Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

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Discuss anything Arsenal related, players, tactics etc.

Who would you prefer?

Arteta
19
66%
Ancelotti
10
34%
 
Total votes : 29

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:44 am

One step forwards and two back at the moment. Our next 5 games are must wins. West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Norwich and Wolves. Win the 5 and we're in contention for top 4 because there are some tough games for the opponents above us and they should all drop points.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Angelito » Mon Mar 02, 2020 7:47 am

Dejan wrote:
Angelito wrote:
Santi wrote:Well given how most on here used to cream themselves over how much better spurs squad was than ours, is it a surprise? Also if we win our game in hand we’d be level with them so then f***ing what?

Mourinho with his 20 years experience level with a rookie manager, sounds good to me.


+1

On top of this, you can't compare a side that has been a regular in the top-4 under Poch and reached the UCL Final to a side that has been on a "downward spiral" for nearly 4 years now.

So, what narrative are we going for? People can't pick all the cherries they want. Either Arteta deserves time and we need to be patient, or Arteta is so bad that he's made us worse and his predecessor did a good job here only to be undone by Arteta's incompetence. So, which one is it?
Both.

Arteta so far has made us worse. Worse league position, and eliminated against olympiacos. Olympiacos ffs.

He should of never have given the job. But he got it, so we will just have to ride it out.

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I think a little bit of perspective could go a long way.

17/18
- League Cup Final
- UEL SFs
- Community Shield
- 6th in the League; 63 points

18/19
- UEL Final
- 5th in the League; 70 points

19/20 (Under Unai)
- 8th in the League; 18 points from 13 games

19/20 (Under Arteta)
- 10th so far; 19 points from 14 games

Arteta isn't doing any worse than Unai did in his first 13 games here. Last season, Unai had that incredible 22-game unbeatable run, but everything fell apart after that. This season, Unai took us to our worst start in 35-40 years after being commissioned over £200m in transfers in two summers.

We have been sliding downwards for 4 years now. Last two seasons have been disasters by our standards. This season was more or less over when Arteta took over. He hasn't taken over in the best of circumstances, nor did he have a summer or pre-season at Arsenal.

We're being unnecessarily harsh on Arteta. If we're in the same situation by January next year, questions may be raised. But at the moment, it's unwarranted.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Dejan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 8:19 am

I dont think we are unnessacary harsh on Mikel. His subs, starting lineup, attacking game etc has been very questionable. He does not have the results to back up these decisions.

Furthermore, because we are in a downward spiral for the last 4 years, we can not give a manager too much time. The longer we wait, the more we will be left behind.

If he doesnt have his act together lets say december this year, he needs to go. Maybe even earlier.

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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Özim » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:28 am

Arteta has been poor, nobody can argue he’s made us worse other than in defence, we’re further down the league table, got knocked out of the Europa in shocking style and his tactics, lineups and subs have been pretty dismal.

This guy should have never got the job and all those that said it was madness to appoint an untested rookie basked on a couple people claiming he’s be decent were off the mark IMO, another terrible mistake by an incompetent club.

When will we get a decent manager who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t rely on poor players like Xhaka and Mustafi.

His “proud of the players” speech after the Olympiakos game was another shocker, reminds me of Wenger in the bad days which is no surprise as the guy seems to want to model himself on him during the years of failure.

- Boring slow, predictable football - Tick
- Favouritism towards certain players - Tick
- Poor tactics - Tick
- Pointless subs - Tick
- Not utilising players signed at all - Tick
- Agreeing for club to sign crocked players - Tick
Last edited by Özim on Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:03 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Dejan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 11:49 am

Özim wrote:Arteta has been poor, nobody can argue he’s made us worse other than in defence, we’re further down the league table, got knocked out of the Europa in shocking style and his tactics, lineups and subs have been pretty dismal.

This guy should have never got the job and all those that said it was madness to appoint an untested rookie basked on a couple people claiming he’s be decent were off the mark IMO, another terrible mistake by an incompetent club.

When will we get a decent manager who knows what he’s doing and doesn’t rely on poor players like Xhaka and Mustafi.

His “proud of the players” speech after the Olympiakos game was another shocker, reminds me of Wenger in the bad days which is no surprise as the guy seems to want to model himself on him during the years of failure.

- Boring slow, predictable football - Tick
- Favouritism towards certain players - Tick
- Poor tactics - Tick
- Pointless subs - Tick
- Not utilising players signed at all - Tick
- Agreeing for club to sign crocked players - Tick
Good post

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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby DiamondGooner » Mon Mar 02, 2020 12:37 pm

Power n Glory wrote:One step forwards and two back at the moment. Our next 5 games are must wins. West Ham, Brighton, Southampton, Norwich and Wolves. Win the 5 and we're in contention for top 4 because there are some tough games for the opponents above us and they should all drop points.


This is a good acid test for Arteta.

How does he handle picking up these depressed, low motivated players to perform for the rest of the season is key to view him moving forward.

Enough kids gloves, he wanted the task, now he has to live up to it.

