The Players : Are they good enough?

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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:29 am

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
theHotHead wrote:A good manager will get the best out of most of our players and you can't tell me that getting the best out of most of our players wouldn't be good enough to compete for the top 4


Managers make a massive difference as do systems obviously. The number of examples of players coming in that thrived under Wenger that flopped is pretty high. Likewise players we bought who have floundered under Wenger is too long.

Sanchez was lost when he first arrived, as is Pepe.


What the hell are you talking about? - Sanchez started scoring and assisting as soon as he arrived at the club and ended his first season with 25 goals.
Stop rewriting history to prop up Pepe, who has been awful since he arrived.
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Santi » Thu Dec 05, 2019 3:59 pm

elkanofan wrote:
Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.
Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.



Lol alright I’ll wake up from my dream that Bellerin, Auba, Laca, ozil, Pepe, Tierney and Leno are all good enough for top 4. Really what am I thinking??

Like if we had that Chelsea 10th place season we wouldn’t have had everyone on here going SELL WILLIAN HES SHIT SELL PEDRO HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 TEAM.

Then both won the league again. Look at the f***ing squad they won the league with in 2016/17 and give me a top class player outside of Hazard and Azpili.

Conte simply played to the players strengths and it worked perfectly.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:13 pm

Santi wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.
Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.



Lol alright I’ll wake up from my dream that Bellerin, Auba, Laca, ozil, Pepe, Tierney and Leno are all good enough for top 4. Really what am I thinking??

Like if we had that Chelsea 10th place season we wouldn’t have had everyone on here going SELL WILLIAN HES SHIT SELL PEDRO HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 TEAM.

Then both won the league again. Look at the f***ing squad they won the league with in 2016/17 and give me a top class player outside of Hazard and Azpili.

Conte simply played to the players strengths and it worked perfectly.


Agreed. I think this whole thread is a complete overreaction. It only takes one good performance and win for opinions to flip again.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby jayramfootball » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:19 pm

Power n Glory wrote:
Santi wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.
Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.



Lol alright I’ll wake up from my dream that Bellerin, Auba, Laca, ozil, Pepe, Tierney and Leno are all good enough for top 4. Really what am I thinking??

Like if we had that Chelsea 10th place season we wouldn’t have had everyone on here going SELL WILLIAN HES SHIT SELL PEDRO HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 TEAM.

Then both won the league again. Look at the f***ing squad they won the league with in 2016/17 and give me a top class player outside of Hazard and Azpili.

Conte simply played to the players strengths and it worked perfectly.


Agreed. I think this whole thread is a complete overreaction. It only takes one good performance and win for opinions to flip again.


Seriously?
Questioning whether the players are good enough is an over reaction?
We're awful right now. Just how bad will it need to get before we can question the players then?
No matter how bad it gets, at least we don't have to put up with Wenger anymore
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby ag6789 » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:27 pm

Two wins and we'll be gung ho again.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby elkanofan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:36 pm

Santi wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.
Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.



Lol alright I’ll wake up from my dream that Bellerin, Auba, Laca, ozil, Pepe, Tierney and Leno are all good enough for top 4. Really what am I thinking??


Let me help you with some ice cold water from the stream of reality in 2019 going into 2020 next month.

- Ozil isn't good enough for Norwich let alone top 4, he would just about make the top 10 players in the MLS even.

- Pepe is at best Andros Townsend with a french accent on a good day.

- Bellerin has never ever been a good defensive player that assures you of quality and isn't even back to his best level after a big injury.

- Tierney can cross, but again, very average defender, he's good enough for another top 4 team just about.

- Only Auba and Laca are good enough to get into the other top 4 squads outright.

Like if we had that Chelsea 10th place season we wouldn’t have had everyone on here going SELL WILLIAN HES SHIT SELL PEDRO HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 TEAM.

Then both won the league again. Look at the f***ing squad they won the league with in 2016/17 and give me a top class player outside of Hazard and Azpili.


Both Willian and Pedro are both comfortably more effective players than Ozil and Pepe are now let alone in 2016/17.

Conte simply played to the players strengths and it worked perfectly.


