Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

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Who would you prefer?

Arteta
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Ancelotti
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Total votes : 29

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:52 pm

Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Nuggets » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:55 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.


On that I agree, BUT the board should have still gone for experience knowing the shit state y the club was in.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Wed Feb 05, 2020 2:56 pm

Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Wait, so you think the few games Arteta has had is giving him time ???? :rofll:

You have to be on the wind up !
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:04 pm

Angelito wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Özim wrote:
Angelito wrote:We seem to have forgotten that Spurs were UCL Finalists and have consistently finished in the top-4 under Poch?

And, Ancelotti has failed in his last two jobs.

Next please.


We haven't forgotten, the point was to show the impact of the new manager on the team, Mourinhos' impact has been significant, as has Ancelottis, Artetas' not so much.

As for Ancelotti failing in his last two jobs, his time at Bayern wasn't a massive success but he won the title, so he continued to win stuff just like he has throughout his career, at Napoli the owner got a bit too much involved so he had no choice but to leave. Arteta has never won a thing, worse still he's never managed before, to give him the job was madness to be honest.


I've never understood that argument about him failing with Bayern or Napoli. Especially coming from Angelito who is in favour of Conte because wouldn't that mean he failed with Chelsea if judging by the same standard? I just wouldn't make that argument for either of them.


How can you compare Conte and Ancelotti?

Conte won the Prem in his first season at Chelsea—notching 93 points and won the FA Cup in his subsequent season. He also created this monster known as modern day Juventus. When Conte won the Prem, he beat Pep, Klopp, Wenger, Mourinho, and Pochettino to the title. Currently, Conte is challenging for the title. We all know where Ancelotti left Napoli.

Ancelotti was ridiculed at Bayern for his training methods and lost the dressing room there. He won the League with the only club that's been winning BuLi since 2013. At Napoli, he didn't succeed either. He took Sarri's great side and didn't achieve much in his first season. In his second season, he took Napoli to one of their worst starts in recent history.

You cannot compare an elite manager like Conte to a past-his-prime Ancelotti.

Talking about Ancelotti's "achievements" at Bayern is the same as praising Unai Emery for his achievements at PSG. The only difference is that Ancelotti was a once-great manager and Unai has never been top quality. Having said that, Ancelotti won one league title with the great Milan side and failed to win the League with Real Madrid.

Doesn't make much sense.


I'm not comparing the two. It's the logic you're using to dismiss a manager that's in question. Conte finished 5th with Chelsea in his last season with Chelsea but I wouldn't look at that to say he's a failure and not good enough for Arsenal which is what you've done with Ancelotti. Shit happens in football and things got toxic for Conte as they did for Ancelotti and due to circumstances outside of football.

I would have been in favour of Conte or Ancelotti because I believe they at least have the ability to get this club back into the Top 4. Conte may have the ability to get us challenging for the title since he is still in his prime, but that's not what's being debated. I'd understand the stance on Carlo if there was an actual expectation for our current manager to take actually win a title this season.

It's worth re-reading my post. Considering nobody on here has any faith in Arteta in achieving Top 4 this season and have strong doubts about us even reaching a Top 4 position unless we invest heavily in the team, does it make sense to be so dismissive of an experienced manager like Ancelotti when the target is Top 4? Missing out on the title with Napoli is minor. They haven't won Serie A in decades. It's not as if he took them over and fell outside of the Top 4 which is what happened to Rafa when he was there. Or what happened with Chelsea under Conte when they fell out of the Top 4. Shit happens.

It's very simple. Out of the two candidates and looking at our circumstances, name the manager most likely to make a serious challenge for the Top 4 this season or next? Ancellotti or Arteta?
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Ach » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:19 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.

We had our problems. No doubt. The other two clubs had their problems as well. Tottenham were 14th. Hadn't won an away game in the league since January. Eriksen pining to leave. A squad that has gone stale. I don't follow them closely enough to know if they had in fighting or whatever but they had problems no doubt.

Weren't Everton in the relegation zone? Can't quite remember. If not in it but quite close to it. That usurps any problem we had.

Look at them now. Now look at us with our new manager.

Arteta is our manager. It's not about us giving him a chance. He's been given a chance whether we wanted him to have it or not. It's up to him to change the minds of the fans who didn't want him. He's failing miserably. I hope he can turn it around but so far no improvement from previous regime is hardly a success
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:57 pm

I wouldn't say he's failing miserably but he's a loss away from it looking like a disaster. It's in the balance and I think if we start winning and playing well after this break the optimistim will come back.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Özim » Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:57 pm

theHotHead wrote:But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.


That's just a biased point of view I'm afraid, there were plenty of problems at Spurs and I'm sure at Everton too, but because they aren't your club your not so aware.

Spurs had real problems in fact with Eriksen wanting to leave, the manager and owner not being on the best terms etc

Everton were well below us, so that's a worse situation that's why both these clubs changed their manager, their was no major problems at Arsenal other than the fact they didn't want to play for Emery anymore, hence the change of attitude now that Arteta has come in, well nothing that can't be fixed with a decent manager anyway, with any club that is having a bad season cracks appear.

