Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:03 am

Fran Solo wrote:I think it's not only about reaching the last four. England for once look like a solid united team. They have better players in the past, but the chemistry just never there. This time England looks much better as a team. Maybe because of the Spurs connection or Southgate's seemingly likable persona or whatever.
The only thing that I don't like about this England team is actually not the team themselves, but the media. They have really overhyped England national team. The bias were ridiculous. Just watch the player rating in the quarter final or the semi. Kane and Sterling still get 6.5-7 from some of the media. Even England supporters in this forum said that they were not playing well in the last two games. Some of the journalists (and pundits) just don't know the difference between a reporter and a supporter.

I can agree with this, although England squads always seem to be together anyway to be fair I think the fact there were no prima donna superstars there really helped and it was a young and fearless squad. Certainly a good platform to kick on from. But I think it lacks real quality at the highest level, the lack of creativity was at times embarrassing.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:14 am

Ach wrote:that was easy?

Facing teams that topped the groups containing Germany and argentina?

Haven't seen much of Colombia have you?

Ok then. Didn't realise you expected England to win the World Cup going in to the tournament. High expectations. Fair enough.

Mate I can't work out if you are being serious or not. GERMANY WERE SHIT ! ARGENTINA WERE SHIT ! Topping the group being the second best team in the group is not some remarkable achievement. Arsenal came second in the league ! But that was the year Leicester won and all the top teams were shite. We came second because everyone was shite - or do you believe we did well to finish second that season???

Germany came bottom of their group FFS. Croatia obliterated a group containing a shit Argentina that scraped through to qualify, Nigeria who have never done anything of note EVER at a World Cup and those heavyweight players on the world scene - Iceland !!

At this point I think you are just on the wind up.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby lol » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:15 am

Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.


So performing up to expectation is shit to you?

Beating teams we should be beating is decent, but insisting on calling that great is Wenger-like delusion.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:21 am

Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.

Be happy we won the FA Cup - absolutely !!! But you wouldn't go round saying we were amazing or we performed fantastically. We were dire when we won the FA Cup against Hull !! We didn't overachieve or over perform, we were expected to win and we did. Great come back in the end.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Santi » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:38 am

Tbh there's no way to prove we wouldn't have beaten Argentina or Germany had we faced them. You could say we only lost 2-1 in ET to Croatia who in turn beat Argentina 3-0 so it's likely we'd have beaten Argentina 1 or 2-0.

Point is, you just don't know and we got to the semi no matter the route. We did well but ran out of gas when it should've been Croatia running out of gas, play them a round earlier and maybe we win.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Angelito » Fri Jul 13, 2018 9:56 am

Fran Solo wrote:I think it's not only about reaching the last four. England for once look like a solid united team. They have better players in the past, but the chemistry just never there. This time England looks much better as a team. Maybe because of the Spurs connection or Southgate's seemingly likable persona or whatever.
The only thing that I don't like about this England team is actually not the team themselves, but the media. They have really overhyped England national team. The bias were ridiculous. Just watch the player rating in the quarter final or the semi. Kane and Sterling still get 6.5-7 from some of the media. Even England supporters in this forum said that they were not playing well in the last two games. Some of the journalists (and pundits) just don't know the difference between a reporter and a supporter.


^

Aside from the Spurs prevalence, these guys are really humble and Southgate seems like such a likable guy. England did play as a team as opposed to the disjointed lot with egos that they have been for the past 18-20 years. You just have to hear Gerrard and Ferdinand speak about that era to know.

These pundits and journalists never seem to learn, tbh. By going over the top, with those sensational headlines, you're only rallying other teams and supporters against you. As Modric said in his post-match interview, those remarks fired up Croatia more and they went out there to prove a point.

Just be grounded. You can celebrate of course. As fans, you should but once you are a journalist or a pundit, you have a responsibility towards audiences and you have to at least pretend to be neutral in front of the cameras or when writing journalistic pieces.

Instead, everyone was going beserk, "It's coming home... It's coming home." :shifty:
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Ach » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:27 am

lol wrote:
Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.


So performing up to expectation is shit to you?

Beating teams we should be beating is decent, but insisting on calling that great is Wenger-like delusion.

Getting to the world cup semi final is above expectations. Unless you thought they would which is fair enough. You have more faith in them than I did
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby lol » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:28 am

The greatest disappointment of our campaign is still the English Media. Unnecessarily negativity in the past and foolishly positive this time round.

The team did a decent job. Nothing fantastic, but also no shame in losing to Croatia
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby lol » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:33 am

Ach wrote:
lol wrote:
Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.


So performing up to expectation is shit to you?

Beating teams we should be beating is decent, but insisting on calling that great is Wenger-like delusion.

Getting to the world cup semi final is above expectations. Unless you thought they would which is fair enough. You have more faith in them than I did


Yes you definitely have less faith in them than I did by not expecting them to overcome Tunisia, Panama, Colombia and Sweden
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Ach » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:38 am

lol wrote:
Ach wrote:
lol wrote:
Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.


So performing up to expectation is shit to you?

Beating teams we should be beating is decent, but insisting on calling that great is Wenger-like delusion.

Getting to the world cup semi final is above expectations. Unless you thought they would which is fair enough. You have more faith in them than I did


Yes you definitely have less faith in them than I did by not expecting them to overcome Tunisia, Panama, Colombia and Sweden

Before the tournament I'd have taken a semi final place. No idea who we'd face other than the group's and I didn't care then. Don't care now. You guys seem to think we should forfeit games cos it's too easy. Fortunately football doesn't work that way. We're England ffs. Anyone who thinks Colombia and Sweden are easy for us has never seen us play ever.

