North London Powershift

[UFGN]

The ultimate prize in football in my view is the Club World Championship Trophy

Its not a view shared by many but thats my view. Its a competition that deserves more respect. To get into that competition you have to win the CL.

Its one of the biggest ambitions of my life to see the CWC paraded through Islington. My local club the greatest in the world.

f**k money. There are no valid excuses for this club to not be able to qualify and compete. Arsenal has always had to overcome richer more powerful clubs to win honours. The future will be no different.

[EliteKiller]

The ultimate prize in football in my view is the Club World Championship Trophy

Its not a view shared by many but thats my view. Its a competition that deserves more respect. To get into that competition you have to win the CL.

Its one of the biggest ambitions of my life to see the CWC paraded through Islington. My local club the greatest in the world.

f**k money. There are no valid excuses for this club to not be able to qualify and compete. Arsenal has always had to overcome richer more powerful clubs to win honours. The future will be no different.

Interesting take UFGN ... indeed the hardest to win is the CWC ... parading that would indeed be huge ...

I've got caught up with the minutia of the argument, off course the PowerShift is not all about money ... it's all about bragging rights and that means trophies and titles. Right now we hold them, let's hope that stays the same after next week, I'm confident they will feck up ...

As you rightly say it's all about qualifying and competing .... Thursday night football only matters if we win it, and we will .... then it's all about CL and how far we can get, last sixteen, last eight, semi, final, winners we can do it all just have faith.

Winning the CL is possible, winning the EPL is a much bigger ask .... however simply giving up and accepting EL and top six ... NEVER

Wonger had to go because he settled for top four, a few decent cup runs, and a healthy bank balance ... that was a mistake ... just can't see why some people think that carrying on with that philosophy will end in anything but regression ... each to their own I guess

[Nuggets]

The ultimate prize in football in my view is the Club World Championship Trophy

Its not a view shared by many but thats my view. Its a competition that deserves more respect. To get into that competition you have to win the CL.

Its one of the biggest ambitions of my life to see the CWC paraded through Islington. My local club the greatest in the world.

f**k money. There are no valid excuses for this club to not be able to qualify and compete. Arsenal has always had to overcome richer more powerful clubs to win honours. The future will be no different.

Interesting take UFGN ... indeed the hardest to win is the CWC ... parading that would indeed be huge ...

I've got caught up with the minutia of the argument, off course the PowerShift is not all about money ... it's all about bragging rights and that means trophies and titles. Right now we hold them, let's hope that stays the same after next week, I'm confident they will feck up ...

As you rightly say it's all about qualifying and competing .... Thursday night football only matters if we win it, and we will .... then it's all about CL and how far we can get, last sixteen, last eight, semi, final, winners we can do it all just have faith.

Winning the CL is possible, winning the EPL is a much bigger ask .... however simply giving up and accepting EL and top six ... NEVER

Wonger had to go because he settled for top four, a few decent cup runs, and a healthy bank balance ... that was a mistake ... just can't see why some people think that carrying on with that philosophy will end in anything but regression ... each to their own I guess

you got that right, lets hope the spuds fook up, don't want them n00bs winning the CL we will never hear the end of it.

[theHotHead]

You have to laugh - HotHead and jayramfootball get a room ...

You say CL for Arsenal isn't financially that much different than EL -- we get it
You say we don't need to earn as much money as our rivals because "we have enough" -- we get it
You say Swiss Ramble and UEFA figures are wrong -- we get it
You say players transferring don't care about CL football -- we get it

You say that not having CL, not having the same level of income, and not aiming at winning the big prizes is not an issue -- we get it

I say you're talking complete bollocks, others can make up their own minds ....

You were alright until you got to the bit about UEFA figures being wrong. How can they be when I have been using UEFA figures and quoting UEFA figures and referencing them.

Do you even read what you write???

[theHotHead]

The ultimate prize in football in my view is the Club World Championship Trophy

Its not a view shared by many but thats my view. Its a competition that deserves more respect. To get into that competition you have to win the CL.

Its one of the biggest ambitions of my life to see the CWC paraded through Islington. My local club the greatest in the world.

f**k money. There are no valid excuses for this club to not be able to qualify and compete. Arsenal has always had to overcome richer more powerful clubs to win honours. The future will be no different.

