Page 1 of 23

Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 11:13 am
by Özim
When we were on the lookout for a new manager we had various options available to us, of those 3 ended up in the PL, 2 of them many were adamant they didn't want here, we ended up with Arteta which some people seemed happy enough about, with some making comparisons with the likes of Klopp, Guardiola etc

I wanted to follow their performance so far to see how it compares to Arteta in the league (I'm not including the cup matches as Spurs also have CL football which the other two clubs don't have)

Arteta
Starting position in league: 11th
Current position: 10th
Games 7, 3 at home, 4 away
1 win, 5 draws, 1 defeat
8 points from 21
Points percentage return 38.1%

Ancelotti
Starting position in league: 15th
Current position: 9th
Games 7, 3 at home, 4 away
4 wins, 2 draws, 1 defeat
14 points from 21
Points percentage return 66.67%

Mourinho
Starting position in league: 14th
Current position: 5th
Games 7, 7 at home, 6 away
7 wins, 2 draws, 4 defeats
23 points
Points percentage return 58.97%

Ancelotti and Arteta however have had an identical number of games and Ancelotti is outperforming Arteta significantly. Arteta has lost less than Mourinho (but not than Ancelotti), however he's also won far less and seems to be struggling to get results where the others are able to win games. In addition Mourinho has managed to move spurs up 9 places in the league, Ancelotti has managed to move Everton 6 places higher in the league, but Arteta has just managed to move us up 1 position

It's early days but at this stage what's clear is that Artetas points return is much lower than the other two, Mourinho has played more so his points total will naturally be a bit lower as it's harder to maintain over a longer run.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:38 pm
by Power n Glory
I think Spurs were 14th when Mourinho took over. I still would have preferred Ancelotti but it's too late now.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:44 pm
by Ach
Yeah Spurs were 14th

We still had emery in charge when Jose went to Spurs but had we acted quicker by a week, Jose is ours and we are challenging for top 4 as we speak instead of doing whatever it is we are doing right now. He won't admit obviously but he'd love to come here.

But the man that was ready and willing to come and was available, we never went for and he has changed Everton's season around. Arguably the biggest blunder our board has ever made.

Arteta we all knew was never the right man but he was cheap. Cheap>right person.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:45 pm
by Özim
Power n Glory wrote:I think Spurs were 14th when Mourinho took over. I still would have preferred Ancelotti but it's too late now.


Yeah you're right, Man U and Wolves won after they'd played, now edited.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 12:51 pm
by Özim
Ach wrote:Yeah Spurs were 14th

We still had emery in charge when Jose went to Spurs but had we acted quicker by a week, Jose is ours and we are challenging for top 4 as we speak instead of doing whatever it is we are doing right now. He won't admit obviously but he'd love to come here.

But the man that was ready and willing to come and was available, we never went for and he has changed Everton's season around. Arguably the biggest blunder our board has ever made.

Arteta we all knew was never the right man but he was cheap. Cheap>right person.


Yes I agree, though many in our fanbase were adamant Mourinho wasn't an option, which I can understand more (though don't agree with personally) than not wanting Ancelotti which some again were adamant Arteta was a superior option to based on some theory that he was a dinosaur and past it.


Thing is he's been doing really well at Everton (a team who were struggling more than us) and noone needs to make any excuses for him because he's getting the best out of what he has. Meanwhile at Arsenal we're hearing every excuse under the sun as to why it's not Artetas' fault, he's a long term appointment, the players aren't good enough, the grass is too long.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 5:09 pm
by Santi
Spurs squad > Arsenal squad
What about who the respective teams played against?
What about the confidence and performance of each team before the new manager took over?

Painted a nice little picture that you wanted to paint there though, well done.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:33 pm
by Özim
Maybe but I also included Everton who were also well below us and Ancelotti turned it around, sugarcoat it any way you like but Arteta has been poor,

Both those other teams replaced their managers because they were out of form and struggling (otherwise why would they replace their managers), both have seen noticeable upturns, we get a new manager results barely change.

Everton have probably got a worse squad than us, but have move above us and Ancelotti the guy I think we should have chosen has picked up 14 points to Arteta's 8.

The comparison is fair, particularly with Everton, it just shows that despite some people misgivings Ancelotti would have been a good choice. What is really noticeable is despite people claiming Arteta has made a big difference, in real terms he hasn't, the improvement has been negligible at best and Emery was having a terrible time of it, the other two clubs have moved up in the table considerably, we haven't.

I'm not happy with Artetas' performance, 8 points from 21 is very poor, he's won 1 game and it's been really hard going, the football has also been average overall.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:41 pm
by Marsbar100
I think arteta is just tinkering atm, there is no risk to him tinkering as we are out of the top 4 race.

