The Players : Are they good enough?

[StLGooner]

Unfortunately, on a number of levels, I have to agree with Elkofan when he says our squad is shite.

Thanks, just want to say I'm not brutally blunt and at times obnoxious for the sake of it. I'm really worried about this club.

We are in a total mess top to bottom, the Kronke's have taken this club progressively on a slow decline for a very long time.

I've haven't said much of anything in this thread because some may hate my essays but that just say much of whats being said here about how truly average our squad is.

Elite Killer isn't my favorite poster but he's been f***ing 100% spot on with many of his recent posts on our player quality also! Especially the one about our squad values being worse significantly than Spurs and the chavs!

Jay doesn't think it's Kroenkes fault, you two should discuss that.

If the Kronke's wanted to really push on and win things, I'm sure we would of already had a league title and a strong champions league push already especially in the last 4 years through the entirety of Kronke's ownership.

The fact is they came in at a similar time to when the Americans came in over at Anfield and look at the difference in results and how one club has gone forward from obscurity to being Europe's best team last year, while we have slowly gone backwards and grown more stale each year into a Europa League level side at best and clinging onto that!

Wenger became stale and outdated, that's obvious, however a proper progressive owner would have seen this and made the changes earlier, not waited so long that by the time we have restructured, we are in a total mess and we have dropped levels in club stature.

Possibly, but didn't Pool go backwards first too?

Although, my opinion on Kroenke isn't fair. I have reasons from outside of Arsenal to not just dislike, but actually hate the man. So I realized that my opinion would be extremely biased one way. Just being honest.

[elkanofan]

Possibly, but didn't Pool go backwards first too?

Although, my opinion on Kroenke isn't fair. I have reasons from outside of Arsenal to not just dislike, but actually hate the man. So I realized that my opinion would be extremely biased one way. Just being honest.

Don't hold back, say whats on your mind about Stan Kronke.

I dislike him too. That's why i write my essay's its good to say whats on your mind, you feel so much better and move onto other things after, don't be afraid so much about what others think.

[StLGooner]

Possibly, but didn't Pool go backwards first too?

Although, my opinion on Kroenke isn't fair. I have reasons from outside of Arsenal to not just dislike, but actually hate the man. So I realized that my opinion would be extremely biased one way. Just being honest.

Don't hold back, say whats on your mind about Stan Kronke.

I dislike him too. That's why i write my essay's its good to say whats on your mind, you feel so much better and move onto other things after, don't be afraid so much about what others think.

It's not about holding back. I've said plenty in the Kroenke thread. But as far as him owning Arsenal, my bias gets in the way of having a fair opinion about his time here at Arsenal. Having said that, I do think he could have and still could do more as an owner here. But like I said, I have different reasons to hate him, so I'll never be happy with him owning Arsenal.

[themessiah]

Much has been discussed about managers and who would be good enough to take the reins.
From the players the new manager has to work with who's good enough?

Leno - Yes
Martinez - Yes
Macey - Maybe

Bellerin - No
Tierney - Maybe
Sokratis - Maybe
Holding - No
Mustafi - No
Chambers - No
Luiz - No
Mavropanos - No
Kolasinac - No

Ceballos - No
Ozil - Maybe
Torriera - Yes
Maitland Niles - No
Willock - No
Guendouzi - Yes
Smith-Rowe - Maybe
Xhaka - No

Lacazette - Yes
Aubamayang - Yes
Pepe - Maybe
Nelson - No
Martinelli - Yes
Saka - Maybe

I only count 7 definate yes's out of the whole 1st team squad - none in defence.

Too harsh?
It's actually depressing listing out our players and seeing how bad this squad is.

Not harsh enough tbf

I will give you my honest opinion on the squad

Leno: Good shot stopper, lacks dominance in the air and his distribution and decision making with his feet are often very poor.