And that is ultimately the point. Tottenham's run to the CL final occurred with a teeny tiny net spend. When Leicester qualified even they got as far as Arsenal do, with a miniscule net spend and tiny budget.

Arsenal should have had a far better record in the CL, given our resources and given the amount of experience we have in the competition. If you could paraphrase a discussion that and that alone is one of the key points made by myself and Jayram.

The fact we have been poor generally in the CL has nothing to do with other clubs spending more than us or having more money available to them.

[EliteKiller]

But HotHead and Jayramfootball even if I accept your point (and I don't) your solution seems to be that we give up and accept EL football because we're shit and we won't make any more money in the CL ... just how can that be right?

HotHead I've said it before and will repeat it for you .... I am confident that the figures Swiss Rambler and UEFA give are accurate .... but look you don't agree and that's fine .... we don't need to argue just be patient.

Come next Month the true figures will be out ... let's see if the difference between the EPL teams in the CL, and the EPL teams in the EL, is nearer your 20m or my 70m ... you want to place a charity bet on it?

[Interest: waning]

The ultimate prize in football in my view is the Club World Championship Trophy

Its not a view shared by many but thats my view. Its a competition that deserves more respect. To get into that competition you have to win the CL.

Its one of the biggest ambitions of my life to see the CWC paraded through Islington. My local club the greatest in the world.

f**k money. There are no valid excuses for this club to not be able to qualify and compete. Arsenal has always had to overcome richer more powerful clubs to win honours. The future will be no different.

And that is ultimately the point. Tottenham's run to the CL final occurred with a teeny tiny net spend. When Leicester qualified even they got as far as Arsenal do, with a miniscule net spend and tiny budget.

Arsenal should have had a far better record in the CL, given our resources and given the amount of experience we have in the competition. If you could paraphrase a discussion that and that alone is one of the key points made by myself and Jayram.

The fact we have been poor generally in the CL has nothing to do with other clubs spending more than us or having more money available to them.

We have been an embarrassment since 2011! f**k the old regime, let's pray Sanllehi et al figure shit out otherwise we are done and Sh*t will take our spot on the world stage very soon.

Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

[theHotHead]

But HotHead and Jayramfootball even if I accept your point (and I don't) your solution seems to be that we give up and accept EL football because we're shit and we won't make any more money in the CL ... just how can that be right?

HotHead I've said it before and will repeat it for you .... I am confident that the figures Swiss Rambler and UEFA give are accurate .... but look you don't agree and that's fine .... we don't need to argue just be patient.

Come next Month the true figures will be out ... let's see if the difference between the EPL teams in the CL, and the EPL teams in the EL, is nearer your 20m or my 70m ... you want to place a charity bet on it?

2 points from me:

1) I never said give up on the CL, my point has been steadfast, that what Arsenal earn for our typical round 16 elimination in the CL is not much more than what we earn for EL runs to the semi final/final. So I don't agree that the CL for us is the be all and end all, not being in it wont break us.

2) I said Arsenal do not tend to get far in the CL so there is no point projecting maximum earnings for being in the CL if, with far better teams, we didn't get far often anyway. I said realistic figures need to be used. Lets assume your €110m is accurate for an English winner of the thing, you can't say Arsenal are losing out on that because we are not in the CL because our typical earnings are about €40-50m, thats the figure we are missing out on by not being in the CL. That's a shortfall of about €20-€30m by being in the EL.

I would rather be in the CL, of course but its not as important as people are making out. My view will change once we have the capacity to get further in the competition.

[ag6789]

CL is very important because it brings in considerably more money even for an mediocre run, and more importantly, makes us attractive for top players, who eventually can propel us to the top.
Our overall goal is always to be the dominant team in EU.

[jayramfootball]

But HotHead and Jayramfootball even if I accept your point (and I don't) your solution seems to be that we give up and accept EL football because we're shit and we won't make any more money in the CL ... just how can that be right?

HotHead I've said it before and will repeat it for you .... I am confident that the figures Swiss Rambler and UEFA give are accurate .... but look you don't agree and that's fine .... we don't need to argue just be patient.

Come next Month the true figures will be out ... let's see if the difference between the EPL teams in the CL, and the EPL teams in the EL, is nearer your 20m or my 70m ... you want to place a charity bet on it?

You keep hearing what you want to hear. It's like you keep making things up so you can argue with yourself. No one said we don't make more in the CL. No one said we're shit.

