The Players : Are they good enough?

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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:46 am

StLGooner wrote:Good enough for what first of all?

They're good enough to battle for a CL spot. Yes!

Exactly this and anyone that says otherwise is talking bare pap!
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Phil71 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:50 am

A good manager should be able to get into 3rd place with this squad.

They have to be coached into defending as a team. It was Wenger's biggest failing in his last years, and Emery has had 18 months to do it and also failed miserably.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 03, 2019 8:58 am

Santi wrote:
Marsbar100 wrote:Liverpool, spurs and city have a much better squad. We should be bale to compete with the rest.



The top 4 writes itself in terms of team quality

Liverpool
City
Spurs
Leicester

But given the easier fixture list and respective starts it should end up with Spurs and Leicester swapping. Yes Chelsea’s squad is nowhere near the same level and they are well over performing.

For us to get top 4 this year is almost impossible, we need Spurs to keep dropping points and us to go on a ridiculous run that overhauls both them and the gap we’ve let Chelsea have.

I don't agree, nobody had Leicester as anywhere near top 4, its largely the same players as last season, they lost their best defender and brought in am unknown and brought in Perez who is nothing special. They are over-performing because they have a good manager.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby VCC » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:01 am

At the moment not good enough at all.
With the right person organising things and getting into the top 6 inches of the players, correct motivation and culture/environment top 4 easily
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby theHotHead » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:22 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:With one training session, Freddie managed to get these players playing possession based football. We created more chances for an away game compared to what we managed under Emery. Again, that's just under one training session. We were comfortably playing the ball out from the back and bypassing the press and that's with Xhaka on the pitch. After 18 months of Emery, not once did we look that comfortable playing the ball out from deep that way.

Freddie will need some time and realistically, they are not going to buy a whole new squad in January. Because we're in limbo, our January transfer strategy is a bit of a mess. Players are key but we need to establish what the new manager can do and what he can't with this lot. We're coming out of a toxic management situation with Emery the dust needs to settle. We've seen how bad management can make Eden Hazard and Salah look bad. We've seen how poor management can have people overlook the talent of De Bruyne and allow such a player to leave. I'm sure the Board will allow more time before making sweeping changes.


Holy crap - we scrapped a 2-2 draw with a team that is 99% getting relegated ... a team that had scored 2 and conceded 10 in their last three home games ... we allowed Norwich more shots on goal than any other team has in over a year, and that's an improvement?

Way to early for Freddy to get credit / blame but let's not pretend, against one of the weakest teams in the EPL that was a shocking performance. The hard work starts now let's not make any wild claims until at lest ten games in.

And yet they were good enough to beat Man City.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:24 am

Phil71 wrote:A good manager should be able to get into 3rd place with this squad.

They have to be coached into defending as a team. It was Wenger's biggest failing in his last years, and Emery has had 18 months to do it and also failed miserably.


So better squads than two from City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea all who could be in the CL last 16 ... you honestly believe that?
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Phil71 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 9:40 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Phil71 wrote:A good manager should be able to get into 3rd place with this squad.

They have to be coached into defending as a team. It was Wenger's biggest failing in his last years, and Emery has had 18 months to do it and also failed miserably.


So better squads than two from City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea all who could be in the CL last 16 ... you honestly believe that?


I believe our squad is as good or better than Chelsea and spuds. With a good manager to coach the players correctly - especially in regard to defending as a team - we can certainly finish above them.

I do think we need to add one quality defensive midfield player.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby EliteKiller » Tue Dec 03, 2019 10:13 am

Phil71 wrote:I believe our squad is as good or better than Chelsea and spuds. With a good manager to coach the players correctly - especially in regard to defending as a team - we can certainly finish above them.

I do think we need to add one quality defensive midfield player.


Whilst I admire your passion you can't honestly believe that, look at the valuations

Arsenal Squad size: 25
Average age: 25,0
National team players: 10
Valuation €690.75m

Tottenham Squad size: 25
Average age: 26,6
National team players: 19
Valuation €985.00m

Chelsea squad size: 25
Average age: 26,3
National team players: 18
Valuation €807.00m

Now whilst you can argue about the valuation on a few players overall both Spuds and Chelsea have almost double the number of Internationals and are valued at considerably more ... add to that the fact they have on average a year's more experience per player and to say we are as good or better is placing a ridiculous demand on any new manager ... we have the 5/6/7th best squad, to achieve top four would be a massive over achievement it could be done but it's highly unlikely and certainly not a reasonable expectation.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby StLGooner » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:18 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:........... but they don't have the skill that's the problem.

