already this season and we have 7 games to go !! We spent all that money and are getting a worse return !

[Power n Glory]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

Yep. That was always an annoying game. You'd be asked to name a player we should have signed and whoever you could suggest would often be shot down. They were either too expensive and out of reach or not good enough for us or the Prem. The 'armchair manager' and 'this isn't FIFA' insults would fly. Same with managers whenever asked to name a Wenger replacement.

[jayramfootball]

White wasn't required, he has turned into an excellent CB, but he wasn't required Jay, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

We didn't need him, we spent shitloads on him but other areas had greater concern for us.

Like PSG buying Salah, they don't need him but no doubt he would be magnificent for them.

We needed CM cover, we needed a dominant CF. We conceded 51 goals in Wenger's last season compared to our peers who were in the 20s and 30s. Emery conceded 51 goals in his only full season, compared to 20s and 30s of our peers. In the abomination season that Arteta joined we conceded 48 goals but our peers conceded in the 30s, 40s and 50s !!! In Arteta's first full season we conceded 39 goals, our peers conceded in the 30s and 40s, in fact, the team with the best defence were Man City and they conceded 32 goals.

We managed this without Ramsdale, without Tomiyasu and without White, so there is no way you can tell me a £50m CB was a priority for us this season Jay !! Your argument is torn to more shreds when you see that we have conceded 37 goals already this season and we have 7 games to go !! We spent all that money and are getting a worse return !

CB was absolutely required and RB.
We also needed a Tierney back up.
Holding is and never was good enough to be a starter and Bellerin was shit.
We also lost David Luiz.
You are saying you would have gone into this season with Holding and Bellerin? Chambers as a back up?
All I can say is thank god you are not the manager.

We already discussed the 'need' for a CF - you had no answer...unless you want to claim that there was a big clamour to replace Aubameyang?
We were however discussing the need to replace Bellerin - so not sure why we have to try and revise history to fit a silly narrative now.

I don't even need to post the Bellerin and Holding comments from last year. We all know.

As for goals conceded, we already had that discussion - When our back 5 has played together they've been excellent and conceded less than a goal a game.

[jayramfootball]

. [
You are making claims without any knowledge of who was available , who wanted to come, what plan we had specifically for the positions we needed.
It's easy to say ' we'd have been better off if we did x'.

This quote reminds me of the worst deluded excesses of Wenger extremists back in the day

Yep. That was always an annoying game. You'd be asked to name a player we should have signed and whoever you could suggest would often be shot down. They were either too expensive and out of reach or not good enough for us or the Prem. The 'armchair manager' and 'this isn't FIFA' insults would fly. Same with managers whenever asked to name a Wenger replacement.

It's annoying because it is true.

[theHotHead]

White wasn't required, he has turned into an excellent CB, but he wasn't required Jay, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

We didn't need him, we spent shitloads on him but other areas had greater concern for us.

Like PSG buying Salah, they don't need him but no doubt he would be magnificent for them.

We needed CM cover, we needed a dominant CF. We conceded 51 goals in Wenger's last season compared to our peers who were in the 20s and 30s. Emery conceded 51 goals in his only full season, compared to 20s and 30s of our peers. In the abomination season that Arteta joined we conceded 48 goals but our peers conceded in the 30s, 40s and 50s !!! In Arteta's first full season we conceded 39 goals, our peers conceded in the 30s and 40s, in fact, the team with the best defence were Man City and they conceded 32 goals.

We managed this without Ramsdale, without Tomiyasu and without White, so there is no way you can tell me a £50m CB was a priority for us this season Jay !! Your argument is torn to more shreds when you see that we have conceded 37 goals already this season and we have 7 games to go !! We spent all that money and are getting a worse return !

CB was absolutely required and RB.
We also needed a Tierney back up.
Holding is and never was good enough to be a starter and Bellerin was shit.
We also lost David Luiz.
You are saying you would have gone into this season with Holding and Bellerin? Chambers as a back up?
All I can say is thank god you are not the manager.

We already discussed the 'need' for a CF - you had no answer...unless you want to claim that there was a big clamour to replace Aubameyang?
We were however discussing the need to replace Bellerin - so not sure why we have to try and revise history to fit a silly narrative now.

I don't even need to post the Bellerin and Holding comments from last year. We all know.

As for goals conceded, we already had that discussion - When our back 5 has played together they've been excellent and conceded less than a goal a game.

I have a simple response - you have brought in Bellerin and Holding and whoever else into the discussion, I am talking about spending £50m on a CB we didn't need, I didn't say we didn't need Tomiyasu. We had Mavrapanos, we had Saliba, last season with Luiz we will have conceded fewer goals than this season with the £50m CB.