Our record v Sweden is horrific. But apparently we should beat them easily. We did. Cos we were that damn good. A Sweden side that topped a group that had the world champions. But they supposed to be easy. Ok then
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Angelito » Fri Jul 13, 2018 10:39 am

Btw, HotHead, I get what you're saying, however, think about it this way.

If Arsenal won the UCL, by avoiding Barca, Real, Bayern, Atleti, and Juve through some incredible anomaly, would we care? On top of that, if we ended up beating Partizan Belgrade in the final, who'd care?

We'd still have lucked out. And we may not have won it if we had faced the big boys, but as fans we would surely lose our shit. And we'd have overachieved still because if luck weren't in our side, we'd have been smashed by the favorites.

Yes, a SF isn't as good as winning the whole thing, but we've never had a fluke World Cup winner. Well not since England in 1966? :P I don't know.

Brazil, West Germany, Argentina, Italy, France, and Spain.

If Croatia wins it this year, it'll be the first that a non-favorite would have won the World Cup. Meanwhile, clubs have fluked out a win in the UCL.

So, SFs of a WC is pretty incredible - no matter how you achieve it. England weren't great but they did what they had to do.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby lol » Fri Jul 13, 2018 11:14 am

Ach wrote:
lol wrote:
Ach wrote:
lol wrote:
Ach wrote:And we beat the teams that topped groups and therefore were better than Germany and Argentina.

If Arsenal reached the semi final of any cup competition after not reaching one in 28 years then I'd be delighted. Who we played wouldn't matter cos we don't hand pick these opponents which you lot obviously think we do. Maybe it's time people learned how World Cup works , the draw and how we face who we face.

We played Sutton and Lincoln on the way to winning the fa cup ffs. Apparently that fa cup was shit then and should be erased from the record books.

Dear god.


So performing up to expectation is shit to you?

Beating teams we should be beating is decent, but insisting on calling that great is Wenger-like delusion.

Getting to the world cup semi final is above expectations. Unless you thought they would which is fair enough. You have more faith in them than I did


Yes you definitely have less faith in them than I did by not expecting them to overcome Tunisia, Panama, Colombia and Sweden

Before the tournament I'd have taken a semi final place. No idea who we'd face other than the group's and I didn't care then. Don't care now. You guys seem to think we should forfeit games cos it's too easy. Fortunately football doesn't work that way. We're England ffs. Anyone who thinks Colombia and Sweden are easy for us has never seen us play ever.

Our record v Sweden is horrific. But apparently we should beat them easily. We did. Cos we were that damn good. A Sweden side that topped a group that had the world champions. But they supposed to be easy. Ok then


I don't care which round of the tournament you thought we should be in. Still don't care now either. I only care about who we beat.

Who thought we should forfeit games because they are easy? We played weaker teams and are expected to beat them.

Football works in a way that when a stronger team plays a weaker team, the stronger team is expected to win.

We haven't beaten Sweden for ages, but the fact that we messed up in the past doesn't mean we ought to mess it up forever. If history is what expectations should be based on, care to explain why every bookmaker favoured England to win instead of Sweden?

To claim that we were damn good for beating Sweden is seriously delusional. Are you England's Wenger?
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby theHotHead » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:16 pm

Angelito wrote:Btw, HotHead, I get what you're saying, however, think about it this way.

If Arsenal won the UCL, by avoiding Barca, Real, Bayern, Atleti, and Juve through some incredible anomaly, would we care? On top of that, if we ended up beating Partizan Belgrade in the final, who'd care?

We'd still have lucked out. And we may not have won it if we had faced the big boys, but as fans we would surely lose our shit. And we'd have overachieved still because if luck weren't in our side, we'd have been smashed by the favorites.

Yes, a SF isn't as good as winning the whole thing, but we've never had a fluke World Cup winner. Well not since England in 1966? :P I don't know.

Brazil, West Germany, Argentina, Italy, France, and Spain.

If Croatia wins it this year, it'll be the first that a non-favorite would have won the World Cup. Meanwhile, clubs have fluked out a win in the UCL.

So, SFs of a WC is pretty incredible - no matter how you achieve it. England weren't great but they did what they had to do.

Absolutely and to be fair I am in complete agreement, it was a wonderful run that lifted the nation and had people believing. It doesn't matter how you get there as long as you get there.

My argument is against comments stating England played fantastic or overachieved. We had a favourable run and took advantage. Lets not pretend that we saw some wonderful high level football/performances. Every team we played bar Belgium we were expected to beat, whether people want to admit it or not.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby Ach » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:19 pm

Then you clearly don't know how football works. You don't care that Arsenal win trophies but only who we beat? Ok then.

No point getting in to it if you think a semi final isn't successful for a team that hasn't been there for 28 years.

I for one hope if Arsenal are in the CL, we get shit teams all the way. Wouldn't detract from the win. It would for you but everyone is different.
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Re: Tony Adams on Spurs England Players mentality

Postby lol » Fri Jul 13, 2018 12:27 pm

Ach wrote:Then you clearly don't know how football works. You don't care that Arsenal win trophies but only who we beat? Ok then.

No point getting in to it if you think a semi final isn't successful for a team that hasn't been there for 28 years.

I for one hope if Arsenal are in the CL, we get shit teams all the way. Wouldn't detract from the win. It would for you but everyone is different.


You are clearly quite Wenger-like. Just keep hoping we play weaker teams and think we are like you said, "damn good"
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