In the important fa cup ties we won.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 8:42 pm
by King of Highbury XIV
Mourinho is a serial winner and would never come coach the losers on our team. Especially
not when Ozil has command of the locker room and is backed by irrational fans who like him for his off field activities rather than his on field performance. Not to mention, if he pissed Emery off with his lack of intensity then Mourinho would be even more pissed at him.

Ancelotti, on the other hand, should’ve been the manager we hired. We have a few experienced players who he’d probably be able to sort out. I don’t know if we approached him or not, but Everton seem to be better for him.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:57 pm
by starmandb
Özim wrote:Maybe but I also included Everton who were also well below us and Ancelotti turned it around, sugarcoat it any way you like but Arteta has been poor,

Both those other teams replaced their managers because they were out of form and struggling (otherwise why would they replace their managers), both have seen noticeable upturns, we get a new manager results barely change.

Everton have probably got a worse squad than us, but have move above us and Ancelotti the guy I think we should have chosen has picked up 14 points to Arteta's 8.

The comparison is fair, particularly with Everton, it just shows that despite some people misgivings Ancelotti would have been a good choice. What is really noticeable is despite people claiming Arteta has made a big difference, in real terms he hasn't, the improvement has been negligible at best and Emery was having a terrible time of it, the other two clubs have moved up in the table considerably, we haven't.

I'm not happy with Artetas' performance, 8 points from 21 is very poor, he's won 1 game and it's been really hard going, the football has also been average overall.

Alex Ferguson first 7 games at man utd
Oxford a lost 2-0
Norwich a 0-0
QPR h won 1-0
Spurs h 3-3
Villa a 3-3
Leicester h won 2-0
Man utd had 31 points after 25 games that season
Ferguson had taken 19 points from the 12 of those games he had been in charge. Calls for sack in current climate would happen. Shame they didn't.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 9:58 pm
by DiamondGooner
Marsbar100 wrote:I think arteta is just tinkering atm, there is no risk to him tinkering as we are out of the top 4 race.

In the important fa cup ties we won.


True but like Emery he will get judged harder after summer so he better get things in order as quick as possible.

The players have abandoned all the good stuff Arteta bought when he first came.

High press, compact play, attack together, defend together, fight till the whistle ........... where the hell has all that gone in the last 2-3 games?

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:05 pm
by Özim
starmandb wrote:Alex Ferguson first 7 games at man utd
Oxford a lost 2-0
Norwich a 0-0
QPR h won 1-0
Spurs h 3-3
Villa a 3-3
Leicester h won 2-0
Man utd had 31 points after 25 games that season
Ferguson had taken 19 points from the 12 of those games he had been in charge. Calls for sack in current climate would happen. Shame they didn't.


Oh here we go.....

A ridiculous comparison because Ferguson had managed a team and been very successful before taking over he was not a total rookie. This is another Klopp did this and Guardiola did this.

This guy is nowhere near their class and I'm pretty confident he never will be, typically like all things Arsenal he's massively overhyped, I can't listen to these Klopp, Guardiola and now Ferguson comparisons because to be honest they're a load of nonsense.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:13 pm
by starmandb
Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:Alex Ferguson first 7 games at man utd
Oxford a lost 2-0
Norwich a 0-0
QPR h won 1-0
Spurs h 3-3
Villa a 3-3
Leicester h won 2-0
Man utd had 31 points after 25 games that season
Ferguson had taken 19 points from the 12 of those games he had been in charge. Calls for sack in current climate would happen. Shame they didn't.


Oh here we go.....

A ridiculous comparison because Ferguson had managed a team and been very successful before taking over he was not a total rookie. This is another Klopp did this and Guardiola did this.

This guy is nowhere near their class and I'm pretty confident he never will be, typically like all things Arsenal he's massively overhyped, I can't listen to these Klopp, Guardiola and now Ferguson comparisons because to be honest they're a load of nonsense.

Ok fine don't listen
Just throwing it in for consideration
If it's not worthy of doing so I can only apologise
No overhype on my part however
Just support

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 6:19 am
by Angelito
We seem to have forgotten that Spurs were UCL Finalists and have consistently finished in the top-4 under Poch?

And, Ancelotti has failed in his last two jobs.

Next please.

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

PostPosted: Tue Feb 04, 2020 8:04 am
by PairyGrows
The fact Mourinho is outperfoming Arteta comes as no surprise: Spurs have a far better squad than we have, and they're way ahead of us on almost all fronts. However, what worries me is that Ancelotti is performing significantly better than Arteta with an inferior squad. That shows how deep our decline really is.

We're slipping further and further away from the top. The top six are all well ahead of us, and even Leicester have passed us by. Now Wolves, Sheffield United and Everton are all ahead of us, and it looks like we're going to struggle to make top six in the foreseeable future, let alone top four.

Frankly, we're getting what we deserve.