William Saliba (2)

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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby Phil71 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:19 am

Özim wrote:
Phil71 wrote:The schoolboy error Saliba made in the game against Rennes when he passed the ball out to a Rennes forward who went on to run on goal and score, or his awful performance against Brest where he got booked for a silly tackle whilst trying to recover from another error, then along with his defensive partner made two howlers that led to goals.

But hey yeah - he's the best thing since sliced bread if it suits the anti-Arteta agenda.


I think we established it was a minor error at worst, he’s been great for Nice as everyone knows.

Arteta is now even saying he wants to bring him back, so even your golden boy accepts he was wrong, strange how you can’t.


In case you may have missed it, he's on loan at Nice. That usually means it was always planned for him to come back - after the loan finishes. That's how it works you see. So of course Arteta will say he wants to bring him back. Because that's what happens when a loan finishes. The player comes back. Because it's a loan. Please let me know if I need to slow down so you can keep up.

And I have not said he shouldn't come back. All I've said is he's not the fantastic player you are making him out to be to suit your agenda. And neither is Holding the poor player you make him out to be - again to suit your agenda.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Apr 23, 2021 9:26 am

Holding is not good enough.
We keep pretending that sub-par players are somehow good. Our defence will never be solid consistently with Holding in it.
That said - we can't compare him to Saliba.
Different leagues. Totally different challenge.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 10:41 am

Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:
aniym wrote:Holding is having a good season if we keep in mind that he had a grand total of 38 PL matches under his belt coming into 20/21. This is his first season as a fully fit player since joining in 2016.

That said, he isn't on anyone's PL best XI, and Saliba likely has more top division experience despite being 6 years younger.

That Liam Brady was shit coz Arsenal finished 17th though ?


Liam Brady wasn’t a defender making errors costing goals every other game.

David O’Leary, Pat Rice & Peter Simpson were
But that blunt tool of yours will continue to bludgeon on a league position
Can you give me a breakdown of the errors in every other game where Holding made an error that lead to goals
Or is it just another negative figure of speech?
Seems a strange way to support a football team when we only have 70 odd summers on the earth


His mistakes are pretty well documented, ignoring that though the guy has been here for so many years and has never cut the mustard, you may be willing to give this guy endless time but I’m not, I’d rather have Saliba who is younger and is a superior talent IMO, regardless of what Arteta thinks.

You’re claim that Holding is having a better season than Saliba is easily refutable seeing as Holding never seems to get much praise whereas Saliba is almost every match.

Holding has had 10 back to back clean sheets in his Arsenal career plus 4 back to back clean sheets this season so how does that work as a mistake leading to a goal every other game
I am not in charge of who gets time at Arsenal
My job as a supporter is to do so where I can and criticism should come with facts and a heavy heart not thrown around like cheap confetti
You know as well as I do that if saliba was here and having the odd poor game as all footballers do you would be on here moaning and groaning
You can check peoples post history you know
And yours is a litany of misery
It’s the classic case of players better in absentea
Than the ones before your eyes
I have high hopes for saliba
But having watched both this season I believe Holding has been better
From my own eyes
Not what some are seeming to say
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:11 am

Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:
aniym wrote:Holding is having a good season if we keep in mind that he had a grand total of 38 PL matches under his belt coming into 20/21. This is his first season as a fully fit player since joining in 2016.

That said, he isn't on anyone's PL best XI, and Saliba likely has more top division experience despite being 6 years younger.

That Liam Brady was shit coz Arsenal finished 17th though ?


Liam Brady wasn’t a defender making errors costing goals every other game.

David O’Leary, Pat Rice & Peter Simpson were
But that blunt tool of yours will continue to bludgeon on a league position
Can you give me a breakdown of the errors in every other game where Holding made an error that lead to goals
Or is it just another negative figure of speech?
Seems a strange way to support a football team when we only have 70 odd summers on the earth


Liverpool, City, Villa....holding has had 3 or 4 occasions where he's made the same mistake and lost his man in the box which has resulted in a goal. He shouldn't be getting out jumped by 5ft 7 Sterling. It was the same sort of mistake in short succession where he wasn’t aware of the threat around him.

Yes
That’s back to back games Liverpool and city
But there were 2 clean sheets either side of the defeat to villa so where are all these back to back errors that lead to goals
I know you can’t be a little bit pregnant and he was at fault for sterling’s goal against City
I thought he had a good game aside from that in a game where Arteta left us under the cosh
I know in a 1-0 defeat that is not good enough
I want the absolute best at Arsenal
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:16 am

theHotHead wrote:The point here is, rob Holding has not amzed in performaces this season, he has not been a stand out, reports from France are that Saliba is putting in MoTM performances in games. Therefore the link we have is Holding is performing averagely and Saliba is performing brilliantly. differnt leagues, different teams, different circumstances.

