Depends what you mean by 'great.' I've had this conversation with friends so many times over the last 4 or 5 years. I am a glass half empty person (I do try not to be, honest!) and I've already come to the belief, for example, that I'll never see Arsenal win the Champions League in my lifetime. I don't subscribe to the idea that every truly great club has to have won the European Cup at least once, but there's no getting away from the fact that nearly every team considered great in their own (major) League has won it. Had the competition existed in the 1930s, I'm confident we'd have won at least 2 but that's only an opinion based on little other than that was the one decade we ruled English football.
As for trophy hauls, we are the 3rd most successful team in English football. That will take a while to be overhauled (if it ever is) by whomever is next and I think the fact that we've never, 30s aside, been a 'spree' team but moreover a club who wins trophies in almost every decade will ensure we're always regarded as a great club in historical terms. If we pick up a few of the cups on offer over this decade then it could be argued we're still a successful club, albeit not great.
As said though, it needs an overhaul which is unlikely to happen. Everyone has picked up on any weaknesses in the spine of the team, but we have major issues in the spine of the club. Utd fans bitch and moan about the Glazers and the debt but even with the pandemic, Utd are in no risk of going bust and they have pumped out big transfers repeatedly. Whether they've turned out ok is another issue. Liverpool's owners have the sun shining out their arses right now, Chelsea still have the same bored billionaire who will throw out some small change when he can, Leicester's owners seem to genuinely care and no doubt that bond has been strengthened by the awful tragedy that occurred, while City's owners are more than happy to spend money like water. They might not sanction a £100 million move for one player but they'll happily spend £150 million plus for two pairs of full backs.
We have an owner who never talks (fine, nor do the others really and I'm not that arsed about what he would say anyway) but more importantly has an established history of owning a range of under achieving franchises in world sports. They are long term buys with actual success on the field/court/pitch whatever being 2nd priority at best. We're no more than an item in a list he produces in pissing contests with his acquaintances on some ranch with expensive whisky and fat cigars.
Reading Arseblog,
https://arseblog.com/2020/07/kse-restructure-stadium-debt-analysis-and-opportunity it would appear that the immediate concern is freeing funds for costs rather than improving the team, while somehow loading more debt onto the club. I don't get finance so I may have that arse backwards, Don't think so though.
The other owners all seem to want genuine success or at least rapid improvement in return for their investments. Kroenke just seems to want a receipt with black ink rather than red.
When things looked bad in '96, we had David Dein who basically ran the club and hired Arsene. There's no one there like that who would do that, would grab the club by its collective balls and say this is what we need, this is who we need and actually be right about it. We seem to be more likely to find out what Kia thinks and then play around for a few months pontificating. We're also paying the price for poor decisions; a manager was allowed to continue way beyond his prime (no spine at the top-literally) poor contractual dealings and terrible recruitment over a number of windows. As others have said, it is going to take some time to remedy that.
Bad luck. Churlish, but Liverpool and Utd are the 2 jammiest teams I have ever seen. I don't want to bore everyone with a dissertation but although it's the trophies that count, all of us remember Henchoz being allowed to play volleyball in the 2001 FA Cup Final which was robbed from us and likewise, only Bayern Munich know how they managed to hand Utd the treble. Forgetting that, the bad luck we have suffered is almost supernatural. The injuries for one. More importantly, the timing. We move from Highbury, hell of an opportunity to sell off land...what happens? Worldwide property slump and depression.
We need funds as we are looking like missing out on Europe...what happens? The worst health crisis (thanks China) in living memory and an unprecedented slump in revenue for all concerned. How do you rebuild in that market? (Much more important things though and I am well aware of the awful loss of life and I hope you and yours are ok, just pointing out that now is the one time we don't need to be even more hard-up)
So without funds, a decent infrastructure and with a squad which needs a lot of work, I don't believe we're going to be great anytime soon. Certainly not top 4 for at least a few years and longer than that for a title. It's already 16 years and counting and look at the personnel we could call on at various times in that period. When Europa League football starts to bite Sheff Utd and Wolves, we should be in for the Europa no matter what, but that's not exactly great and we would need to be even greater to win the thing. 'Doldrums' is so right AG, it's how Bob Wilson described the time after 1953 in my first ever Arsenal VHS!
EliteKiller wrote:Why not? We have the finances and the facilities so provided we can get the manager and players there is no reason we can't ... that said there are now at least 6 and possibly more teams who can match us on and off the pitch in the EPL so it will be much harder than the last thirty years ...
The fact that Liverpool went through three decades of mediocrity before getting back to the top is empirical evidence that it can be done - let us all hope we can do it a bit quicker. Right now we have an unbalanced squad that will take three years to put right, that's not only about money but about undoing the horrendous contract mess we are in, we have to replace almost every player now 28 or older - Luiz, Sokratis, Ozil, Auba, Laca, Soares, Leno, Mustafi ... and several who simply aren't good enough or don't want to be her Xhaka, Guendouzi ... that's four major players out a year for three years before we even begin to see the light ... it needs to be done.
I don't think we do have the finances which would prevent us getting the players required, even if Arteta is the right man to lead the club. If he isn't, then who is there who will love the idea of not having a pot to piss in? Aside from the fact we're no longer a 'big job.' Arsenal is now a 'hard job, speeding towards impossible.' As for Liverpool, during their 30 years of 'mediocrity' they won 3 FA Cups, 4 League Cups, 1 Uefa Cup, 1 European Cup and 2 Super Cups. Arsenal between 1954 and 1988 for example, won 1 League, 2 FA Cups , I League Cup and 1 Fairs Cup. Their record and ours don't compare. If you want to move nearer to today, in the last 15 years, we've won 4 FA Cups. Again doesn't compare.
Yes it can be done, but look at timing and luck again. Liverpool got Jurgen Klopp when he was free. Could we have done? Maybe, maybe not. Most importantly is what got Liverpool even better. And he isn't even there anymore. Coutinho. They sold him for bloody Monopoly money and with that, got Alisson and Van Dyke. There is no one in our squad who is going to go for up to £142 million, even if the pandemic hadn't happened.
Wait and see. In a week we could have beaten Liverpool and be looking forward to a Cup final against an increasingly erratic Chelsea and then maybe the clouds will part. Greatness may still be a while off.
(Really sorry if I've bored everyone, so deflated after the result and trying to not think about how euphoric I felt in 2004!)