The point is that CL is not vital for us to progress - it ranks way way down the list on things we need to focus on as a team...and we're not shit, rather not at the level where we can compete to win the CL, mainly because of our really poor defence. These things should not be that hard to understand.

We don't have to wait for next year - we already have two of our own seasons to compare - one in the CL and one not in it. The revenue difference was £20m. It may become more, it may become less when comparing a EL final and CL last 16 place. You seem to be hung up on what other clubs will earn and are under the misguided notion that it means they will be moving away from us. I already gave you a prime example. Sissoko for £30m to improve Spurs significantly, £40m for Xhaka to take us backwards. Xhaka cost £10m more. Is he better than Sissoko? Take it to a macro level... Spurs caught us and passed us, whilst at the same time earning FAR less revenue and not being in the CL as much. We've probably earned 10 times as much as Spurs from CL money over the last 10-15 years. So how did they pass us in the league?????????? I'll tell you - because the CL money in and of itself was not a determining factor. If it was, we'd still be finishing above them. Obviously.

So I go back to the actual argument I am making, not the straw man you are creating. We dont need CL money to progress and we need to build our team by sepnding wisely on players that will improve us - plus I'd rather progress in the PL than have a focus on the CL. In actual fact one follows the other, but you seem to be panicking about not being in it next year and how much money Spurs are making. Football can't be much fun for you.

[EliteKiller]

You keep hearing what you want to hear. It's like you keep making things up so you can argue with yourself. No one said we don't make more in the CL. No one said we're shit.

The point is that CL is not vital for us to progress - it ranks way way down the list on things we need to focus on as a team...and we're not shit, rather not at the level where we can compete to win the CL, mainly because of our really poor defence. These things should not be that hard to understand.

We don't have to wait for next year - we already have two of our own seasons to compare - one in the CL and one not in it. The revenue difference was £20m. It may become more, it may become less when comparing a EL final and CL last 16 place. You seem to be hung up on what other clubs will earn and are under the misguided notion that it means they will be moving away from us. I already gave you a prime example. Sissoko for £30m to improve Spurs significantly, £40m for Xhaka to take us backwards. Xhaka cost £10m more. Is he better than Sissoko? Take it to a macro level... Spurs caught us and passed us, whilst at the same time earning FAR less revenue and not being in the CL as much. We've probably earned 10 times as much as Spurs from CL money over the last 10-15 years. So how did they pass us in the league?????????? I'll tell you - because the CL money in and of itself was not a determining factor. If it was, we'd still be finishing above them. Obviously.

So I go back to the actual argument I am making, not the straw man you are creating. We dont need CL money to progress and we need to build our team by sepnding wisely on players that will improve us - plus I'd rather progress in the PL than have a focus on the CL. In actual fact one follows the other, but you seem to be panicking about not being in it next year and how much money Spurs are making. Football can't be much fun for you.

We're going around in circles .... let's agree to disagree

You say - not at the level where we can compete to win the CL
I say - we're as good as our EPL top six rivals four of whom will pick up over 90m from the CL this year

You say - let's compare three years ago CL with this year EL
I say - let's compare this year's CL with this year's EL

You say - we don't need CL money
I say - we really do

So does the club - Venkatesham has indicated that CL qualification will free up an additional 60m in transfer funds

But hey let's stop going around in circles ... we will beat Chelsea, we will be in the CL, and we will make 50m more next year ... believe

[theHotHead]

You keep hearing what you want to hear. It's like you keep making things up so you can argue with yourself. No one said we don't make more in the CL. No one said we're shit.

The point is that CL is not vital for us to progress - it ranks way way down the list on things we need to focus on as a team...and we're not shit, rather not at the level where we can compete to win the CL, mainly because of our really poor defence. These things should not be that hard to understand.

We don't have to wait for next year - we already have two of our own seasons to compare - one in the CL and one not in it. The revenue difference was £20m. It may become more, it may become less when comparing a EL final and CL last 16 place. You seem to be hung up on what other clubs will earn and are under the misguided notion that it means they will be moving away from us. I already gave you a prime example. Sissoko for £30m to improve Spurs significantly, £40m for Xhaka to take us backwards. Xhaka cost £10m more. Is he better than Sissoko? Take it to a macro level... Spurs caught us and passed us, whilst at the same time earning FAR less revenue and not being in the CL as much. We've probably earned 10 times as much as Spurs from CL money over the last 10-15 years. So how did they pass us in the league?????????? I'll tell you - because the CL money in and of itself was not a determining factor. If it was, we'd still be finishing above them. Obviously.

