jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:jayramfootball wrote:Özim wrote:I don’t think there’s any doubt this guy is a huge talent, he’s confirmed it by performing majestically everytime he’s played on loan.
There’s only one guy who doesn’t rate him, unfortunately for us it’s the clueless guy in charge, who then ironically goes and spends 50 million on a CB with one season in the PL under his belt.
Looks quite clumsy.
White looked good against Chelsea.
Very assured.
Hasn’t looked clumsy at all to me when I’ve seen him.
As for White, Chelsea beat us in his first game and we conceded 2.
White was not on the pitch for the first goal conceded and the second one was a Bellerin howler.
He played well , including two goal-saving blocks.
Most of all, though, White is our player and Saliba isn't.
Saliba is yet to make it to the PL level.
Are you going to whine about Saliba every time he gets through 90 mins for Marseille without f**king up?
Top CBS often improve their fellow defenders and make them calmer, that’s what happened with Dias and Van Dijk.
Actually Saliba is our player.
If I want to yes, just further evidence Arteta is out of his depth. I’ll also be expecting big things from White, no excuses as I said at that price he needs to be the next Van Dijk or Dias, if he makes mistakes or doesn’t perform I won’t mince my words.
With that price tag he can expect to be under a lot of scrutiny and pressure comes part and parcel with that.
Saliba is Marseille's player until the loan is over.
White is so far ahead of Saliba in his development it's really a non-starter to even compare the two.
An international PL defender vs a French kid who failed to make the grade to this point.
We own him, so he’s our player, you don’t own a player if you loan him, you borrow him.
That’s laughable, an international defender you say lol, one with two friendlies under his belt and one as a sub who also got excluded from the Euros despite players like Stones going lol. He’s not played a competitive game for England to date.
The French have far more talent in their squad hence it’s much harder to break in, they just have a poor manager, much like us sadly.
If Saliba was English he’s probably walk into the squad ahead of White who was just an afterthought anyway as you can tell from the fact no one knew much about him and he didn’t go to the Euros!
Saliba hasn’t failed to make the grade, he’s not been given a chance by Arteta who most Arsenal fans don’t rate anyway, he’s excelled in France, plus his former teammate Fofana has been better than White in the PL and was less highly rated.
Quiet categorically Saliba has failed to make the grade in the PL.
I know that because he hasn't played in the PL.
If he was so good he would have broken through - end of.
Arteta is stubborn, no doubt. He has his idea of who is needed and it seems hard to change his mind, but even he had to relent on Martinelli. Why? Because Martinelli made him.
Saliba did no such thing. He was given games - 6 of them in the U23s - he didn't look very good even at that level. hence he was loaned out to a weker league to get more experience.
Ben White - as we know - is a top PL defender already, player of the season for his club in the PL and broken into the full England international squad.
Saliba does not compare. He is not even getting picked regularly for the France U21 squad.
If Saliba has been so impressive why was he not even in the French U21 squad when they played Holland in May???
Why has he got 0 caps for the U21?
Why has he only got 1 cap for the French U20's in the last 2 years??
Jean-Clair Todibo has been picked 4 times for the U20's for France to Saliba's 1. How come???
Is Todibo better than Ben White, the full England international, too????
No
Again it’s because Arteta is clueless, this is the same guy wanting to give new contracts to Mustafi and Xhaka, the problem isn’t Saliba it’s Arteta, it’s nothing to do with talent it’s to do with having a manager that doesn’t know what he’s doing and is a poor judge of talent.
He hasn’t relented on Martinelli actually, he still gets limited game time, most would play the guy in most games, barely gets a look in with Arteta.
Please, Saliba has done absolutely fine, he’s been brilliant in France in actual competitive games not meaningless u23 games, your criteria are so badly flawed, why do you think one of the top French sides in France wanted to sign him, because he’s rubbish?
Thanks to Arteta Saliba spent 6 months with barely a game (which probably affected his chances of being picked), he was probably surprised not to even be in the 1st team squad after signing for 27 million, so on top of moving to a new country he got dumped into the u23s, no grear surprise he didn’t settle.
He also got player of the month at Nice in his short time there, outperforming Todibo.
Nope.
Todibo, another failed at the top level young French defender, has performed about the same as Saliba.
He has twice as many tackles per game (1.7 to 0.8) and has been significantly better at carrying the ball. They are equal on interceptions and Saliba has a very slight edge on headers won (1.9 to 1.7 per game) and blocks (0.8 to 0.5 per game)
Very little between them - if anything Todibo, who you'd never heard of (but is preferred to Saliba in the international youth set up), performed better.
Todibo tried his hand in a better league - Spain - failed and is back in France.
Same story for Saliba.
