Arsenal's Financial Situation

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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby UFGN » Sun Jan 13, 2019 1:59 pm

Santi wrote:No, was in response to UFGN. They can't just make huge reserves appear out of thin air for the reports.


They kinda can, as long as they own the money somewhere within the business or parent company
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby BexleyGooner » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Sorry, but actually lol’d at the mention of financial crisis. Some fans are deluded or very entitled if they think this is a financial crisis. It’s nothing of the sort. It’s a sticky patch brought on by lower income and bad management, but it’s nowhere near a crisis.

Once the deadwood start getting cleared, the new sponsorships come in and the wage cap rises, things will start rolling again. A financial crisis is something that imo, threatens the mere existence of a football club. I’m sure this club will still be here long after we’re all dead and buried.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Highbury Hillbilly » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:04 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:Despite predicted loses, the club still (unless SK has taken it away) has cash reserves of nearly £300m. The issue (perceived) is that the club is at the Premier league FFP wage cap, and can't recruit anyone new until they have freed up some of that.

Dead wood needs to be got rid of, so too do overpaid good players.



https://www.arsenal.com/sites/default/f ... %20Nov.pdf

Bottom number on pg 15:
£160m in cash as of Nov 30, 2017

Pg.16
Long term debt £178m
(could be bonds coming due in 18 months or 10 years, doesn't say)
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Santi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:09 pm

UFGN wrote:
Santi wrote:No, was in response to UFGN. They can't just make huge reserves appear out of thin air for the reports.


They kinda can, as long as they own the money somewhere within the business or parent company


Well exactly, if you wanted to put 30 grand in your bank right now and show it off to someone, you'd have to get it from somewhere. Rapid fire sale of assets, change down the back of the sofa or consolidate funds you already have into 1 account.

Either way you have to actually obtain that money and the auditors would see exactly how it was obtained and where it came from, that's their job.

Arsenal must have a big f***ing couch.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby UFGN » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:14 pm

Santi wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Santi wrote:No, was in response to UFGN. They can't just make huge reserves appear out of thin air for the reports.


They kinda can, as long as they own the money somewhere within the business or parent company


Well exactly, if you wanted to put 30 grand in your bank right now and show it off to someone, you'd have to get it from somewhere. Rapid fire sale of assets, change down the back of the sofa or consolidate funds you already have into 1 account.

Either way you have to actually obtain that money and the auditors would see exactly how it was obtained and where it came from, that's their job.

Arsenal must have a big f***ing couch.


Or a big f***ing parent company or owner with such companies

Oh but wait it does doesn't it

That money could be in Stan's back pocket, up his nose or spent on one of his other teams by now, and you wouldn't be any the wiser
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Santi » Sun Jan 13, 2019 2:41 pm

Hopefully up his nose, k*** might croak quicker that way.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby CynicalGooner » Sun Jan 13, 2019 4:03 pm

The wage cap isn't an issue. The issue is we are paying mediocre players too much. Our wage bill is HUGE. I for one don't particularly want to see the the extra revenue we will make be used to further inflate it
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:03 pm

BexleyGooner wrote:Sorry, but actually lol’d at the mention of financial crisis. Some fans are deluded or very entitled if they think this is a financial crisis. It’s nothing of the sort. It’s a sticky patch brought on by lower income and bad management, but it’s nowhere near a crisis.

Once the deadwood start getting cleared, the new sponsorships come in and the wage cap rises, things will start rolling again. A financial crisis is something that imo, threatens the mere existence of a football club. I’m sure this club will still be here long after we’re all dead and buried.


How much are we realistically going to get from clearing out the deadwood? Realistically £10-20m, which is a pittance. Also, our wage structure will skew the wage demands of the incoming players, meaning we won't be able to cut the wage bill by a lot. If anything, the wage bill may grow still.

Also, the new sponsorship deals won't bring in enough to make a difference. The only new sponsorship deal I'm aware of is the Adidas deal, and that's going to bring in about £30m more. Even if we spend it all (which is unlikely), I'm afraid we won't have a huge transfer budget.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Waterfordgooner » Sun Jan 13, 2019 5:11 pm

I think we are only being used as collateral for Kroenke to build his 3 billion stadium in LA for the Rams- we are a cash cow and he will only use as much as is needed to keep this going. Granted we have a lot of deadwood to shift but that is going to take a few years to sort sothe pain will continue
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Angelito » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:20 pm

What financial crisis?

Leaving Ozil on the bench?

Playing 8-9 defensive players?

Hiring a Spanish David Moyes?

Gooners, tsk, tsk.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Marsbar100 » Sun Jan 13, 2019 6:22 pm

I don't like what I have seen but tbf no way Moyes would have the calibre to manage a team outside of Barca or Madrid to 3rd in la Liga or win 3 ELs.

