Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

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Who would you prefer?

Arteta
26
57%
Ancelotti
20
43%
 
Total votes : 46

Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Salibatelli » Sun May 29, 2022 7:00 pm

Hypergooner wrote:
Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Ach wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Has Ancelotti done well with a team that wasn't already winning leagues and CL trophies?

Yes. Real Madrid


Come off it. You can’t claim Real Madrid weren't already in a position to be winning trophies. It's still an expectation in Madrid! I'm talking about a club like Arsenal where top 4 is an achievement


Real had to come back from behind in every single elimination round.

Arsenal were 6 points clear in 4th with 3 games in hand against bottom half teams.

Who had the harder job?


We're not just talking about CL though. I'm not sure Ancelotti could win us the PL or CL. He seems to have won things win clubs that generally win things anyway. Maybe I'm wrong


What’s Arteta going to win us though. The guy has never won a CL or league and his performance so far has left a lot to be desired.

I’d hedge my bets he never wins any of them either. I’d rather have someone that has than someone who never has.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sun May 29, 2022 7:20 pm

Hypergooner wrote:
Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Ach wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Has Ancelotti done well with a team that wasn't already winning leagues and CL trophies?

Yes. Real Madrid


Come off it. You can’t claim Real Madrid weren't already in a position to be winning trophies. It's still an expectation in Madrid! I'm talking about a club like Arsenal where top 4 is an achievement


Real had to come back from behind in every single elimination round.

Arsenal were 6 points clear in 4th with 3 games in hand against bottom half teams.

Who had the harder job?


We're not just talking about CL though. I'm not sure Ancelotti could win us the PL or CL. He seems to have won things win clubs that generally win things anyway. Maybe I'm wrong


Why would he have to win us the PL? Arteta is on £8.3m and is only now being told to get Top 4.

Ancelotti is a top man manager and would have sorted out the dressing room conflicts in the Emery era without throwing the baby out with the bath water like Arteta has. He wouldn't have fumbled Top 4 anywhere as comically as Arteta has playing 1 game a week.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Marsbar100 » Sun May 29, 2022 7:23 pm

Should have got him
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Hypergooner » Sun May 29, 2022 8:00 pm

Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Ach wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Has Ancelotti done well with a team that wasn't already winning leagues and CL trophies?

Yes. Real Madrid


Come off it. You can’t claim Real Madrid weren't already in a position to be winning trophies. It's still an expectation in Madrid! I'm talking about a club like Arsenal where top 4 is an achievement


Real had to come back from behind in every single elimination round.

Arsenal were 6 points clear in 4th with 3 games in hand against bottom half teams.

Who had the harder job?


We're not just talking about CL though. I'm not sure Ancelotti could win us the PL or CL. He seems to have won things win clubs that generally win things anyway. Maybe I'm wrong


Why would he have to win us the PL? Arteta is on £8.3m and is only now being told to get Top 4.

Ancelotti is a top man manager and would have sorted out the dressing room conflicts in the Emery era without throwing the baby out with the bath water like Arteta has. He wouldn't have fumbled Top 4 anywhere as comically as Arteta has playing 1 game a week.


Fair comment. I would have been happy if he had replaced Wenger or Emry really. At leased he is a big name manager. Arsenal are Arsenal though. We like to try to be trend setters and progressive thinkers, rather than just getting a safe choice
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby elkanofan » Sun May 29, 2022 10:05 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
elkanofan wrote:We could of had Ancelotti or Jose in 2019, 2021 respectivley.

We could of kept Emery.

All have won European trophies in the last two seasons.

We are 'pushing hard for 4th' under Arteta. Or eseentially just bottling 3rd handed to us on a plate.


Levels..........


Every manager we passed up, fired or didn't bother with has all won trophies and titles since. :rofll:

Tuchel, Klopp and more to the point Emery and Ancelotti.

Its fkin embarrassing.

Even Conte just made top 4 at least.

We're are being run by losers just in it for the cash grab, Vinai, Stan, Edu, Arteta.

