Mattéo Guendouzi (on loan - Hertha BSC)

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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby ag6789 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:06 pm

Elneny is a much better bait than Douzi. Keeping things tidy at the back and doesn't veer off from position. Douzi's main problem isn't his arrogance or petulance, it is his inability to follow instructions and learn quickly. He'll be struggling everywhere if he cannot organize his game.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby VCC » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:07 pm

Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:
Pat Rice in Short Shorts wrote:
UFGN wrote:Can someone remind me what did he actually do?

In my mind hes a very good player. If he has to go he has to go. But I once predicted he'll be a huge player one day worth a fortune, and I stand by that


Besides throttling what's his face in Brighton he was a unruly and rude in Dubai. Then he was brought into the head masters office and acted stroppy like DG might have in fourth form. :lol:


Throttling oppo is fine by me

But thuggish behaviour off the pitch + rudeness to the manager, even if it was Emery, is a no no.

Has to go.



It was Artea actually. I agree with you on him standing up for Leno and also that he certainly has no future at the club.

My guess is that Arteta made the blanket statement that everyone had a clean sheet going forward as a message to him and Ozil, but that means buck up, play the system, get your act together or all bets are off.

It was the way he stood up for Leno as Arteta stated do that shit when it matters on the pitch, not after
And the dressing room stuff was his ego bragging about money to opposition players taunting them hardly the class Arsenal should aim for, when he was taken to task by Arteta he threw his toys.
The young man needs to grow up, and it needs to be at another club.
Still need a pic of guen and luiz, DR Suess thing 1 and thing2 look alike
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Angelito » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:14 pm

While I may be entirely off the mark here, Mikel's approach in player-management might not work with everyone. It obviously does with our existing crop of players.

I cannot help but think that it would flop against world class players. Pires was allegedly someone who didn't train hard, nor was he efficient in tracking back. Vieira would get mad at Pires for leaving gaping holes, but then Pires was magic going forward, so it all evened out.

Obviously, not talking about the 'Douzi situation solely. The gritty training backed by a meticulous approach during the game, and his non-negotiables, might not be for everyone, especially top-tier talents who bring their own idiosyncrasies with them.

Wenger was a lot more laxed there. Even today, Messi just walks around and Ron is only active in the final third. Sure, those two are something else, but surely, not every player is a marathon runner in training. Hazard, it's said, isn't a hard-worker like KdB is. He had his issues with an authoritarian like Jose for the same reasons. Cesc wasn't someone who'd be all Keown, whether on the pitch or in training.

Someone like Alexis would totally buy into Mikel's ideology. Someone like Bale? He wouldn't.

Mikel is of course an amazing coach already. Does he have the same player-management acumen of a Wenger or a Ferguson? Of course not. Giggs stated that SAF was always fatherly with CR7. He wasn't the same with other players. I think it's about knowing what works best on an individual basis.

At Arsenal, Wenger mollycoddled Cesc and Ozil. Ramsey went so far to state that Ozil was the teacher's pet under Wenger. Some react to tough love like Drogba and Terry did at Chelsea under Mourinho. Some are different. Like Pires, Cesc, Ozil, etc., who are motivated by Theory Y than Theory X (in management).

Wenger adopted Theory Y/Z, it would appear—inspiration, flexibility, empathy, philosophical creativity, love, transcendence. In contrast, Pep is a Theory X manager—direct supervision, meticulousness, harsh criticism, rule-following, etc. Klopp is more Theory Y—inspirational but ordered, result-oriented yet humane, growth and progress without stern rules.

Someone like Guendouzi, he seems to need empathy, guidance, and love. Now, if Guendouzi is as radical as Balotelli was, nothing will work. Someone like Xhaka, they are all into structure and results. Mikel's approach is perfect for Xhaka and almost everyone in this squad. But the only generational talent he's managed here is Ozil. It doesn't seem to be working.

