Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

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Discuss anything Arsenal related, players, tactics etc.

Is Unai Emery the right man to take Arsenal forward?

Poll runs till Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:36 pm

Yes
18
30%
No
18
30%
Unsure
16
26%
Doesn't matter as long as Kroenke is in charge
9
15%
 
Total votes : 61

Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:29 pm

swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?


Yes.
Wenger was at the club 10 years too long.

Let's be clear, though, Emery's first season was a disaster. After some good spells where some confidence grew, ultimately it turned out to be the usual capitulation under pressure. There was no improvement at all. This summer and next season is critical. Another abject failure like this year and Emery needs to be sacked.
Last edited by jayramfootball on Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby starmandb » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:32 pm

swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby jayramfootball » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:35 pm

starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


It was actually obvious in 2007 that the club was stagnating. Even in the glory years the signs that Wenger was a poor manager were there.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby starmandb » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:49 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


It was actually obvious in 2007 that the club was stagnating. Even in the glory years the signs that Wenger was a poor manager were there.

It's probably true
But I believed he had enough in the credit column to have the right to put things right
For me it was the summer window of 2011 that came at the end of the previous season where we had finished poorly than began 11/12 poorly in effect half a season of relegation form that meant Wenger should have been sacked
To equate that with a man in his first season is just wrong
Emery will be judged and if proven not good enough then we must go again
But I don't believe we are there yet
If as you said before he takes a step off the gas in other competitions to concentrate on Europa league then that is nowhere good enough for Arsenal
If we are not improving after a dozen games next season
I would not be averse for going in another direction
Arsenal managers have my 100 percent support
But they should be under pressure to perform
As should everybody at the club
Wenger latterly engendered an excuse culture that has harmed the competitive nature of the club
That can never be tolerated
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby UFGN » Tue Jun 11, 2019 11:58 pm

jayramfootball wrote:
starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


It was actually obvious in 2007 that the club was stagnating. Even in the glory years the signs that Wenger was a poor manager were there.


My breaking point was September 1st 2009.

In the previous season it had been clear that the squad was short of depth and had little real quality beyond the first 11. I called for action to be taken in January 2008 to add a little depth, nothing too expensive, to help the team push for the title. No improvements were made.

Eduardo got assassinated, we got a few other injuries as well, and our season was f***ked. We should have won the league that season.

So into the summer transfer window Wenger went, with that lesson well and truly learned you would think. What did he do to put it right, in preperation for season 09/10? He did f**k all.

At that point it was crystal clear to me that he had to go. His handling of William Gallas' behavior, his trestment of Gilberto and his mishandling of the Ashley Cole transfer were also major factors for me.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby EliteKiller » Wed Jun 12, 2019 1:27 am

Power n Glory wrote:We have a hands off owner and that's unlikely to change. In order to change that, we'd have to practically set the club on fire to get the owner out. That leaves a lot of damage to recover from.

But looking at the manager and the Wenger situation, I can't understand how he was so comfortable not winning trophies. It reminds me of the Ozil situation. Comfortable picking up a salary with no ambition to win stuff and he regarded as the best. The parameters for success are different for a player and manager compared to the owner. I can see how Stan would look at this as a successful business model and have more a long term vision. But for a manager, that ambition to win should be what drives them. It shouldn't take the owner having a word with the manager to sign better players or spend more. I always thought it should be the manager demanding more support from the board and if the owner is more of hindrance to your ambitions and not supportive, you decide to leave. Players do this all the time when they feel the club can't support their ambition


Excellent post ... hitting the nail on the head

Owners job - to maximise the return on his investment whilst maintaining his asset value - ergo no fire sale or asset striping

- Kroenke invested 500m - now he owns a club worth 2,500m - so tick on return on investment
- Kroenke has allowed operational profits of 800m to all go back into the club - so asset value protected - tick on no fire sale

Management Job - (in our crazy structure that was 100% Gazidis and Wonger)

- Management must maximise return whilst minimizing costs, ergo make a profit - no doubt we have made fantastic income however our costs are out of control - half a tick at best
- Management must invest wisely in the buying and selling of assets - has to be a fail, some good buys but a load of duds, and the selling has been a nothing short of a feckin' disaster
- Management must provide the infrastructure support to instill a club ethic, club tactics, club discipline, all to enable success on the pitch - again this has to be a 50-50, we have the stadium, training ground but do we have the right support staff? To win a couple of cups but not much else, that isn't the level the club should be at - half a tick at best

So you take the last decade and broad brush Kroenke has been a huge success ... he even recognized that his management team were failing and finally got rid of them ... as for personally funding the club? that's simply not in the job description.

Then you look at the management and again broad brush that's been a bit of a failure ... one they had twenty years to get right

The Don's been here less than twelve months ... he still has twelve to go before we can make a call ... add another 20 before we can seriously compare to Wonger.

Read this and worry - https://www.football365.com/news/emery-one-of-too-many-chefs-cooking-up-an-arsenal-shtstorm
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:08 am

swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

Yes! Wenger was shit!! We all knew this season would be a transition so we all should have been prepared for an underwhelming season. The only reason I am giving Emery shit is the position we found ourselves in exceeded expectations but then Emery f***ked it up by doing foolishness.

Still take this last season over having Wenger any day of the week! Wenger was done, finished, useless.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Angelito » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:09 am

starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


Wenger wasn't a problem until 2013—conincidentally, we ended our drought that season. We could have won the title in 13/14 if we had also bought Higuain that summer.

In 2011, Arsenal couldn't keep hold of Cesc and Nasri. No manager could have done anything under such circumstances. Yet, Wenger was still finishing in the top-4, whilst spending pittance until 2013.