Martinez: Bar vs Liverpool (5-5)which will go down as the second worst Arsenal goalkeeping performance this decade behind Martinez vs Reading (7-5), okay in the air, decent shot stopper, needs to more aggressive and okay distribution

Macey : shocking keeper Hopefully Will he be moved on TBH if he can't keep his place in Plymouth argyle starting X1 he won't be making it at here

Tierney: Wand of a left peg, at times lacks positional sense but isn’t helped by injuries and the lack of partnerships in the side, often left exposed

Kolasinac : needs to be sold in January one of the worst left backs we've ever had. Can't tackle no positioning can't cross almost as bad as Andre Santos

Bellerin: Still recovering from long term injury, loves the club, could be one of the best RB out there, suffers like the other full backs from no balance or support, exposed to the entire wing.


Mainland-Niles: Relies on recovery pace only, awful player sell.

Mavropanos : Like Medley won't make it, Slow and injury prone.

Sokratis: Overly aggressive, positionally unaware, Over the hill and lacks any sort of composure or ability on the ball.

Mustafi: Error ridden, good on the ball both long and short progressive passes, but definitely the worst defender I've seen play for club , Absolutely no question.

Luiz: Erratic, crazy, loves a 60 yard ping, sad thing is he is the best of the bunch . Stop gap.

Holding: Suffered long term injury, good at a lot of things but excels at nothing. Run of the mill CB who is a squad player at best.

Chambers: Poverty player who had a purple patch sell

Xhaka: can't defend,not press resistant,slow, can't dribble, rely too much on his left foot,shit mentality, 0 leadership,no awarenesss. Only thing he has is a strong left foot and passing range. He isn't good enough for premier league will do better in slower league like Italy/Germany. Get rid in Jan


Torreira. He's Coquelin except shorter and weaker, and the reason he was played higher up the field is so it wasn't a disaster when he missed a tackle

Guendouzi: Has vision, shown real quality on the ball, often far too slow to release and lately erratic in possession, off the ball he is league 1 level, positionally unaware, leaves huge distances, needs time to learn his trade

Ceballos: One paced, loves a spin lol Terminate loan

Willock: Great energy, powerful direct runner in possession, box to box CM who can arrive late. I like him but Miles off the level at this stage, LOAN.

Aubameyang : Genuine gunman, limited footballer but genuinely world class in front of goal, better out wingers wide, box man he scores 35+ year in year out.


ERS- I really of fan of the lad but he is looking another Wilshere something like Jack. Injury prone and lacks end product.

Saka: Out of his depth, loan time is vital, has attributes needs time.

Özil : Man’s done been done for a few seasons. Truth be told, he is not good enough anymore. it's time for Ozil to make that move MLS retirement home.

Nelson won’t make it at here but he will make it at a club like . good technically but just a typical Arsenal academy player who won’t make it at the top level. I am not a fan of his i already made it attitude as well

Pèpè : has been absolutely awful. Really needs to step it up second half of the season, not looking any bit a £70m player so far.

Martinelli: Raw talent, full of energy, never hides always willing. His future is as a no.9 not a wide man. Instinctive even at this young age, sky is the limit and I wouldn’t be against him backing up Auba already.

[VCC]

Much has been discussed about managers and who would be good enough to take the reins.
From the players the new manager has to work with who's good enough?

Leno - Yes
Martinez - Yes
Macey - Maybe

Bellerin - No
Tierney - Maybe
Sokratis - Maybe
Holding - No
Mustafi - No
Chambers - No
Luiz - No
Mavropanos - No
Kolasinac - No

Ceballos - No
Ozil - Maybe
Torriera - Yes
Maitland Niles - No
Willock - No
Guendouzi - Yes
Smith-Rowe - Maybe
Xhaka - No

Lacazette - Yes
Aubamayang - Yes
Pepe - Maybe
Nelson - No
Martinelli - Yes
Saka - Maybe

I only count 7 definate yes's out of the whole 1st team squad - none in defence.

Too harsh?
It's actually depressing listing out our players and seeing how bad this squad is.

Not harsh enough tbf

I will give you my honest opinion on the squad

Leno: Good shot stopper, lacks dominance in the air and his distribution and decision making with his feet are often very poor.

