Liverpool does something critical that we don't

[Power n Glory]

It's nothing to do with getting PL players in, it's about having the right scouting contacts. Guendozi whilst rough around the edges is a perfect example.

We need to trust our youth now Reiss Nelson, Smith Rowe, Zech Medley and a few others need to be risked in the PL. Thats the only way we will find out if they are good enough. I would have put Nelson in ahead of Mikhi or Iwobi this season if he was not loaned out.

Maitland Niles needs to be put into central midfield to play his preferred position ahead of Xhaka, who in my opinion is possibly one of the worst midfield signings of the last 20 years. Rob Holding when fit needs to start alongside Sokratis and form a partnership in CD.

There is loads of potential at the club, with a few additions and hopefully not losing Laca to Barca. We won't win the league next year but at least we will have a stronger spine and we will need that to stop getting turned over away from home week in week out.

Agree with a lot of that. Funny thing is I remember my mate watching the Pre season games and saying he noticed a huge difference between how the youth played compared to games and halves where the seniors came in to play. The lack of pressing amongst the senior players was more noticeable.

And this is what has screwed Emery's plans big time.

He has abandoned the high press game plan he tried to use all season, because he doesn't have the players who are willing to do it. Willing to work their arses off for 90 minutes. We have too many players who say this is how I play, take it or leave it. They don't give a shit.

Wright mentioned the same thing in an article I read this morning. Whether it's down to ability or laziness, they shouldn't be allowed to get away with it.

[Phil71]

Takes major faith from the Board to trust a manager with that sort of money for a CB and keeper. Takes major faith for a manager to stake his reputation on those players for that sort of money. Klopp knew those were the missing pieces to what needed and was willing to spend a ridiculous amount on them. These weren't obvious World Class players either because they hadn't won major silverware before with bigger clubs.

There's little difference between £70m on two players or £70m on one player.

Our problem has always been Wenger's reluctance to spend big on single players. He looked at £60-70m price tags and thought he could get two players for that money.

That's the problem when you have a manager who also has a role related to the club's finances. It's a conflict of interest. The manager should be focusing completely on the footballing side of the club, and winning trophies. He should be identifying the players he wants and knocking on the CEO's door and asking for the money. Not looking at the ledgers and deciding for himself that it's not appropriate.

That has been our major problem. It's not his fault either. The CEO should be telling the manager to butt out of the financial affairs of the club.

[ag6789]

But that's how he kept us in CL for 20 yrs though. Smart bookkeeping kept us solvent, when we could get bankrupt chasing sugar daddy clubs.
The important factor for long term success is the core home grown players. They have feelings and loyalty. That's what big managers focused on earlier, and Klopp has partially followed that.
Other way round is to out buy everybody and kill all competitions..... need a super rich uncle.

[EliteKiller]

Our problem is player attitude, far to many players just turn up and believe their ability will be enough, Liverpool won because every player, world class or 3rd choice, puts in 100% effort ... they don't do it every game, and Liverpool have got away with some shite performances this season, but when it comes down to it no player believes he can just wander around the pitch ... how many times did a Barca player just stroll pass a walking back Liverpool player? answer not once ... and that's how it should be.

City players do it, Spuds players do it ... Chelsea and Utd not so much ... is that the manager's fault or club culture? The Don has one more season to try and turn it around ... but watching last night it's very clear what's needed.

[Phil71]

But that's how he kept us in CL for 20 yrs though. Smart bookkeeping kept us solvent, when we could get bankrupt chasing sugar daddy clubs.
The important factor for long term success is the core home grown players. They have feelings and loyalty. That's what big managers focused on earlier, and Klopp has partially followed that.
Other way round is to out buy everybody and kill all competitions..... need a super rich uncle.

Wenger kept faith for far too long in young players who did little more than show promise. Walcott, Chamberlain, Wilshere, Denilson, Gibbs... and so on.

And he didn't add enough quality.

As I said, it is not the right model if you ask the manager to provide footballing success whilst also juggling with the accounts. Firstly it's a conflict of interest, and secondly it takes up a part of his time that could be spent on the football side.

It shouldn't be up to the manager to worry about finances. It's the CEO and CFO's jobs to make sure we don't go bankrupt. It's ther managers job to harass the hell out of those guys for more money.

We came close in so many of those years. A bit more investment in the team might have won us another two or three titles.

f**k sake. When did football fans start taking an interest in the club's finances?

"Been a bit shit this year Fred."
"Yeah I know Burt - but the yield on the club's investments in offshore wind farming has doubled on previous years."

[CrimsonGunner11]

Takes major faith from the Board to trust a manager with that sort of money for a CB and keeper. Takes major faith for a manager to stake his reputation on those players for that sort of money. Klopp knew those were the missing pieces to what needed and was willing to spend a ridiculous amount on them. These weren't obvious World Class players either because they hadn't won major silverware before with bigger clubs.

There's little difference between £70m on two players or £70m on one player.

Our problem has always been Wenger's reluctance to spend big on single players. He looked at £60-70m price tags and thought he could get two players for that money.

