Arteta vs Ancelotti vs Mourinho

[Arsenal Tone]

Everton's form changed under big dunc before ancelotti arrived, I wonder if duncan ferguson is the main reason everton are doing well.

Perhaps we can swap Arteta for big Dunc

Or swap ljungberg for him

Or do the two for one deal

[emoji38]

[Salibatelli]

Again I will make the same point. Mourinho had a much better starting point at Spurs, taking over a squad that finished in the top 4 the season before and reached the CL final.

Ancelotti took over a club that in the last 5 years have had Martinez, Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce, Silva, Ferguson and Ancelotti. In that same time Arsenal have had Wenger, Emery, Ljungberg and Arteta.

The Everton players are used to change, the Arsenal players have to lose the Wenger mentality. Everton were also already on an upward trajectory BEFORE Ancelotti took over, so he alone is not responsible for their improvement.

Arteta has the hardest and biggest job to do.

The Spurs argument I can leave because they have finished above us for the last few seasons.

But Everton? Over the last 5 seasons they have finished 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th and 8th again. Now all of sudden they are better than us? Even when we were at our worst under Unai they weren't above us in the table and even after we fired Unai they weren't above us. They haven't finished in the top 4 in over a decade but we have the hardest job?

It just doesn't make sense. The worst of the 'turmoil' you have spoken about was under Emery and Ljunberg. Everton were still below us in the table. Now that Arteta has come along we have first hand accounts from team members saying they are happier, feel more confident in the coach and tactics but we have fallen behind.

The season isn't over yet and we should catch up with Everton and overtake them but if we don't I'm not leaning on them being a better than us all of sudden.

We were on an inevitable downward spiral.
Our REPUTATION as a top club helped us cling on to 5th / 6th. Teams would come to the Emirates and defend hoping for a draw. Same for some teams even at their home ground.
We picked up a lot of points simply because our opponents let us have possession and thus had far less chances to score.
No one in the league fears us now - they know they can win and actually have a good chance of winning.
We're the underdogs in every away game and not much of a favourite to win in home games against the lower teams.
Our posession stats have dropped and you've seen even relegation level teams have more shots on target than us in games.

In terms of squad, Everton have been stronger than us for a while.

As it stands we're bottom half quality.

Stronger than us for a while but without finishing above us? Ok.

I can't remember the last time Everton finished above us, it was probably in the 80s, claiming they are stronger than us when they have failed to finished above us for so long is ludicrous, Everton aren't stronger than us, if they were they would have finished above us at some point.

The fact is Everton were below us even when Emery was having a nightmare of a season, well below us in fact, Ancelottis' 17 points out of 24 is unbelievable, Ferguson managed to get 1 win and 2 draws in his time in charge including a draw against us when we were in terrible form so clearly Ancelotti has made a huge difference, people can try and discredit him all they like but the fact he's got more points than anyone else except Liverpool in his time speaks for itself.

[Salibatelli]

I can understand people saying Arteta needs longer, what I can't understand is how they can accept the fact he's got 1 win 5 draws and 1 defeat, that's a terrible return, yes he inherited someone elses' squad but even with that in mind that's a pretty poor show, with most managers that come into a club mid season you certainly see an upturn in results, sure there's been some minor changes (early on anyway) but that's not really good enough. How many managers come in an start off this badly? I can'y imagine too many.

If he's as good a coach as people claim then he should do better than the results he's achieved so far, the squad has far more quality in it than the results suggest, as I said before, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Martinelli that's a top notch forward line, yes there are issues with the squa but a bit of rejigging and we should be able to win some games confortably.

[Arsenal Tone]

I can understand people saying Arteta needs longer, what I can't understand is how they can accept the fact he's got 1 win 5 draws and 1 defeat, that's a terrible return, yes he inherited someone elses' squad but even with that in mind that's a pretty poor show, with most managers that come into a club mid season you certainly see an upturn in results, sure there's been some minor changes (early on anyway) but that's not really good enough. How many managers come in an start off this badly? I can'y imagine too many.

If he's as good a coach as people claim then he should do better than the results he's achieved so far, the squad has far more quality in it than the results suggest, as I said before, Aubameyang, Lacazette, Pepe, Martinelli that's a top notch forward line, yes there are issues with the squa but a bit of rejigging and we should be able to win some games confortably.

Agreed

[Marsbar100]

Being hard to beat should be our first step, 1 loss in 7 is a good start, a game we was quite unlucky. After years of wenger and the defensive shambles of emery we need to focus on defence first. The other maanagers have done better result wise but its very early days and we need to focus on ourselves

[Salibatelli]

Being hard to beat should be our first step, 1 loss in 7 is a good start, a game we was quite unlucky. After years of wenger and the defensive shambles of emery we need to focus on defence first. The other maanagers have done better result wise but its very early days and we need to focus on ourselves

I personally think we should be doing that in the summer, right now it's about getting results and tyring to get up the table and qualifying for the CL via the EL, then in the summer we can focus on improving the defence by signings players (which is what we need as the current lot are sub par).