What Holding does is basic beyond belief, he looks like any basic CB from any of the 4 divisions. Saliba looks like he has top class potential, he could become a Varane or Maldini. For that reason alone we should be playing him here in England, not in France where the football is different. Saliba is no more ready now than he was when we first bought him, all we have done is wasted 18-24 months of his Arsenal career.

Where are these man of the match performances
I have not seen them
I have not seen any this season from holding either
But he was better at West Brom and Fulham than I have seen from saliba
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:25 am

starmandb wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:
starmandb wrote:
Özim wrote:
starmandb wrote:
aniym wrote:Holding is having a good season if we keep in mind that he had a grand total of 38 PL matches under his belt coming into 20/21. This is his first season as a fully fit player since joining in 2016.

That said, he isn't on anyone's PL best XI, and Saliba likely has more top division experience despite being 6 years younger.

That Liam Brady was shit coz Arsenal finished 17th though ?


Liam Brady wasn’t a defender making errors costing goals every other game.

David O’Leary, Pat Rice & Peter Simpson were
But that blunt tool of yours will continue to bludgeon on a league position
Can you give me a breakdown of the errors in every other game where Holding made an error that lead to goals
Or is it just another negative figure of speech?
Seems a strange way to support a football team when we only have 70 odd summers on the earth


Liverpool, City, Villa....holding has had 3 or 4 occasions where he's made the same mistake and lost his man in the box which has resulted in a goal. He shouldn't be getting out jumped by 5ft 7 Sterling. It was the same sort of mistake in short succession where he wasn’t aware of the threat around him.

Yes
That’s back to back games Liverpool and city
But there were 2 clean sheets either side of the defeat to villa so where are all these back to back errors that lead to goals
I know you can’t be a little bit pregnant and he was at fault for sterling’s goal against City
I thought he had a good game aside from that in a game where Arteta left us under the cosh
I know in a 1-0 defeat that is not good enough
I want the absolute best at Arsenal


It's cool. I get your sentiment and support for the player. I don't have a major issue with Holding and don't want to round on him but the times he's shown a lack of awareness has been a concern for me. Every defender makes mistakes but this is one I hope he irons out. We can work around his lack of pace and not being the best with ball at his feet. Hopefully he continues to improve. I haven't watched Saliba but going off the reports, Zenith's feedback and some others that have watched him play, he's been the business. He's still an Arsenal player and hopefully we get to see him play for us in the near future.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:31 am

Of course
I hope to be at both their testimonials
Watching them parade replicas of all the trophies they have lifted at the club
There was a young lad named Adams once whose distribution and early bambi on ice performances did not suggest legend
In fact when Graham let keown go it was thought that he had let the wrong player leave
That worked out well in the end
I am not suggesting for one moment that with his age and experience that Holding doesn’t need to iron out faults in his game and if it can’t be remedied then he must go
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby Power n Glory » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:48 am

starmandb wrote:Of course
I hope to be at both their testimonials
Watching them parade replicas of all the trophies they have lifted at the club
There was a young lad named Adams once whose distribution and early bambi on ice performances did not suggest legend
In fact when Graham let keown go it was thought that he had let the wrong player leave
That worked out well in the end
I am not suggesting for one moment that with his age and experience that Holding doesn’t need to iron out faults in his game and if it can’t be remedied then he must go


Yep. No arguments with that.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby jayramfootball » Fri Apr 23, 2021 11:52 am

starmandb wrote:Of course
I hope to be at both their testimonials
Watching them parade replicas of all the trophies they have lifted at the club
There was a young lad named Adams once whose distribution and early bambi on ice performances did not suggest legend
In fact when Graham let keown go it was thought that he had let the wrong player leave
That worked out well in the end
I am not suggesting for one moment that with his age and experience that Holding doesn’t need to iron out faults in his game and if it can’t be remedied then he must go


Holding is 25.

At the same age, Adams was already a title winner and one of the best defenders and captains in the world.
Please don't compare these players.
You should know better.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Apr 23, 2021 12:57 pm

starmandb wrote:
theHotHead wrote:The point here is, rob Holding has not amzed in performaces this season, he has not been a stand out, reports from France are that Saliba is putting in MoTM performances in games. Therefore the link we have is Holding is performing averagely and Saliba is performing brilliantly. differnt leagues, different teams, different circumstances.