All inexperienced football rookies in their current fields just syphoning off money from Arsenal's name.
Ancelotti was my first choice to replace emery which just makes it even worse looking at what he did yesterday lol.

Apart from Chelsea Ancelotti triumphed against a superior talented opponent every round.

Madrid really arent the same force they were in 2014 or the Zidane years with CR7, peak Bale & Modric, Marcelo days etc.. The role hes asked Valverde to play was the key for this triumph. Defensive false Winger to help out in defence as an extra and when on the ball adding support to Carvajal as the main width on the right and helping link possesion when attacks built from the center or left.

Valverde is not a creative player, hes a Uruguayan version of Michael Essien essentially, this is the future of football, boring, all round workman like players as the game becomes more and more about stamina than creativity and skill. The irony is the entire reason for Valverde in that defensive winger role is because Rodriygo, Bale, Hazard arent good enough on the opposite flat to Vinicius to win games on their own as a starter against europes elite inconjuction with Modric, Kroos being super slow and need support and energy around them ti move the ball from back to front.

Ancelloti maybe a older manager but that experience in seeing the value of Valverde in that role to help them compete vs better talented teams in PSG, Man City and Liverpool is why he now has his 4th Champions League title spanning 19 years. Arteta dosen't have these qualities as he's still trying to figure himself out as a coach with amatuers around him putting everything on him to succed to hang on to their well paid comfortable jobs without needing to be ambitious.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby DiamondGooner » Sun May 29, 2022 11:26 pm

Ach wrote:AnCeLoTtI is finished some said

Looooooooolllll


Have to admit I was partly in that camp.

I basically said I think his best days are behind him when he went to Everton.

But have to say he's done an amazing job with those Madrid players, some of them like Benzema are playing the best football of their careers.

Also them beating Liverpool, a team that trounces the Prem season in, season out is impressive.

.......... and some members here, well one in particular continously parrots that the Premier league is this god tier league that no other league can compare to but yet Bayern, PSG, Real and formally Barcelona etc compare pretty well every year.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Mon May 30, 2022 6:37 am

Hypergooner wrote:
Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Ach wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Has Ancelotti done well with a team that wasn't already winning leagues and CL trophies?

Yes. Real Madrid


Come off it. You can’t claim Real Madrid weren't already in a position to be winning trophies. It's still an expectation in Madrid! I'm talking about a club like Arsenal where top 4 is an achievement


Real had to come back from behind in every single elimination round.

Arsenal were 6 points clear in 4th with 3 games in hand against bottom half teams.

Who had the harder job?


We're not just talking about CL though. I'm not sure Ancelotti could win us the PL or CL. He seems to have won things win clubs that generally win things anyway. Maybe I'm wrong

I hear you, for the longest time I had the same opinion, that Ancelotti can only win things with the biggest/richest clubs in their respective leagues and that has been borne out, he did nothing of note at Everton or Napoli. However, Everton was a solid rebuild that he needed to undertake so we are none the wiser as to whether or not he could do it and Napoli finished 2nd (they finished 2nd in their previous season before Ancelotti), so its not like he did bad or failed.

There can be no doubt that he is a better manager than Arteta though, Arteta has proven to our detriment that he cannot handle big or top players or players with egos (which most top players have).

We are doomed to mediocrity because Arteta cannot handle the best players.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby starmandb » Wed Jun 01, 2022 10:14 pm

Highbury Hillbilly wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:
Ach wrote:
Hypergooner wrote:Has Ancelotti done well with a team that wasn't already winning leagues and CL trophies?

Yes. Real Madrid


Come off it. You can’t claim Real Madrid weren't already in a position to be winning trophies. It's still an expectation in Madrid! I'm talking about a club like Arsenal where top 4 is an achievement


Real had to come back from behind in every single elimination round.

Arsenal were 6 points clear in 4th with 3 games in hand against bottom half teams.

Who had the harder job?