Being hard to beat is pointless right now what does it achieve, point every game? That's 2 dropped points would rather win 2 games than get 5 draws.

Besides a decent coach should be able to improve the team as a whole, not just focus on one area, Arteta has made us better defensively at the expense of our attack.

There's some stats I saw which show Arteta has the worst results statistically than his predecessors, worse attack and lower posession, however the defence has improved, stats don't obviously tell the whole story, but we can see that our defence is better but our attack appears not quite as good and more laboured (other than for the odd goal) and our results are certainly poor.

https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/how-arsenals-stats-under-emery-ljungberg-and-arteta-compare/

[ag6789]

The problem is the midfield. They're starving the forwards of decisive passes. Also, they have shown very little scoring ability themselves.Currently our forwards mostly depend on balls from the wings. The drive through the middle, and intricate passes to unlock defenses is pretty much dead since last season. It used be our hallmark. With the removal of Ramsey and Mikhi that midfield productivity has died. It was in decline when Cazorla left, but still we had production from midfield, but now, it is just side passes ending up in either give aways near the opponent box, or end up in the wings for 50/50 chances.

[Arsenal Tone]

The problem is the midfield. They're starving the forwards of decisive passes. Also, they have shown very little scoring ability themselves.Currently our forwards mostly depend on balls from the wings. The drive through the middle, and intricate passes to unlock defenses is pretty much dead since last season. It used be our hallmark. With the removal of Ramsey and Mikhi that midfield productivity has died. It was in decline when Cazorla left, but still we had production from midfield, but now, it is just side passes ending up in either give aways near the opponent box, or end up in the wings for 50/50 chances.

Teams pack the midfield against us, that intricate passing rubbish got found out years ago and Wenger never adapted. It wouldn't work even with a midfield full of cazorlas.

[ag6789]

It is never dead, intricate passing. ManCity, Barcelona does it effectively. You need skilled players to execute. Xhaka, Guan , Torreira won't do it , but if we could get David Silva, Gundagon, after their contracts end in summer, we would be up and running. Both are still good for couple of years.

[Arsenal Tone]

It is never dead, intricate passing. ManCity, Barcelona does it effectively. You need skilled players to execute. Xhaka, Guan , Torreira won't do it , but if we could get David Silva, Gundagon, after their contracts end in summer, we would be up and running. Both are still good for couple of years.

You just named teams made up of the best players in the world. Name a team playing that way with a similar budget to ours.

[jayramfootball]

Again I will make the same point. Mourinho had a much better starting point at Spurs, taking over a squad that finished in the top 4 the season before and reached the CL final.

Ancelotti took over a club that in the last 5 years have had Martinez, Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce, Silva, Ferguson and Ancelotti. In that same time Arsenal have had Wenger, Emery, Ljungberg and Arteta.

The Everton players are used to change, the Arsenal players have to lose the Wenger mentality. Everton were also already on an upward trajectory BEFORE Ancelotti took over, so he alone is not responsible for their improvement.

Arteta has the hardest and biggest job to do.

The Spurs argument I can leave because they have finished above us for the last few seasons.

But Everton? Over the last 5 seasons they have finished 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th and 8th again. Now all of sudden they are better than us? Even when we were at our worst under Unai they weren't above us in the table and even after we fired Unai they weren't above us. They haven't finished in the top 4 in over a decade but we have the hardest job?

It just doesn't make sense. The worst of the 'turmoil' you have spoken about was under Emery and Ljunberg. Everton were still below us in the table. Now that Arteta has come along we have first hand accounts from team members saying they are happier, feel more confident in the coach and tactics but we have fallen behind.

The season isn't over yet and we should catch up with Everton and overtake them but if we don't I'm not leaning on them being a better than us all of sudden.

We were on an inevitable downward spiral.
Our REPUTATION as a top club helped us cling on to 5th / 6th. Teams would come to the Emirates and defend hoping for a draw. Same for some teams even at their home ground.
We picked up a lot of points simply because our opponents let us have possession and thus had far less chances to score.
No one in the league fears us now - they know they can win and actually have a good chance of winning.
We're the underdogs in every away game and not much of a favourite to win in home games against the lower teams.
Our posession stats have dropped and you've seen even relegation level teams have more shots on target than us in games.

In terms of squad, Everton have been stronger than us for a while.

As it stands we're bottom half quality.

Stronger than us for a while but without finishing above us? Ok.

Seriously, have a read what I wrote.
Teams were playing us for a point but no longer are.
That can be seen in both our posession stats dropping and our shots on goal conceded.
When a team comes to the Emirates for a point, we were always more likely to be strong at home, thus picking up points.
No longer.
That's why other teams are passing us by.