Would those non-negotiables work with Hazard or a Pires? I don't know. It will work with less-eccentric talents though. And that's where 90% of professional footballers are.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Sims » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:21 pm

all he wants is the players to not act like c**** during training and during matches

its not that revolutionary or that big of an ask
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Callum » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:31 pm

Sims wrote:all he wants is the players to not act like c**** during training and during matches

its not that revolutionary or that big of an ask

This. Ultimately, Arteta's "non-negotiables" has clearly had some major buy-in from the majority of the squad, and the results are there. He shouldn't compromise for one or two players, let alone one who still has much to prove.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby UFGN » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:38 pm

Angelito wrote:While I may be entirely off the mark here, Mikel's approach in player-management might not work with everyone. It obviously does with our existing crop of players.

I cannot help but think that it would flop against world class players. Pires was allegedly someone who didn't train hard, nor was he efficient in tracking back. Vieira would get mad at Pires for leaving gaping holes, but then Pires was magic going forward, so it all evened out.

Obviously, not talking about the 'Douzi situation solely. The gritty training backed by a meticulous approach during the game, and his non-negotiables, might not be for everyone, especially top-tier talents who bring their own idiosyncrasies with them.

Wenger was a lot more laxed there. Even today, Messi just walks around and Ron is only active in the final third. Sure, those two are something else, but surely, not every player is a marathon runner in training. Hazard, it's said, isn't a hard-worker like KdB is. He had his issues with an authoritarian like Jose for the same reasons. Cesc wasn't someone who'd be all Keown, whether on the pitch or in training.

Someone like Alexis would totally buy into Mikel's ideology. Someone like Bale? He wouldn't.

Mikel is of course an amazing coach already. Does he have the same player-management acumen of a Wenger or a Ferguson? Of course not. Giggs stated that SAF was always fatherly with CR7. He wasn't the same with other players. I think it's about knowing what works best on an individual basis.

At Arsenal, Wenger mollycoddled Cesc and Ozil. Ramsey went so far to state that Ozil was the teacher's pet under Wenger. Some react to tough love like Drogba and Terry did at Chelsea under Mourinho. Some are different. Like Pires, Cesc, Ozil, etc., who are motivated by Theory Y than Theory X (in management).

Wenger adopted Theory Y/Z, it would appear—inspiration, flexibility, empathy, philosophical creativity, love, transcendence. In contrast, Pep is a Theory X manager—direct supervision, meticulousness, harsh criticism, rule-following, etc. Klopp is more Theory Y—inspirational but ordered, result-oriented yet humane, growth and progress without stern rules.

Someone like Guendouzi, he seems to need empathy, guidance, and love. Now, if Guendouzi is as radical as Balotelli was, nothing will work. Someone like Xhaka, they are all into structure and results. Mikel's approach is perfect for Xhaka and almost everyone in this squad. But the only generational talent he's managed here is Ozil. It doesn't seem to be working.

Would those non-negotiables work with Hazard or a Pires? I don't know. It will work with less-eccentric talents though. And that's where 90% of professional footballers are.



Arteta has experience of dealing with top talent as a coach and has experience of watching such players train throughout his career.

If he does alienate some divas with his approach, that news will soon spread round football circles and the Balotellis of this world wont want to sign for us. How sad.

It might mean that occasionally we miss out on a Berbatov type who strolls about like hes at the beach but scores lots of goals...... but I'd rather that than miss out on a fierce winner who doesnt want to sign for us because the club has a lazy culture
Last edited by UFGN on Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby gooney » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:39 pm

Angelito wrote:While I may be entirely off the mark here, Mikel's approach in player-management might not work with everyone. It obviously does with our existing crop of players.

I cannot help but think that it would flop against world class players. Pires was allegedly someone who didn't train hard, nor was he efficient in tracking back. Vieira would get mad at Pires for leaving gaping holes, but then Pires was magic going forward, so it all evened out.

Obviously, not talking about the 'Douzi situation solely. The gritty training backed by a meticulous approach during the game, and his non-negotiables, might not be for everyone, especially top-tier talents who bring their own idiosyncrasies with them.