We didn’t have 3 games in hand of spurs when we 6 points clear of them and they had Newcastle Aston Villa Brentford Burnley and Norwich to play
All finished bottom half
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby KG3 » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:22 am

Can only wonder how good the likes of Martinelli, Saka and ESR would be under Carlo, all three of them could easily be pushing 30+ G/A per season

Look at the work he’s done before with DCL and Vinicius

DCL 18/19 (Manager Silva/Ferguson)

All comps 38 apps 8 goals 3 assists

DCL 20/21 (Manager Ancelotti)

39 apps 21 goals 5 assists

V. junior 20/21 (Manager Zidane)

All comps - 49 apps 6 goals 6 assists

V. Junior 21/22 - (Manager Ancelotti)

All comps - 52 apps 22 goals 20 assists

To think we passed up on Carlo at the time when he was available for some novice, one of the dumbest decisions we’ve ever made.

These youngsters are starving, they’re aren’t going to reach the levels they should under Arteta. Very few managers are capable of bringing out another level in a player, the next time someone of that managerial level is available, we shouldn’t hesitate to sack Arteta and bring them in.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jun 03, 2022 9:41 am

The DCL transformation was astounding, prior to it he was just another kack homegrown British player who only got games because he was homegrown.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Fri Jun 03, 2022 12:44 pm

KG3 wrote:
To think we passed up on Carlo at the time when he was available for some novice, one of the dumbest decisions we’ve ever made.

These youngsters are starving, they’re aren’t going to reach the levels they should under Arteta. Very few managers are capable of bringing out another level in a player, the next time someone of that managerial level is available, we shouldn’t hesitate to sack Arteta and bring them in.


The structure of the club has to change first. We are where we are because Arsenal were happy to make Arteta the main decision maker like Wenger was. We tried the DOF + head coach approach with Sven/Raul and Unai for barely a year before going back to the "manager as feudal lord" system

That's why we struggled to move Wenger on, and why Arteta has bagged himself a new contract. Josh and Vinai have no footballing vision, so they're happy to have Arteta make the big calls.

Carlo is a man manager, he does pretty well with whoever the DOF recruits. He acts like an employee, as opposed to a club executive, so he tries to get results asap instead of talking about next season, young team, building for the future etc.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Angelito » Fri Jun 03, 2022 6:47 pm

Highbury Hillbilly wrote:The structure of the club has to change first. We are where we are because Arsenal were happy to make Arteta the main decision maker like Wenger was. We tried the DOF + head coach approach with Sven/Raul and Unai for barely a year before going back to the "manager as feudal lord" system


This is what baffles me.

The whole cold war between Gazidis and Wenger was for this. Gazidis wanted to install the Bayern Munich structure at Arsenal—with a DoF that instills the vision and sets the objectives, a Head Coach who implements it, and a Head of Recruitment/Technical Director that works as a buffer, whilst spearheading the overall recruitment of players and scouts. This particular system already existed in City, Chelsea, and Liverpool.

How soon we ditched this setup after sacking Emery is mind-boggling. It started sooner, after Gazidis left. Sanllehi got rid of Mislintat and that spiralled into a snowball, which made Arteta the wholesole runner of the show.

In hindsight, it all looks like one grand show orchestrated to get rid of Wenger. Gazidis leaving immediately after Wenger is also sus. I've read that AFTV now have a seat in Arteta's press conferences. Not sure if that's true as I don't follow their content. If anyone is in the loop, they could chip in.

In all of this, the endgame for the Kroenkes was the Super League. I still think that's the goal. UEFA has revamped the UCL to essentially allow top-5 clubs from Spain and England a twisted qualification. Let's see how far that goes.

There's no point blaming Arteta here, tbh. They offered Arteta an extension before the season ended. That was planned and calculated. They, more or less, forecasted that we wouldn't qualify for the Champions League, so did what they had to do when fan sentiment was at a high.

Frankly, we have to question the club and not Arteta here. They rode on Wenger's ethical appeal for as long as it was possible. And, now, I feel—my hunch—they are using Arteta in this transition between now and the eventuality of the Super League.