[Salibatelli]

The problem is the midfield. They're starving the forwards of decisive passes. Also, they have shown very little scoring ability themselves.Currently our forwards mostly depend on balls from the wings. The drive through the middle, and intricate passes to unlock defenses is pretty much dead since last season. It used be our hallmark. With the removal of Ramsey and Mikhi that midfield productivity has died. It was in decline when Cazorla left, but still we had production from midfield, but now, it is just side passes ending up in either give aways near the opponent box, or end up in the wings for 50/50 chances.

Teams pack the midfield against us, that intricate passing rubbish got found out years ago and Wenger never adapted. It wouldn't work even with a midfield full of cazorlas.

Yeah, that's yesterdays' football, Barcelona can't pull it off anymore, City have been outclassed by Liverpool playing a vastly superior pacey football, we want to be more progressive and leave that horrible nightmare of football Wenger played behind us for good.

[Salibatelli]

It is never dead, intricate passing. ManCity, Barcelona does it effectively. You need skilled players to execute. Xhaka, Guan , Torreira won't do it , but if we could get David Silva, Gundagon, after their contracts end in summer, we would be up and running. Both are still good for couple of years.

We've got no chance of getting players like them, they'll either want to move to bigger more successful clubs on in Silvas' case back to Spain I would think.

Been there done that now, Wenger tried it for it for years and failed, it's time to move away from that type of football now and leave it in the past where it belongs.

[Salibatelli]

The problem is the midfield. They're starving the forwards of decisive passes. Also, they have shown very little scoring ability themselves.Currently our forwards mostly depend on balls from the wings. The drive through the middle, and intricate passes to unlock defenses is pretty much dead since last season. It used be our hallmark. With the removal of Ramsey and Mikhi that midfield productivity has died. It was in decline when Cazorla left, but still we had production from midfield, but now, it is just side passes ending up in either give aways near the opponent box, or end up in the wings for 50/50 chances.

Arteta has adopted that kind of football, he should be telling players to move it forward quickly or dropping them if they don't, all we see if Xhaka move it around at snails pace and rather than passing it forward when he has the chance, turning back and passing it backwards or sideways and then all we hear is praise for this dud from Arteta.

This comes from the manager, it's doesn't take Einstein to change that if you want to, if players don't you drop them and replace them with someone that will, Arteta doesn't though, he keeps faith with players that hinder our progress going forward.

[Salibatelli]

Again I will make the same point. Mourinho had a much better starting point at Spurs, taking over a squad that finished in the top 4 the season before and reached the CL final.

Ancelotti took over a club that in the last 5 years have had Martinez, Koeman, Unsworth, Allardyce, Silva, Ferguson and Ancelotti. In that same time Arsenal have had Wenger, Emery, Ljungberg and Arteta.

The Everton players are used to change, the Arsenal players have to lose the Wenger mentality. Everton were also already on an upward trajectory BEFORE Ancelotti took over, so he alone is not responsible for their improvement.

Arteta has the hardest and biggest job to do.

The Spurs argument I can leave because they have finished above us for the last few seasons.

But Everton? Over the last 5 seasons they have finished 11th, 11th, 7th, 8th and 8th again. Now all of sudden they are better than us? Even when we were at our worst under Unai they weren't above us in the table and even after we fired Unai they weren't above us. They haven't finished in the top 4 in over a decade but we have the hardest job?

It just doesn't make sense. The worst of the 'turmoil' you have spoken about was under Emery and Ljunberg. Everton were still below us in the table. Now that Arteta has come along we have first hand accounts from team members saying they are happier, feel more confident in the coach and tactics but we have fallen behind.

The season isn't over yet and we should catch up with Everton and overtake them but if we don't I'm not leaning on them being a better than us all of sudden.

We were on an inevitable downward spiral.
Our REPUTATION as a top club helped us cling on to 5th / 6th. Teams would come to the Emirates and defend hoping for a draw. Same for some teams even at their home ground.
We picked up a lot of points simply because our opponents let us have possession and thus had far less chances to score.
No one in the league fears us now - they know they can win and actually have a good chance of winning.
We're the underdogs in every away game and not much of a favourite to win in home games against the lower teams.
Our posession stats have dropped and you've seen even relegation level teams have more shots on target than us in games.

In terms of squad, Everton have been stronger than us for a while.

As it stands we're bottom half quality.

Stronger than us for a while but without finishing above us? Ok.

Seriously, have a read what I wrote.
Teams were playing us for a point but no longer are.
That can be seen in both our posession stats dropping and our shots on goal conceded.
When a team comes to the Emirates for a point, we were always more likely to be strong at home, thus picking up points.
No longer.
That's why other teams are passing us by.

We play the wrong brand of football anyhow, if they want to attack us we should be using our pace to punish them, instead Arteta has us moving the ball around slower than a sloth on a day of rest.