So NO, we didn't need to spend £350m on a CB !

[Santi]

Maybe we should’ve spent even more on the defence and gotten a new left back. With a better left back we could’ve not only conceded less but also increased our chance creation down the left side.

Everyone knew tierney was made of glass and that was the real priority.

[theHotHead]

Maybe we should’ve spent even more on the defence and gotten a new left back. With a better left back we could’ve not only conceded less but also increased our chance creation down the left side.

Everyone knew tierney was made of glass and that was the real priority.

Are you Arteta's twin or something ???

Here is a novel idea ... how about we spend some money on offensive players to improve our offensive capability instead of relying on the defence to do it

[jayramfootball]

White wasn't required, he has turned into an excellent CB, but he wasn't required Jay, the 2 are mutually exclusive.

We didn't need him, we spent shitloads on him but other areas had greater concern for us.

Like PSG buying Salah, they don't need him but no doubt he would be magnificent for them.

We needed CM cover, we needed a dominant CF. We conceded 51 goals in Wenger's last season compared to our peers who were in the 20s and 30s. Emery conceded 51 goals in his only full season, compared to 20s and 30s of our peers. In the abomination season that Arteta joined we conceded 48 goals but our peers conceded in the 30s, 40s and 50s !!! In Arteta's first full season we conceded 39 goals, our peers conceded in the 30s and 40s, in fact, the team with the best defence were Man City and they conceded 32 goals.

We managed this without Ramsdale, without Tomiyasu and without White, so there is no way you can tell me a £50m CB was a priority for us this season Jay !! Your argument is torn to more shreds when you see that we have conceded 37 goals already this season and we have 7 games to go !! We spent all that money and are getting a worse return !

CB was absolutely required and RB.
We also needed a Tierney back up.
Holding is and never was good enough to be a starter and Bellerin was shit.
We also lost David Luiz.
You are saying you would have gone into this season with Holding and Bellerin? Chambers as a back up?
All I can say is thank god you are not the manager.

We already discussed the 'need' for a CF - you had no answer...unless you want to claim that there was a big clamour to replace Aubameyang?
We were however discussing the need to replace Bellerin - so not sure why we have to try and revise history to fit a silly narrative now.

I don't even need to post the Bellerin and Holding comments from last year. We all know.

As for goals conceded, we already had that discussion - When our back 5 has played together they've been excellent and conceded less than a goal a game.

I have a simple response - you have brought in Bellerin and Holding and whoever else into the discussion, I am talking about spending £50m on a CB we didn't need, I didn't say we didn't need Tomiyasu. We had Mavrapanos, we had Saliba, last season with Luiz we will have conceded fewer goals than this season with the £50m CB.

So NO, we didn't need to spend £350m on a CB !

Was wondering how long it would take to bring a kid with zero PL experience and another with hardly any to replace the outgoing CB.
Just ludicrous.
You’ve found yourself arguing over one of our best players this season and transfer fees whilst claiming without any back up that we’d be better off in some hypothetical situation where we bought some unknown player.
If White had not been so good this year I could kind of understand it, but as it stands it’s pathetic.
Individual transfer fees when rebuilding a squad are largely irrelevant. We brought in Ramsdale White Tomiyasu and Odegaard for £150m plus back ups with future potential in Lakonga and Tavares.
That’s good business.
For some reason you can’t bring yourself you admit the obvious. Arteta and Edu did a good job in the summer with a key stage of our squad development.
That’s all that matters.
MF I can kind of understand the view we needed someone, but then we got Odegaard and as it turned out Xhaka has been pretty good this year.

Ironically, it was not that long ago that you posted that White had been great and looked to be worth the £50m... 3 losses, which were hardly because of White and all of a sudden you're in the 'I hate Arteta so much I am going to bash everything about him' mode again.

You said:

Where you buy him from is irrelevant, its about his ability at that time. BW doesn't need to be commanding, he needs to be good and he has been very good, good enough to warrant the £50m price tag. He rarely makes mistakes, hardly ever gets beaten and is a very good passer of the ball. You Can only compare him to his peers, VVD went for £80m, Maguire went for £80m, John Stones went for £50m. Looking at Ben White right now, he is better than John Stones was because Stones had a mistake in him. Maguire went for that money because he was commanding, would you prefer him in your back line right now ? Hell no. Not even VVD was/is commanding.

Name a better English CB in the league right now than Ben white.

Your view is not objective HH. It's just based on the emotion of how we are doing in the moment.
Is that how it is now? Macro level issues and views chopping and changing based on a couple of results?

Lets just cut the crap and be honest. Ben White is being used as a tool to bash Arteta, like a host of other players depending on whether he signed them or sold them. Pretty childish.