Wenger was a lot more laxed there. Even today, Messi just walks around and Ron is only active in the final third. Sure, those two are something else, but surely, not every player is a marathon runner in training. Hazard, it's said, isn't a hard-worker like KdB is. He had his issues with an authoritarian like Jose for the same reasons. Cesc wasn't someone who'd be all Keown, whether on the pitch or in training.

Someone like Alexis would totally buy into Mikel's ideology. Someone like Bale? He wouldn't.

Mikel is of course an amazing coach already. Does he have the same player-management acumen of a Wenger or a Ferguson? Of course not. Giggs stated that SAF was always fatherly with CR7. He wasn't the same with other players. I think it's about knowing what works best on an individual basis.

At Arsenal, Wenger mollycoddled Cesc and Ozil. Ramsey went so far to state that Ozil was the teacher's pet under Wenger. Some react to tough love like Drogba and Terry did at Chelsea under Mourinho. Some are different. Like Pires, Cesc, Ozil, etc., who are motivated by Theory Y than Theory X (in management).

Wenger adopted Theory Y/Z, it would appear—inspiration, flexibility, empathy, philosophical creativity, love, transcendence. In contrast, Pep is a Theory X manager—direct supervision, meticulousness, harsh criticism, rule-following, etc. Klopp is more Theory Y—inspirational but ordered, result-oriented yet humane, growth and progress without stern rules.

Someone like Guendouzi, he seems to need empathy, guidance, and love. Now, if Guendouzi is as radical as Balotelli was, nothing will work. Someone like Xhaka, they are all into structure and results. Mikel's approach is perfect for Xhaka and almost everyone in this squad. But the only generational talent he's managed here is Ozil. It doesn't seem to be working.

Would those non-negotiables work with Hazard or a Pires? I don't know. It will work with less-eccentric talents though. And that's where 90% of professional footballers are.


No manager treats players equally. You think if Auba was less than 100% in training he would be benched? But no manager likes to be questioned by an average player. Look at xhaka, he was public nr 1 when arteta came and arteta went out of his way for him
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby ag6789 » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:49 pm

Arteta is just beginning his career as a coach whereas Wenger, when Cesc, Ozil came along was already a father figure ( more like grandpa). Thoroughly established in the football world.
Arteta has a long way to go, besides he has to be a little tough to straighten out the slackness that has seeped into Arsenal dressing room after long reign of Wenger. It seemed more like a luxury resort during the late Wenger era, when Wilshere and company could get away slouching around.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby VCC » Mon Sep 21, 2020 7:51 pm

If a combination of guen and EMI fee helps us fill our midfeild void that's good bussiness imo
Only hope these sales dont go into the owners pocket
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby theHotHead » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:44 am

I'm a big fan of Ozil, but if Arteta thinks we are better off without him playing then I will not complain - providing we are winning games. If Arteta thinks Guendouzi needs to be shipped out then, again, you won't get any complaints from me. If making big decisions turns into big mistakes and we start losing then I will be the first to hold Arteta accountable.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Sims » Tue Sep 22, 2020 9:49 am

So if we lose a game it’s cos Ozil ain’t playing?

The same Mesut Ozil who is now rubbish and adds nothing to this team?
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Dejan » Tue Sep 22, 2020 10:14 am

Sims wrote:So if we lose a game it’s cos Ozil ain’t playing?

The same Mesut Ozil who is now rubbish and adds nothing to this team?
I think last seasons end sprint including victories over the big four proved that we are better without ozil as a team

A lose here of there doesnt change that imo

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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby Nuggets » Tue Sep 22, 2020 1:12 pm

If he is not wanted he just needs to be gone free up some money for other targets.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby aniym » Tue Sep 22, 2020 2:57 pm

Stuck with this bum for another season it seems.

Even Sanogoal got loan deals elsewhere. This guy is toxic waste, clubs are steering clear.
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Re: Mattéo Guendouzi (29)

Postby themessiah » Tue Sep 22, 2020 4:52 pm

You would think the lad was young prime Fabregas the way our fans talk about him
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