He must have something about him to have achieved them things
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Sun Jan 13, 2019 7:02 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
PairyGrows wrote:I'm not convinced we have cash reserves of £300m lying around somewhere. Where's this coming from? None of the financial figures I've seen indicate anything remotely like this. Granted, we won't know anything concrete about Arsenal's finances anymore since Kroenke wants to disclose as little as possible as late as possible.

Getting rid of our best players is simply not a tenable solution. If we get rid of our best players, we'll have to replace them with inferior players, further lowering the competitiveness of the squad. Unless our recruitment is perfect (a la Leicester), our squad is going to be less competitive and thus less likely to challenge the other top six sides.



It's all there in previous financial reports if you care to go through them. Unless SK has taken cash out of the club, it's still there, as there have not been any operating loses yet...


Except that those figures are often inflated due to the season ticket renewals. Also, not all that money is available for transfers and wages. Furthermore, if AST's estimates are correct, we'll make enormous losses this season, which is bound to affect the cash reserves.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby EliteKiller » Sun Jan 13, 2019 10:50 pm

PairyGrows wrote:How much are we realistically going to get from clearing out the deadwood? Realistically £10-20m, which is a pittance. Also, our wage structure will skew the wage demands of the incoming players, meaning we won't be able to cut the wage bill by a lot. If anything, the wage bill may grow still.

Also, the new sponsorship deals won't bring in enough to make a difference. The only new sponsorship deal I'm aware of is the Adidas deal, and that's going to bring in about £30m more. Even if we spend it all (which is unlikely), I'm afraid we won't have a huge transfer budget.


Not sure how often this needs to be repeated ... the issue isn't transfer money, we're worth close to 2 billion we can always find the money, The issue is all about salaries, Right now we are spending the maximum on salaries currently allowed by the EPL under the 'salary control' imposed by the EPL in 2016 for a three season period. Go Google EPL Salary Control/Cap it's all public knowledge.

This news item is now very dated but it explains why the wages cap has been hampering us from the days of Ozil and Sanchez.

https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/transfers/arsenal-transfer-news-summer-sell-out-tie-alexis-sanchez-mesut-ozil-new-contract-a7803741.html

The good news is that as yet the EPL have not agreed salary controls for next season, this might allow us to spend the transfer money we have as salaries will no longer restrict new signings. It should be noted that lie any business we need to remain viable, we don't want to 'do a Leeds' so under Kroenke the self-financing model won't change.

Right now it's still all about getting players that don't play, or simply aren't good enough, off the wages budget ....
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby PairyGrows » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:20 am

I can't help feeling there are a few misuderstandings about what I'm trying to argue. I'll try to address them to the best of my ability.

Offloading the deadwood won't guarantee a better wage structure. The incoming players will base their wage demands on the wages we're currently paying, which likely means we'll have to pay over the odds a bit. Also, even if the wage cap won't prove a hindrance, we'll still have to make a profit.

Also, it's incredibly difficult to grow the revenue in the short term. Broadcast revenue is less lucrative for the Europa League, and commercial income is inflexible. The only way to make more money quickly is to crank up the ticket prices. For obvious reasons, that option is out of question.

Even though we're worth £2bn, the reality is that our self-sufficient model (which won't change according to the club) coupled with plummeting revenues and soaring wages mean we're in serious trouble.
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Re: Arsenal's Financial Crisis

Postby Zedie » Mon Jan 14, 2019 12:54 am

PairyGrows wrote:I can't help feeling there are a few misuderstandings about what I'm trying to argue. I'll try to address them to the best of my ability.

Offloading the deadwood won't guarantee a better wage structure. The incoming players will base their wage demands on the wages we're currently paying, which likely means we'll have to pay over the odds a bit. Also, even if the wage cap won't prove a hindrance, we'll still have to make a profit.

Also, it's incredibly difficult to grow the revenue in the short term. Broadcast revenue is less lucrative for the Europa League, and commercial income is inflexible. The only way to make more money quickly is to crank up the ticket prices. For obvious reasons, that option is out of question.

Even though we're worth £2bn, the reality is that our self-sufficient model (which won't change according to the club) coupled with plummeting revenues and soaring wages mean we're in serious trouble.


Release ramsey - 120k
Sell ozil at a huge loss - 350k
Elneny - 60k?
Jenkinson - 50k?
Cech - 100k ?
Lichtenstiener 70k ?
Monreal 70k?

Replace these lot with some up and coming / a few established performers and we'll be fine.

We just need to endure the 2nd half of this season to do it.

All of our competitors have gone through this in some form over the last 3 years or more, from various starting points. We arent that far off but we really need a decent investment in the summer.
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