That's the problem when you have a manager who also has a role related to the club's finances. It's a conflict of interest. The manager should be focusing completely on the footballing side of the club, and winning trophies. He should be identifying the players he wants and knocking on the CEO's door and asking for the money. Not looking at the ledgers and deciding for himself that it's not appropriate.

That has been our major problem. It's not his fault either. The CEO should be telling the manager to butt out of the financial affairs of the club.

It’s more our budget restricted him from spending that kind of amount on one player than Wenger being reluctant. If Wenger had City’s budget, do you really believe he would not have invested a substantial amount on a player? This is the man that always talks about buying only quality players. He is the man that has gone after players like Mbappe, Messi, Suarez, and Kante. This is the guy that shattered our transfer record on a single player the second the funds became available to him.

From what I’ve seen when managers are building a team, they start by plugging holes and then spending big on a player when their initial work and spending habits begin to bear fruit. Klopp did this in his early years at Liverpool for example by spreading the budget he had on signings like Grujic, Mane, Wijnaldum, Matip, Klavan, Manninger, and Karius all while not spending over 30 mil on a player. It was only once he had more money to work with, not only due to the respectable work on the pitch but the excellent work off it, that he could spend substantially on a single player. Wenger worked similarly while the stadium was getting paid off and it led to us getting the likes of Ozil and Sánchez, and with that the end of our own trophy drought.

Where we massively dropped the ball wrt achieving more imo was a combination of not turning over players efficiently and the clubs reluctance to improve or change its philosophy. When you look at the areas in question, part of the blame can be attributed to Wenger but certainly not the majority of it imho.

[Losmeister]

klopp showed his style/idea at dortmund... then bayern bought his best players.... its clear the football he wants to play....
its excitinh and super high energy... and he has success to back it... not the ULTIMATE usccess, yet... but you'd be on the long end of the odds to say he will not be able to to at some point.... hell Pep hasnt repeated since puyol was behind xavi iniesta and messi...

[Losmeister]

btw, heres an image... imagine sticking xhaka into pools starting xi.... it's be like a CG movie him moving at half speed of all the others... jajajaja

[StLGooner]

Maybe lets talk about pool when they actually win something first. Just a thought.

[thebigbangtheo]

Some very good and rational points have been made here. It suggests to me that maybe its easier to see things more clearly when you are not as emotionally involved and can engage your brain without influence from your heart. Similar to not having a police officer investigating a murder involving their family I suppose.

Ironic that the most progressive thread on an Arsenal forum is about Liverpool.

What has fueled my own preference for City to win the league this year beyond some exquisite football, is that they are going nowhere for the foreseeable future, and if they were to view this season as a failure, what chance they don't go spend a billion to get the likes of Mbappe, Greissman and Messi to reinforce their squad?

Liverpool winning the league would be the very epitome of awakening a sleeping giant, and one that the last thing they remember is Arsenal pissing on their chips.

Whilst they still have considerable financial clout to gloss over any tarnished prestige, the last thing we'd need is for Man Utd and Chelsea to stop impersonating Laurel and Hardy and put themselves back into the mix.

But the horror of all horrors would be if...Christ my hand is shaking...if 'they' were to follow Liverpool's lead, end up in the final....and win it! PLEASE AJAX, PLEASE!!!

2019-20 season worst case scenario COULD then see 5 formerly sleeping giants who are now as wide awake as a coke head, whilst we turn over in our sodden bed pulling the duvet up mumbling '..no Xhaka, no..'.

[Losmeister]

"Liverpool winning the league would be the very epitome of awakening a sleeping giant, and one that the last thing they remember is Arsenal pissing on their chips.

Whilst they still have considerable financial clout to gloss over any tarnished prestige, the last thing we'd need is for Man Utd and Chelsea to stop impersonating Laurel and Hardy and put themselves back into the mix."

the 3rd instant clasic in 2 days!!!

[Losmeister]

Maybe lets talk about pool when they actually win something first. Just a thought.

while they havent won anything, they've certainly played some GREAT football these last 2 years....seem on the verge of becoming a GREAT team....

easily as good as AFC 05-06, who, erm, didnt win anything...

[theHotHead]

I think wijnaldum is the prime example of what Klopp can do with his players.

I love Gini but he isnt a worldbeater by any means. But Klopp gets out everything he has in him.

This .. and the same can be said for most of the Liverpool team. Average .. but Klopp has got them playing like a team better than they are as individuals.

[theHotHead]

But that's how he kept us in CL for 20 yrs though. Smart bookkeeping kept us solvent, when we could get bankrupt chasing sugar daddy clubs.
The important factor for long term success is the core home grown players. They have feelings and loyalty. That's what big managers focused on earlier, and Klopp has partially followed that.
Other way round is to out buy everybody and kill all competitions..... need a super rich uncle.

Thats true to a point but he failed to move on once the financial constraints were lifted, he continued to shop at Lidl when he could've been shopping at Waitrose.

[FARM]

I agree with you that we need to but more players that play in the premiership. We rarely do.

There are some gems that we don't need to go abroad for and take a gamble, there are some very special gems waiting for us in Leicester, Wolves, Bournemouth, Watford and Brighton. We need to open our eyes and see it and stop looking abroad.