Todibo is just one example too.. there are others preferred to Saliba in the French national set up. More players you've never heard of.
Maybe both of them will come again, but right now neither is good enough to make the step up.
How about Fofana then who was regarded as not as good as Saliba but has outperformed White for Leicester?
Same age, same team etc.
Besides some players don’t settle in one league and a couple years later excel in another and become top class.
Thing is Saliba never got a chance thanks to Arteta, any other manager would have given him a go and yet Arteta preferred Mustafi, it’s a joke to be honest and no one is buying this Saliba isn’t good enough thing considering how he’s performed in France (so we’ll Marseille wanted him) and the fact he’s regarded as one of Europe’s best you CBS.
The French seem to rate Fofana higher than Saliba.
He's currently getting picked for the French U21s. Saliba is not.
He clearly isn't regarded as one of Europe's best young CBs... otherwise, he'd be getting game time for the French U21 team and breaking into the full squad. Jules Kounde is only 22 yet was in the Euro squad for France - already valued at 50m. Now there is an actual proper comparison to Ben White - similar ages and both broken into their national squads.
Also , Fofana has nothing to do with the decision making on Saliba. Saliba is judged on HIS efforts, not on one of his ex-teammates efforts.
The only people who seem to think Saliba is a world-beater are those looking to dig at Arsenal.
The rest of us see him as a highly touted 18-year old who hasn't quite developed and needs more time at a lower level to see if he can progress.
Again that’s down to game time, Salibas game time was restricted by Arteta, there’s no question Saliba was higher rated or we’d have signed Fofana instead.
He was until Arteta stunted his career by not even registering him (not even for the CC where we play the kids which shows Arteta has some sort of issue with him not to do with football).
The point about Fofana is how well he’s done and how Saliba was the higher rated of the two and has continued to excel when he has played.
You judge Saliba by Artetas criteria, I don’t because I know Arteta is a poor judge of talent and also just takes a dislike to certain players and also treats others favourably, a big no no in management in my book.
As I said the fact Arteta couldn’t even find a space for him in CC games where kids feature says a lot of whether this has anything to do with his football ability.
I am judging Saliba on reality - not on some fantasy land where he is perceived to be a world-beater based on nothing but some promise at 18.
I have already given you 4 young French CBs rated above him. There are more - who are getting picked ahead of him.
Across of all of Europe? Saliba doesn't even register in any top list as a top young CB... unless you want to make it the top 50 or more.
Saliba has a chance to prove himself in France now and get another chance later - he hasn't developed but there is still time for him.
Until then we needed a proven CB - and White fits that bill exactly. He's 3 years older and a full international.
Arteta is not going to take a chance on a kid based on how he was 'rated' at 18. Why would he - especially with fans like you who would absolutely slate him if he went with Saliba and it was a disaster. You'd be the first blaming him for picking an untried kid.
How is it reality when a clearly biased manager has decided not to play him due to what seem to be non football related issues?
As I said Arteta has stunted his career, he kept him not playing for 6 months which is ridiculous, you have this weird thing with Arteta where you’re blind to his obvious flaws.
Salibas situation is 100% down to Arteta and one of the many reasons this guy will fail and I want him out (there’s too many to list), you somehow continue to support Arteta and his decisions despite his two pathetic 8th places which for a club like Arsenal are equivalent to relegation for smaller clubs.
No one buys this though, we can see what’s happening, a failure of a manager is being given free reign to wreak havoc at Arsenal and wrecking everything’s touches.
This club has previous though, they let Wenger go on for far too long and it damaged the club hugely, now they’re doing the same with Arteta.
If anyone who knew what they were doing was in charge this guys bags would have been packed months ago, the fact they weren’t is a sad indictment of this club and where it’s heading, a place where people makes excuses for coming 8th twice, where success is coming in the top 6 and where actual success and winning trophies is belittled.
I would have never signed White, he’s not proven and not worth anywhere near 50 million but as usual this club likes to be different whilst wasting the resources it does have, basically our entire budge by the looks of it when actually what we needed most of all was a creative CM.
We should have kept Saliba and out that money into a create CM and then maybe bough a cheaper CB, you support these nonsense signings but those who recognise our problems realise it’s a waste of money for a club with bigger issues.
When Klopp came in he identified Liverpool’s need for a top CB so he signed one, then he realised the keeper was the weak point so he signed a top class one.
Our weak point was CM, Artera blows our budget on a CB when we already have 4/5 one of which has excelled
For 2 consecutive seasons in France, it’s a joke and just shows the level of incompetence.
You can sugar coat it anyway you like but those are the facts, so is the fact he’s also keeping hold of another favourite in Xhaka which is only going to hinder our progress even more!