Martinez: Bar vs Liverpool (5-5)which will go down as the second worst Arsenal goalkeeping performance this decade behind Martinez vs Reading (7-5), okay in the air, decent shot stopper, needs to more aggressive and okay distribution

Macey : shocking keeper Hopefully Will he be moved on TBH if he can't keep his place in Plymouth argyle starting X1 he won't be making it at here

Tierney: Wand of a left peg, at times lacks positional sense but isn’t helped by injuries and the lack of partnerships in the side, often left exposed

Kolasinac : needs to be sold in January one of the worst left backs we've ever had. Can't tackle no positioning can't cross almost as bad as Andre Santos

Bellerin: Still recovering from long term injury, loves the club, could be one of the best RB out there, suffers like the other full backs from no balance or support, exposed to the entire wing.


Mainland-Niles: Relies on recovery pace only, awful player sell.

Mavropanos : Like Medley won't make it, Slow and injury prone.

Sokratis: Overly aggressive, positionally unaware, Over the hill and lacks any sort of composure or ability on the ball.

Mustafi: Error ridden, good on the ball both long and short progressive passes, but definitely the worst defender I've seen play for club , Absolutely no question.

Luiz: Erratic, crazy, loves a 60 yard ping, sad thing is he is the best of the bunch . Stop gap.

Holding: Suffered long term injury, good at a lot of things but excels at nothing. Run of the mill CB who is a squad player at best.

Chambers: Poverty player who had a purple patch sell

Xhaka: can't defend,not press resistant,slow, can't dribble, rely too much on his left foot,shit mentality, 0 leadership,no awarenesss. Only thing he has is a strong left foot and passing range. He isn't good enough for premier league will do better in slower league like Italy/Germany. Get rid in Jan


Torreira. He's Coquelin except shorter and weaker, and the reason he was played higher up the field is so it wasn't a disaster when he missed a tackle

Guendouzi: Has vision, shown real quality on the ball, often far too slow to release and lately erratic in possession, off the ball he is league 1 level, positionally unaware, leaves huge distances, needs time to learn his trade

Ceballos: One paced, loves a spin lol Terminate loan

Willock: Great energy, powerful direct runner in possession, box to box CM who can arrive late. I like him but Miles off the level at this stage, LOAN.

Aubameyang : Genuine gunman, limited footballer but genuinely world class in front of goal, better out wingers wide, box man he scores 35+ year in year out.


ERS- I really of fan of the lad but he is looking another Wilshere something like Jack. Injury prone and lacks end product.

Saka: Out of his depth, loan time is vital, has attributes needs time.

Özil : Man’s done been done for a few seasons. Truth be told, he is not good enough anymore. it's time for Ozil to make that move MLS retirement home.

Nelson won’t make it at here but he will make it at a club like . good technically but just a typical Arsenal academy player who won’t make it at the top level. I am not a fan of his i already made it attitude as well

Pèpè : has been absolutely awful. Really needs to step it up second half of the season, not looking any bit a £70m player so far.

Martinelli: Raw talent, full of energy, never hides always willing. His future is as a no.9 not a wide man. Instinctive even at this young age, sky is the limit and I wouldn’t be against him backing up Auba already.

Good post pretty much agree with this assessment

[themessiah]

Forget up Lacazette lol

Think i overrated Lacazette a bit but is a good player, nothing more. That explains why no big club has ever wanted him.
Aubameyang is a very good finisher but an absolute rubbish footballer. Can’t hold the ball up, can’t pass, can’t head, can’t dribble. But great poacher

Lacazette as much as i like him is on thin ice now. He’s very close to being dropped if he doesn’t start adding goals. Before he could be exempted because he’d put the graft in. Away form will be his barometer.

[jayramfootball]

Forget up Lacazette lol

Think i overrated Lacazette a bit but is a good player, nothing more. That explains why no big club has ever wanted him.
Aubameyang is a very good finisher but an absolute rubbish footballer. Can’t hold the ball up, can’t pass, can’t head, can’t dribble. But great poacher

Lacazette as much as i like him is on thin ice now. He’s very close to being dropped if he doesn’t start adding goals. Before he could be exempted because he’d put the graft in. Away form will be his barometer.

I agree with most of your assessments - a couple of them I'd make more of case for, but generally speaking I think you described it all pretty well.

[jayramfootball]

Unfortunately, on a number of levels, I have to agree with Elkofan when he says our squad is shite.

Thanks, just want to say I'm not brutally blunt and at times obnoxious for the sake of it. I'm really worried about this club.

We are in a total mess top to bottom, the Kronke's have taken this club progressively on a slow decline for a very long time.