Their final balls or ability to create chances sucks, Martinelli is a teenager and his final balls are better than our seniors.

Even Auba and Laca are having problems linking, Ozil's not doing much of anything either apart from a few cute moves.

We need an aggressive formation like Leicesters, wave after wave of attack because we're just not creating enough and are consistently getting done over by defences locking out the few and far between chances we try and in return getting clowned on the break because our CB's suck to high hell.



Many of our players are underperforming, which means they are better than they are playing like right now, so they're having off years. It happens to every professional athlete and team, you just hope that it doesn't happen to many of your players in the same season. However, good managers can get underperforming players to play better. We still have good enough players to battle for a CL spot and to play better than we are now.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Dec 03, 2019 1:59 pm

StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:........... but they don't have the skill that's the problem.

Their final balls or ability to create chances sucks, Martinelli is a teenager and his final balls are better than our seniors.

Even Auba and Laca are having problems linking, Ozil's not doing much of anything either apart from a few cute moves.

We need an aggressive formation like Leicesters, wave after wave of attack because we're just not creating enough and are consistently getting done over by defences locking out the few and far between chances we try and in return getting clowned on the break because our CB's suck to high hell.



Many of our players are underperforming, which means they are better than they are playing like right now, so they're having off years. It happens to every professional athlete and team, you just hope that it doesn't happen to many of your players in the same season. However, good managers can get underperforming players to play better. We still have good enough players to battle for a CL spot and to play better than we are now.


who in the squad was on our last top 4 side that were key contributors? bellerin, ozil and...…?

imo, bellerin is overrated and ozil is on the downside of his career. what do you see in this current squad gives you such optimism?

usually teams have a significant change in attitude/effort when there is a new man in charge. look at man u with ole when he took over, as a recent example.

our match vs Norwich was a perfect opportunity for the players to show up and put in a shift for the new gaffer.

instead, they lay an egg and completely showed that the overall problem at the club should not have been laid strictly at UE's feet.

i'm sorry but that is alarming and a damaging endorsement that our squad is full of soft, pathetic, mental midgets.

clearly not good enough to compete for top 4.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby StLGooner » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:00 pm

coach8smallball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:........... but they don't have the skill that's the problem.

Their final balls or ability to create chances sucks, Martinelli is a teenager and his final balls are better than our seniors.

Even Auba and Laca are having problems linking, Ozil's not doing much of anything either apart from a few cute moves.

We need an aggressive formation like Leicesters, wave after wave of attack because we're just not creating enough and are consistently getting done over by defences locking out the few and far between chances we try and in return getting clowned on the break because our CB's suck to high hell.



Many of our players are underperforming, which means they are better than they are playing like right now, so they're having off years. It happens to every professional athlete and team, you just hope that it doesn't happen to many of your players in the same season. However, good managers can get underperforming players to play better. We still have good enough players to battle for a CL spot and to play better than we are now.


who in the squad was on our last top 4 side that were key contributors? bellerin, ozil and...…?

imo, bellerin is overrated and ozil is on the downside of his career. what do you see in this current squad gives you such optimism?

usually teams have a significant change in attitude/effort when there is a new man in charge. look at man u with ole when he took over, as a recent example.

our match vs Norwich was a perfect opportunity for the players to show up and put in a shift for the new gaffer.

instead, they lay an egg and completely showed that the overall problem at the club should not have been laid strictly at UE's feet.

i'm sorry but that is alarming and a damaging endorsement that our squad is full of soft, pathetic, mental midgets.

clearly not good enough to compete for top 4.



And a good manager can correct most of that.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Phil71 » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:10 pm

EliteKiller wrote:
Phil71 wrote:I believe our squad is as good or better than Chelsea and spuds. With a good manager to coach the players correctly - especially in regard to defending as a team - we can certainly finish above them.

I do think we need to add one quality defensive midfield player.