Sorting out our sh*t offence is the priority.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Mon Mar 02, 2020 1:57 pm

Özim wrote:
CaptGooner wrote:Dodged a bullet with Mou.. Some of Arteta’s subs have been questionable but Mou has been shocking.


Mourinho has no decent strikers fit, doesn’t exactly have a flood of options.

And where is our flood of decent midfielders ??
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:11 pm

Angelito wrote:
Santi wrote:Well given how most on here used to cream themselves over how much better spurs squad was than ours, is it a surprise? Also if we win our game in hand we’d be level with them so then f***ing what?

Mourinho with his 20 years experience level with a rookie manager, sounds good to me.


+1

On top of this, you can't compare a side that has been a regular in the top-4 under Poch and reached the UCL Final to a side that has been on a "downward spiral" for nearly 4 years now.

So, what narrative are we going for? People can't pick all the cherries they want. Either Arteta deserves time and we need to be patient, or Arteta is so bad that he's made us worse and his predecessor did a good job here only to be undone by Arteta's incompetence. So, which one is it?

Oh they will pick some cherries !!!

2019/20
Arteta, Played 9, pts 14. - 1.55 pts per game.
Emery Played 13, pts 18. - 1.38 pts per game.

Mourinho - Played 16, pts 26. - 1.62 pts per game.
Ancelotti - Played 10, pts 18. - 1.80 pts per game.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Dejan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:19 pm

So don carlo confirmed.

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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby aniym » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:27 pm

Everton are level on points with us. They were in the relegation zone before Carlo arrived.

Forget about Spurs and their CL quality side. WTF do Everton have that they've managed to improve that much?
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Özim » Mon Mar 02, 2020 2:55 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:
CaptGooner wrote:Dodged a bullet with Mou.. Some of Arteta’s subs have been questionable but Mou has been shocking.


Mourinho has no decent strikers fit, doesn’t exactly have a flood of options.

And where is our flood of decent midfielders ??


Torreira is one, but the guy has to play 2nd fiddle to Xhaka.

Luiz could also play there and offer creativity but he's stuck at the back when we have Mari, Holding, Sokratis (and have Mavropanos we sent out on loan who has been decent in Germany. Pepe is creative but needs more time.

Our midfield is far from perfect don't get me wrong, but we could be better if the right players were picked.

Strikers are more important as they score the goals, without them you struggle to win matches.

What it boils down to for me though is that Arteta is doing a lot wrong and not much right, I can't see how this guy can take us forward, the hype machine went into overdrive, we heard stuff about him being the new Guardiola/Klopp, being the reason for Guardiolas success, a guy who knows football inside out etc......to me based on the basic errors and inability to even pick the best team he looks like the rookie he is.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Nuggets » Mon Mar 02, 2020 3:56 pm

Özim wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
Özim wrote:
CaptGooner wrote:Dodged a bullet with Mou.. Some of Arteta’s subs have been questionable but Mou has been shocking.


Mourinho has no decent strikers fit, doesn’t exactly have a flood of options.

And where is our flood of decent midfielders ??


Torreira is one, but the guy has to play 2nd fiddle to Xhaka.

Luiz could also play there and offer creativity but he's stuck at the back when we have Mari, Holding, Sokratis (and have Mavropanos we sent out on loan who has been decent in Germany. Pepe is creative but needs more time.

Our midfield is far from perfect don't get me wrong, but we could be better if the right players were picked.

Strikers are more important as they score the goals, without them you struggle to win matches.

What it boils down to for me though is that Arteta is doing a lot wrong and not much right, I can't see how this guy can take us forward, the hype machine went into overdrive, we heard stuff about him being the new Guardiola/Klopp, being the reason for Guardiolas success, a guy who knows football inside out etc......to me based on the basic errors and inability to even pick the best team he looks like the rookie he is.


Sums it up nicey :clap:
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Santi » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:24 pm

Negative Nancy’s are back in full force because we dropped out of a competition they’re so desperate we don’t even play in next year lmao

Teams lose, even our greatest teams lost to sides we shouldn’t have. It’s been about 10 games for Arteta and he’s stemmed the decline a little, hopefully in the league we keep moving upwards and we can put in a good FA cup run alongside it.

Most of the moaners were happy to give Emery time but Arteta gets 2 months? It’s ridiculous. At least Dejan’s suggestion of December is remotely fair, but then don’t expect much for the rest of this season because he’s come in with one hell of a task for a rookie manager and is going to need time to get it right.

FWIW I think he’ll get 3 years unless we do absolutely awful.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Dejan » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:32 pm

Do you believe that managers that have never managed before should get equal time as proven winner managers?

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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Santi » Mon Mar 02, 2020 5:35 pm

Why not? It’s the clubs decision to go with a rookie not ours. They obviously believe in him and all I care about is how they do at our club, winning a CL with Milan 15 years ago means f**k all to Arsenal.

Otherwise Wenger earned every day that he was allowed to stay at this club beyond the time he was actually good.
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