So I go back to the actual argument I am making, not the straw man you are creating. We dont need CL money to progress and we need to build our team by sepnding wisely on players that will improve us - plus I'd rather progress in the PL than have a focus on the CL. In actual fact one follows the other, but you seem to be panicking about not being in it next year and how much money Spurs are making. Football can't be much fun for you.

We're going around in circles .... let's agree to disagree

You say - not at the level where we can compete to win the CL
I say - we're as good as our EPL top six rivals four of whom will pick up over 90m from the CL this year

You say - let's compare three years ago CL with this year EL
I say - let's compare this year's CL with this year's EL

You say - we don't need CL money
I say - we really do

So does the club - Venkatesham has indicated that CL qualification will free up an additional 60m in transfer funds

But hey let's stop going around in circles ... we will beat Chelsea, we will be in the CL, and we will make 50m more next year ... believe

Dude I am only going to make 1 point ! how can you say we are as good as our EPL rivals when our history in the CL with considerably better teams tells us that we will get nowhere near the 90m the other teams will get ??? How can you say that ??? This forum has been awash with criticism of the squad, how shit it is, not that I agree. I don't recall you sticking up for the quality of the current squad. But I have stuck up for it on numerous occasions. So if the squad is that poor how can you say with a straight and serious face that this possibly worst squad in recent Arsenal history is capable of matching the other teams with better squads, in a competition we have performed overwhelmingly poorly in ??

I don't get it. In my opinion we can't beat any top European team across 2 legs because we concede too many goals and cannot defend for shit, simple.

[PairyGrows]

The toughest part of winning the Club World Championship, for a European side, is winning the Champions League.

[UFGN]

The toughest part of winning the Club World Championship, for a European side, is winning the Champions League.

Yes, but there's a certain European arrogance aground the presumption that the best the rest of the world has to offer wont be difficult to beat

The big South American clubs should never be underestimated

[jayramfootball]

You keep hearing what you want to hear. It's like you keep making things up so you can argue with yourself. No one said we don't make more in the CL. No one said we're shit.

The point is that CL is not vital for us to progress - it ranks way way down the list on things we need to focus on as a team...and we're not shit, rather not at the level where we can compete to win the CL, mainly because of our really poor defence. These things should not be that hard to understand.

We don't have to wait for next year - we already have two of our own seasons to compare - one in the CL and one not in it. The revenue difference was £20m. It may become more, it may become less when comparing a EL final and CL last 16 place. You seem to be hung up on what other clubs will earn and are under the misguided notion that it means they will be moving away from us. I already gave you a prime example. Sissoko for £30m to improve Spurs significantly, £40m for Xhaka to take us backwards. Xhaka cost £10m more. Is he better than Sissoko? Take it to a macro level... Spurs caught us and passed us, whilst at the same time earning FAR less revenue and not being in the CL as much. We've probably earned 10 times as much as Spurs from CL money over the last 10-15 years. So how did they pass us in the league?????????? I'll tell you - because the CL money in and of itself was not a determining factor. If it was, we'd still be finishing above them. Obviously.

So I go back to the actual argument I am making, not the straw man you are creating. We dont need CL money to progress and we need to build our team by sepnding wisely on players that will improve us - plus I'd rather progress in the PL than have a focus on the CL. In actual fact one follows the other, but you seem to be panicking about not being in it next year and how much money Spurs are making. Football can't be much fun for you.

We're going around in circles .... let's agree to disagree

You say - not at the level where we can compete to win the CL
I say - we're as good as our EPL top six rivals four of whom will pick up over 90m from the CL this year

There's your disconnect with reality, which is the root cause of your misguided focus on prize money. Quite clearly we're not as good as all our top 6 rivals.
Utd, we're on a par.
Chelsea, about on par, Chelsea more solid defensively and have Hazard, who on his day makes a significant difference.
Spurs have passed us - without the amount of CL money we have had like I said.
City and Liverpool are much much better than us. How you can even say we're on a par with these 2 clubs defies belief.