Let's not forget that the money we're splashing isn't a byproduct of our self-sustainability model, nor is it coming from Stan's pocket. We're taking loans to fund our recruitment. So, if shit hits the fans, KSE doesn't lose anything. Their exit is well-planned even if that's not ideal for them. KSE would receive £2.5-3b if they are forced to sell Arsenal. The debt becomes Arsenal's headache. KSE is well protected as long as we're not relegated.

They could have backed Wenger if they so wished. But they let him suffer with the self-sustainability model. Today, that provision is out of the window and we're sailing through debts to fund our transfers.

KSE's long game is brilliant from a business standpoint. They have their bases covered. And, they've deployed David Ornstein and Amy Lawrence strategically for their PR.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Jun 03, 2022 7:13 pm

Angelito wrote:
Highbury Hillbilly wrote:The structure of the club has to change first. We are where we are because Arsenal were happy to make Arteta the main decision maker like Wenger was. We tried the DOF + head coach approach with Sven/Raul and Unai for barely a year before going back to the "manager as feudal lord" system


This is what baffles me.

The whole cold war between Gazidis and Wenger was for this. Gazidis wanted to install the Bayern Munich structure at Arsenal—with a DoF that instills the vision and sets the objectives, a Head Coach who implements it, and a Head of Recruitment/Technical Director that works as a buffer, whilst spearheading the overall recruitment of players and scouts. This particular system already existed in City, Chelsea, and Liverpool.

How soon we ditched this setup after sacking Emery is mind-boggling. It started sooner, after Gazidis left. Sanllehi got rid of Mislintat and that spiralled into a snowball, which made Arteta the wholesole runner of the show.

In hindsight, it all looks like one grand show orchestrated to get rid of Wenger. Gazidis leaving immediately after Wenger is also sus. I've read that AFTV now have a seat in Arteta's press conferences. Not sure if that's true as I don't follow their content. If anyone is in the loop, they could chip in.

In all of this, the endgame for the Kroenkes was the Super League. I still think that's the goal. UEFA has revamped the UCL to essentially allow top-5 clubs from Spain and England a twisted qualification. Let's see how far that goes.

There's no point blaming Arteta here, tbh. They offered Arteta an extension before the season ended. That was planned and calculated. They, more or less, forecasted that we wouldn't qualify for the Champions League, so did what they had to do when fan sentiment was at a high.

Frankly, we have to question the club and not Arteta here. They rode on Wenger's ethical appeal for as long as it was possible. And, now, I feel—my hunch—they are using Arteta in this transition between now and the eventuality of the Super League.

Let's not forget that the money we're splashing isn't a byproduct of our self-sustainability model, nor is it coming from Stan's pocket. We're taking loans to fund our recruitment. So, if shit hits the fans, KSE doesn't lose anything. Their exit is well-planned even if that's not ideal for them. KSE would receive £2.5-3b if they are forced to sell Arsenal. The debt becomes Arsenal's headache. KSE is well protected as long as we're not relegated.

They could have backed Wenger if they so wished. But they let him suffer with the self-sustainability model. Today, that provision is out of the window and we're sailing through debts to fund our transfers.

KSE's long game is brilliant from a business standpoint. They have their bases covered. And, they've deployed David Ornstein and Amy Lawrence strategically for their PR.


AFTV having a seat in Arsenal's press conferences wouldn't surprise me. A few bloggers/podcasters have some sort of connection with the club if they have a large enough audience. All part of the PR strategy.
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby theHotHead » Sun Jun 05, 2022 5:13 am

Wait, so we have been funding purchases from loans?!! Is this common knowledge???

What the f**k?!!!! So these f***ers are putting us into debt
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Re: Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

Postby Hypergooner » Sun Jun 05, 2022 7:56 pm

I'd love to see Mourhino take over from Arteta out of anyone. He is proven, he brings comedy value and knows how to win football matches when it counts. The worst job he did was at Spurs and he got them to a final, which is huge with a team like Spurs.
Invincibility lies in the defence; the possibility of victory in the attack.

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