You guys love to paint us as the victim, we have it so bad, it's unfair, its the same with refereeing decisions, we're always hard done by, it was the same before when teams use to kick us off the pitch because we were too good. We have an owner that doesn't want to invest, that's the biggest issue, but we have had money to spend (far more than Spurs) and some top quality players, what we need is a manager to initially get them to perform at their best and get results and then bring in new personnel. That's what decent managers do, Arteta is no victim, he's walked into a job at a top club, with zero experience getting paid millions, I'd say he's got it good, he needs to prove himself now, because there's zero evidence he's capable enough for the job since he's never done it before.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby StLGooner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:06 pm

Iwobi says that Wenger and Ancelotti are the same. Haha!


https://sports.yahoo.com/apos-wenger-an ... 00058.html
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby StLGooner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:21 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.



It's almost pointless to even respond to such ignorance. TA is literally saying he had a window to improve, one in which we couldn't even buy players, and we still got in two on loan and they haven't even step foot on a pitch yet for us, but I guess that means the window was a failure and so is Arteta after only 9 games and it's all his fault. No manager in the world can produce money for our club and make the owners buy the players we need. Yet this is a point in their pathetic argument. :dizzy:
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:27 pm

StLGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.



It's almost pointless to even respond to such ignorance. TA is literally saying he had a window to improve, one in which we couldn't even buy players, and we still got in two on loan and they haven't even step foot on a pitch yet for us, but I guess that means the window was a failure and so is Arteta after only 9 games and it's all his fault. No manager in the world can produce money for our club and make the owners buy the players we need. Yet this is a point in their pathetic argument. :dizzy:


What's with the tone?
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby StLGooner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:32 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Ach wrote:
Tony Adams wrote:A thread comparing the results of two manager's we could(/should) have appointed with the one we actually appointed seems fair enough to me :dontknow:

Initially everyone said give Arteta time. He's had seven games and only won one. He's had a transfer window, which I thought some gave as a reason for sacking Emery before Christmas. Now we're told 'wait til the summer' before judging him.

Next it'll be wait til next January for the summer signings to embed. We've seen this conversation before...

This thread shows the impact a new manager with a fresh approach can have and continues to show that Arteta has not made the same impact as the the two other managers.

Yup

It's not like Arteta is being compared with managers that have been with clubs for years and have implemented their own players and style. All 3 are new to their clubs. Only one is flopping.

Arsenal were above both when emery was here.

But you fail to take into account the situation at the 3 clubs. There was nothing toxic at Spurs or Everton, players were not split into cliques, their so-called captains hadn't told the fans to f**k off, those clubs didn't have a minus goal difference. Arteta walked into by far the worst situation of the 3 managers, he has all sorts of things to sort out (non football related) AS WELL AS the shocking form of most of the team and their inability to defend, not to mention confidence that is non-existent. He has a much bigger job to do than the other 2 managers.

But in some of you lots fantasy world, none of the above matters or has an affect, its simply black and white, win or lose, on or off with some of you.



It's almost pointless to even respond to such ignorance. TA is literally saying he had a window to improve, one in which we couldn't even buy players, and we still got in two on loan and they haven't even step foot on a pitch yet for us, but I guess that means the window was a failure and so is Arteta after only 9 games and it's all his fault. No manager in the world can produce money for our club and make the owners buy the players we need. Yet this is a point in their pathetic argument. :dizzy:


What's with the tone?



Just trying to fit in :dontknow:
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:41 pm

@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby StLGooner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 5:46 pm

Power n Glory wrote:@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...



You're right. I'll be sure to refrain from that in the future, but who am I kidding it will happen again, I'm only human. Saying an argument is ignorant and pathetic is hardly the worst that IS said at this place, you've probably said worse if I care to look, but hey lets call me out for it. FFS!! :rolleyes:
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:05 pm

StLGooner wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...



You're right. I'll be sure to refrain from that in the future, but who am I kidding it will happen again, I'm only human. Saying an argument is ignorant and pathetic is hardly the worst that IS said at this place, you've probably said worse if I care to look, but hey lets call me out for it. FFS!! :rolleyes:


I probably have but I try not to go out of my way to antagonize when it's just a difference of opinion and no personal digs have been thrown my way.

It looks like you are trolling and that's the thing we have complained about on this forum.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby StLGooner » Wed Feb 05, 2020 6:17 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:@StL I don't think anyone on this thread has started throwing insults like that. It's a healthy discussion for once. When you start calling people pathetic and ignorant...



You're right. I'll be sure to refrain from that in the future, but who am I kidding it will happen again, I'm only human. Saying an argument is ignorant and pathetic is hardly the worst that IS said at this place, you've probably said worse if I care to look, but hey lets call me out for it. FFS!! :rolleyes:


I probably have but I try not to go out of my way to antagonize when it's just a difference of opinion and no personal digs have been thrown my way.

It looks like you are trolling and that's the thing we have complained about on this forum.



Trolling? Seriously? Come on dude. I'm frustrated with the ignorance and agendas like you are. I called someones ARGUMENT ignorant and pathetic. I didn't even call them a name. Now I agree that doesn't make it right, but it's hardly insulting someone directly. You're clutching at straws here buddy.

I actually wish more posters were like you. You don't seem to have an agenda and your post for the most part are logical and reasonable. But me trolling? Ha! No I'm calling out horrible arguments that make no sense. That's all I ever do on here really. I don't care about agendas or sides, or Emery this or Arteta that, or Ozil or none of that shit. If your argument is stupid, then I'm going to point it out. Yes, I can do it in a less condescending way, but like I said, I'm human, and a bit frustrated by this place at times. Please forgive me.
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