Whilst I admire your passion you can't honestly believe that, look at the valuations

Arsenal Squad size: 25
Average age: 25,0
National team players: 10
Valuation €690.75m

Tottenham Squad size: 25
Average age: 26,6
National team players: 19
Valuation €985.00m

Chelsea squad size: 25
Average age: 26,3
National team players: 18
Valuation €807.00m

Now whilst you can argue about the valuation on a few players overall both Spuds and Chelsea have almost double the number of Internationals and are valued at considerably more ... add to that the fact they have on average a year's more experience per player and to say we are as good or better is placing a ridiculous demand on any new manager ... we have the 5/6/7th best squad, to achieve top four would be a massive over achievement it could be done but it's highly unlikely and certainly not a reasonable expectation.


The valuations on our players, save the odd few, are based on their having played shit for the past x number of years.

One season of playing well and a lot of their values could double.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby coach8smallball » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:16 pm

StLGooner wrote:
coach8smallball wrote:
StLGooner wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:........... but they don't have the skill that's the problem.

Their final balls or ability to create chances sucks, Martinelli is a teenager and his final balls are better than our seniors.

Even Auba and Laca are having problems linking, Ozil's not doing much of anything either apart from a few cute moves.

We need an aggressive formation like Leicesters, wave after wave of attack because we're just not creating enough and are consistently getting done over by defences locking out the few and far between chances we try and in return getting clowned on the break because our CB's suck to high hell.



Many of our players are underperforming, which means they are better than they are playing like right now, so they're having off years. It happens to every professional athlete and team, you just hope that it doesn't happen to many of your players in the same season. However, good managers can get underperforming players to play better. We still have good enough players to battle for a CL spot and to play better than we are now.


who in the squad was on our last top 4 side that were key contributors? bellerin, ozil and...…?

imo, bellerin is overrated and ozil is on the downside of his career. what do you see in this current squad gives you such optimism?

usually teams have a significant change in attitude/effort when there is a new man in charge. look at man u with ole when he took over, as a recent example.

our match vs Norwich was a perfect opportunity for the players to show up and put in a shift for the new gaffer.

instead, they lay an egg and completely showed that the overall problem at the club should not have been laid strictly at UE's feet.

i'm sorry but that is alarming and a damaging endorsement that our squad is full of soft, pathetic, mental midgets.

clearly not good enough to compete for top 4.



And a good manager can correct most of that.


the hope is there for the possibility...but i'd prefer to just cut bait and bring in the players that suit the next manager's attributes. sticking with this lazy and spineless bunch just isn't worth it.
cheers!
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby Angelito » Tue Dec 03, 2019 2:41 pm

We have three GREAT players: Auba, Laca, and Ozil.

We have four GOOD players: Torreira, Bellerín, Pepe, and Leno.

We have a potential superstar: Martinelli.

We have a youngster with huge potential: Guendouzi.

We also have decent players in Tierney, Sokratis, and Holding.

We have a squad that Wenger would win the FA Cup with and would finish in the top-4 easily.

We need that Wenger replacement—only better than Wenger's final incarnation.

Do the right thing.

P.S. If you guys want to moan about Ozil, don't bother quoting me.
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Re: The Players : Are they good enough?

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Dec 03, 2019 4:01 pm

Angelito wrote:We have three GREAT players: Auba, Laca, and Ozil.

We have four GOOD players: Torreira, Bellerín, Pepe, and Leno.

We have a potential superstar: Martinelli.

We have a youngster with huge potential: Guendouzi.

We also have decent players in Tierney, Sokratis, and Holding.

We have a squad that Wenger would win the FA Cup with and would finish in the top-4 easily.

We need that Wenger replacement—only better than Wenger's final incarnation.

Do the right thing.

P.S. If you guys want to moan about Ozil, don't bother quoting me.


Overly generous in who you call great and good.
When you rate Pepe and Bellerin as good, you've gone beyond what is reasonable. To be fair Pepe might still come good, but Bellerin has been a car crash of a defender since he broke into the first team.
Unfortunately, on a number of levels, I have to agree with Elkofan when he says our squad is shite.
That's why I judged Emery on whether he understood we needed a massive overhaul and why I will quickly judge the next manager on his ability to grasp the same.
I thought we got our Arsenal back - but we got Emery
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