I've haven't said much of anything in this thread because some may hate my essays but that just say much of whats being said here about how truly average our squad is.

Elite Killer isn't my favorite poster but he's been f***ing 100% spot on with many of his recent posts on our player quality also! Especially the one about our squad values being worse significantly than Spurs and the chavs!

Jay doesn't think it's Kroenkes fault, you two should discuss that.

In my view the success of the club is down to players first, then the manager, then the owner.
That holds true in all cases IF the owner stays the hell out of any footballing discussion and just handles the finances - i.e. making them available.
All I want from Kroenke is the investment and he's done that - significantly so. Given some of the awful footballing decisions made by Wenger, we're lucky that Kroenke is still investing anything. So much of his money has been completely wasted. I can tell you that if I had spent £75m on Xhaka and Mustafi, getting more money out of me would be like getting blood from a stone.

[Salibatelli]

I think a decent manager whilst not able to fix all issues can make a huge difference, look at Rogers at Leicester with pretty much the same team as Puel had and now Mourinho, yes we'll have to sell and replace players for sure, but a decent manager will add more structure and drill his players into playing a certain way.

Our defence don't even know how to defend to be honest, it wouldn't take much to make them watch videos of some of the stuff they do and telling them they aren't doing it right and drilling them on how to do it. Our defenders for example are always backing away, one should be closing the attacker down whilst the other covers, we just don't work as a team, a decent manager would change that for a start.

Then you bring in new personnel to improve things.

[Salibatelli]

With regards Torreira, he's very good for Uruguay, we just have used him very badly, playing him out of position, probably doesn't know what his role is with us, Emery wanted him to be an attacking player lol.

I'm amazed Xhaka is back in the team to be honest, a total liability and should have never been accepted back, once again getting an easy ride, we should be getting rid of this guy ASAP not re-integrating him back into the team.

Sokratis, Mustafi are rubbish to be honest the former was always a poor signing, his age always meant we'd get a seaosn or two out of him before replacing him. Luiz is actually decent in midfield, he can pass and the issues that make him a poor CB aren't relavent in midfield.

Right now I'd be playing a combination of Chambers, Holding and Mavropanos in central defence, yes they're not top class but they are better than the lot currently playing, ideally we'd sign someone in January even on loan, but that's unlikely to happen.

Martinelly should be starting now, he's a real talent and makes things happen, Saka should be nowhere near the 1st team, if anything Pepe could use some game time under a different system to get played into form, he clerly has talent.

[Rockape]

I think themessiah has hit the nail firmly on the head!

(Depressing!)

[theHotHead]

A good manager will get the best out of most of our players and you can't tell me that getting the best out of most of our players wouldn't be good enough to compete for the top 4

[Pat Rice in Short Shorts]

A good manager will get the best out of most of our players and you can't tell me that getting the best out of most of our players wouldn't be good enough to compete for the top 4

Managers make a massive difference as do systems obviously. The number of examples of players coming in that thrived under Wenger that flopped is pretty high. Likewise players we bought who have floundered under Wenger is too long.

Sanchez was lost when he first arrived, as is Pepe.

[Santi]

Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.

[elkanofan]

Dear god, all this shite being thrown around.

14/15: Chelsea won the league.
15/16: Chelsea came 10th. Pretty much same squad (not going to check complete history).
16/17: Chelsea won the league.

Now tell me managers don’t matter and players who down tools suddenly aren’t good enough.

Difference is gigantic.

Mou had a huge meltdown, threw his squad under the bus and the entire squad rebelled against him.
Chelsea always had a top team. Their players could afford to down tools because they had the quality throughout the squad to go again, also they had WON the league previous season not finished 5th and have a team of winners, serious players who expect to win things NOW, not in 2-3 years while they take another selfie for instagram.

We have a team of douchebags and wussies. Arsenal do not have a good team in the first place to even get away with downing tools as we saw against Norwich.

Our players tried hard in that game but they really are that shit. You need to wake up Santi. Stop being so desperate, this is nothing like it was under Wenger.

You need to wake up and realized there is no easy way out of this. It maybe a long, long road back to even top 6 let alone top 4.

Our club is a total mess from top to bottom.