What Holding does is basic beyond belief, he looks like any basic CB from any of the 4 divisions. Saliba looks like he has top class potential, he could become a Varane or Maldini. For that reason alone we should be playing him here in England, not in France where the football is different. Saliba is no more ready now than he was when we first bought him, all we have done is wasted 18-24 months of his Arsenal career.

Where are these man of the match performances
I have not seen them
I have not seen any this season from holding either
But he was better at West Brom and Fulham than I have seen from saliba

https://dailycannon.com/2021/03/impressive-performance-saliba-stars-for-nice-again/

Player of the Month - https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-arteta-saliba-transfer-news-23454219

MotM vs Metz https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/william-saliba-nice-loan-arsenal-defender-ligue-1-highlights-836792

And if you want to look at a more detailed comparison look here:
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-william-salibas-stats-at-nice-to-arsenals-current-cb-options/
Saliba wins that 6-4 against Holding.
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 3:54 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
starmandb wrote:Of course
I hope to be at both their testimonials
Watching them parade replicas of all the trophies they have lifted at the club
There was a young lad named Adams once whose distribution and early bambi on ice performances did not suggest legend
In fact when Graham let keown go it was thought that he had let the wrong player leave
That worked out well in the end
I am not suggesting for one moment that with his age and experience that Holding doesn’t need to iron out faults in his game and if it can’t be remedied then he must go


Holding is 25.

At the same age, Adams was already a title winner and one of the best defenders and captains in the world.
Please don't compare these players.
You should know better.

And what did I go on to say?
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:07 pm

theHotHead wrote:
starmandb wrote:
theHotHead wrote:The point here is, rob Holding has not amzed in performaces this season, he has not been a stand out, reports from France are that Saliba is putting in MoTM performances in games. Therefore the link we have is Holding is performing averagely and Saliba is performing brilliantly. differnt leagues, different teams, different circumstances.

What Holding does is basic beyond belief, he looks like any basic CB from any of the 4 divisions. Saliba looks like he has top class potential, he could become a Varane or Maldini. For that reason alone we should be playing him here in England, not in France where the football is different. Saliba is no more ready now than he was when we first bought him, all we have done is wasted 18-24 months of his Arsenal career.

Where are these man of the match performances
I have not seen them
I have not seen any this season from holding either
But he was better at West Brom and Fulham than I have seen from saliba

https://dailycannon.com/2021/03/impressive-performance-saliba-stars-for-nice-again/

Player of the Month - https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/arsenal-arteta-saliba-transfer-news-23454219

MotM vs Metz https://inews.co.uk/sport/football/william-saliba-nice-loan-arsenal-defender-ligue-1-highlights-836792

And if you want to look at a more detailed comparison look here:
https://www.planetfootball.com/quick-reads/comparing-william-salibas-stats-at-nice-to-arsenals-current-cb-options/
Saliba wins that 6-4 against Holding.

Very pleased that saliba is doing well and getting plaudits
He is an Arsenal player
But he was Nice player of the month in January
I still maintain that Holding was better in January at Arsenal
Very good at West Brom
Good
Palace
Newcastle
Man Utd
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby theHotHead » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:11 pm

Don't get me wrong Starmandb, I am not knoocking Holding, he is the current Arsenal CB and naturally I don't want any of our players to have bad games. But looking at the future, looking at the fact Saliba was rated very highly by thje football world, looking at the fact we spent £24m on him, if his treatment by Arteta means we lose out on a potentially world class CB because we had Holding, I will be pissed !!!
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby starmandb » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:28 pm

I never want any of them out
I want them all as squad options
But obviously there is a logistical issue that the manager must address
Arteta must stand or fall on such decisions
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Re: William Saliba (on loan - OGC Nice)

Postby Phil71 » Fri Apr 23, 2021 4:29 pm

theHotHead wrote:Don't get me wrong Starmandb, I am not knoocking Holding, he is the current Arsenal CB and naturally I don't want any of our players to have bad games. But looking at the future, looking at the fact Saliba was rated very highly by thje football world, looking at the fact we spent £24m on him, if his treatment by Arteta means we lose out on a potentially world class CB because we had Holding, I will be pissed !!!


What treatment? Sending him out on loan?

If the manager and the club feel it's correct to send a player out on loan, nobody is better placed to make that judgement than them. Not one of us knows why, because we are not privilege to the circumstances.
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