You completely forgot about Diego Costa too. Remember Costa hated Conte and look how well he did for Chelsea that season! That an example of real quality! You don't even have to like the manager at all to play well. its all about players taking responsibility!

Your posts concern me, your not ready for the massacres that are to come with this team. I don't know how your going to handle the next few months but these will be the very worst in Arsenals history since the early 80's maybe. Starman fill me in on this, when did we last go 3 months without a win in the league?

I'm at the point any win i'll be happy with however we play to get that win!

I care nothing about style right now. we need results!
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Power n Glory » Thu Dec 05, 2019 4:48 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
Santi wrote:
elkanofan wrote:
Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.
Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.



Lol alright I’ll wake up from my dream that Bellerin, Auba, Laca, ozil, Pepe, Tierney and Leno are all good enough for top 4. Really what am I thinking??

Like if we had that Chelsea 10th place season we wouldn’t have had everyone on here going SELL WILLIAN HES SHIT SELL PEDRO HES NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR A TOP 4 TEAM.

Then both won the league again. Look at the f***ing squad they won the league with in 2016/17 and give me a top class player outside of Hazard and Azpili.

Conte simply played to the players strengths and it worked perfectly.


Agreed. I think this whole thread is a complete overreaction. It only takes one good performance and win for opinions to flip again.


Seriously?
Questioning whether the players are good enough is an over reaction?
We're awful right now. Just how bad will it need to get before we can question the players then?


Right now is the key word. If Freddie pulls off a minor miracle or the club appoint a very good manager that whips this team into shape, this conversation stops. This is premature. I’m more focused on what the Freddie is saying about the style he’s trying to implement and whether we start seeing improvements in some areas. It’s obvious we’re not good enough for the title right now and it’s obvious the club aren’t going to spend millions in a couple of windows to change that. So what’s the purpose of this thread? To scapegoat a few more individual players?

The funny thing is, you’re the most vocal when it comes to criticising Pepe and it’s that sort of attitude and lack of support that tends to find its way into the media and helps fuel narrative about the player and our supporters. That will resonate with the Board and it will discourage them from going big in the transfer window again.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby aniym » Thu Dec 05, 2019 6:39 pm

Santi wrote:Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.


Chelsea had no European football in Conte's first season, which helped them reach 93 points. One year later, with CL football: 70 points, i.e. Emery level.

Still, they are an outlier because their culture has been built on bringing in managers and throwing them away. The players are used to it. Hazard played at a consistent level (except 15/16) despite having 6 managers in 7 years.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Zenith » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:04 pm

Not one bit surprised. If you don't have pace and athleticism you need finesse and intelligence.

We're lacking severely in all of those aspects.

Our speed of thought and execution is among the worst in the league and none of that will change before we rebuild our entire midfield.

Compoud the abovementioned issues by a poorly managed and confused group of players and you have the recipe for what we're witnessing at present.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Godlop » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:14 pm

We need to play more players like AMN, Nelson or ESR that got good pace and acceleration.
Also Martinelli needs to be a starter for the PL without a doubt.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Santi » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:15 pm

Zenith wrote:Not one bit surprised. If you don't have pace and athleticism you need finesse and intelligence.

We're lacking severely in all of those aspects.

Our speed of thought and execution is among the worst in the league and none of that will change before we rebuild our entire midfield.

Compoud the abovementioned issues by a poorly managed and confused group of players and you have the recipe for what we're witnessing at present.



Exactly. Fix the 2/3 in the middle and watch the entire team become better players.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Santi » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:16 pm

And guess who we miss?



OHHHHH SANTI CAZORLAAAA
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby BS221B » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:51 pm

They are more than good enough for top 4. Its just they are not properly coached, so cant improve themselves. Bellerin was considered to be what Alexander-Arnold today, not surprisingly his decline has started with Wengers departure.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Dejan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 9:54 pm

our backline + defensive midfielders arent good enough to make us good enough to be a top 4 team.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby elkanofan » Thu Dec 05, 2019 10:25 pm

Talking of defenders we really need another right back. a proper one and Hector can be like our mascot or backup.

Center backs while shit, can't help but feel the non existent midfield makes them look worse than they are.
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