For Wenger's sake, he should have left at the end of 13/14. For our sakes, we should have asked Wenger to step down once Klopp was available. And, Wenger should have absolutely never received any contract offer at the end of 16/17. That record FA Cup was a fitting way to step down but Gazidis and Kronke messed up as usual.

And they messed up again a season later..
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:10 am

Zedie wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?


Yes because the previous manager has 22 years to make us dominate and ultimately failed and ended up producing worse than the current manager.

Wenger would have probably done better with more money, but that was impossible because he either lost his influence with kronke to get us to spend or aided and abetted the current manager to scrimp and save. He didnt want to relinquish power to a technical director etc. But couldn't keep up with what was needed.

He needed to go.

The previous manager took 2 seasons to put us on top!!! He identified the problems and fixed them immediately. Can Emery do this??? Next season beckons.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:17 am

EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:We have a hands off owner and that's unlikely to change. In order to change that, we'd have to practically set the club on fire to get the owner out. That leaves a lot of damage to recover from.

But looking at the manager and the Wenger situation, I can't understand how he was so comfortable not winning trophies. It reminds me of the Ozil situation. Comfortable picking up a salary with no ambition to win stuff and he regarded as the best. The parameters for success are different for a player and manager compared to the owner. I can see how Stan would look at this as a successful business model and have more a long term vision. But for a manager, that ambition to win should be what drives them. It shouldn't take the owner having a word with the manager to sign better players or spend more. I always thought it should be the manager demanding more support from the board and if the owner is more of hindrance to your ambitions and not supportive, you decide to leave. Players do this all the time when they feel the club can't support their ambition


Excellent post ... hitting the nail on the head

Owners job - to maximise the return on his investment whilst maintaining his asset value - ergo no fire sale or asset striping

- Kroenke invested 500m - now he owns a club worth 2,500m - so tick on return on investment
- Kroenke has allowed operational profits of 800m to all go back into the club - so asset value protected - tick on no fire sale

Management Job - (in our crazy structure that was 100% Gazidis and Wonger)

- Management must maximise return whilst minimizing costs, ergo make a profit - no doubt we have made fantastic income however our costs are out of control - half a tick at best
- Management must invest wisely in the buying and selling of assets - has to be a fail, some good buys but a load of duds, and the selling has been a nothing short of a feckin' disaster
- Management must provide the infrastructure support to instill a club ethic, club tactics, club discipline, all to enable success on the pitch - again this has to be a 50-50, we have the stadium, training ground but do we have the right support staff? To win a couple of cups but not much else, that isn't the level the club should be at - half a tick at best

So you take the last decade and broad brush Kroenke has been a huge success ... he even recognized that his management team were failing and finally got rid of them ... as for personally funding the club? that's simply not in the job description.

Then you look at the management and again broad brush that's been a bit of a failure ... one they had twenty years to get right

The Don's been here less than twelve months ... he still has twelve to go before we can make a call ... add another 20 before we can seriously compare to Wonger.

Read this and worry - https://www.football365.com/news/emery-one-of-too-many-chefs-cooking-up-an-arsenal-shtstorm

Exactly this. How people can blame Kroenke when the man has allowed the club to spend big millions is a mystery to me. He was complicit with Wenger having carte blanche to run the club how he saw fit, that alone was his only mistake. I want Kroenke gone but I cannot blame him for Arsenal's situation, its Wenger and Wenger alone that made the poor decisions that have cost us, in eroded squad quality.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:24 am

UFGN wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


It was actually obvious in 2007 that the club was stagnating. Even in the glory years the signs that Wenger was a poor manager were there.


My breaking point was September 1st 2009.

In the previous season it had been clear that the squad was short of depth and had little real quality beyond the first 11. I called for action to be taken in January 2008 to add a little depth, nothing too expensive, to help the team push for the title. No improvements were made.

Eduardo got assassinated, we got a few other injuries as well, and our season was f***ked. We should have won the league that season.

So into the summer transfer window Wenger went, with that lesson well and truly learned you would think. What did he do to put it right, in preperation for season 09/10? He did f**k all.

At that point it was crystal clear to me that he had to go. His handling of William Gallas' behavior, his trestment of Gilberto and his mishandling of the Ashley Cole transfer were also major factors for me.

The Ashley Cole thing was especially grating for me. I was close friends with one of Ashley Cole's best friends and during the "will he/won't he" leave saga I tried to get the inside story - but never quite did.

When Cole left I asked my mate why and he told me it was because Arsenal went back on a promise they made to him. Arsenal (I presume Wenger seeing as he was running the show) had promised Cole a bumper pay rise to reward his performances, but the offer was £5k per week short of what he had been promised. He was livid and the club refused to budge. So he left.

Arsene Wenger the tight-ass!!
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Zedie » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:39 am

theHotHead wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:We have a hands off owner and that's unlikely to change. In order to change that, we'd have to practically set the club on fire to get the owner out. That leaves a lot of damage to recover from.

But looking at the manager and the Wenger situation, I can't understand how he was so comfortable not winning trophies. It reminds me of the Ozil situation. Comfortable picking up a salary with no ambition to win stuff and he regarded as the best. The parameters for success are different for a player and manager compared to the owner. I can see how Stan would look at this as a successful business model and have more a long term vision. But for a manager, that ambition to win should be what drives them. It shouldn't take the owner having a word with the manager to sign better players or spend more. I always thought it should be the manager demanding more support from the board and if the owner is more of hindrance to your ambitions and not supportive, you decide to leave. Players do this all the time when they feel the club can't support their ambition


Excellent post ... hitting the nail on the head

Owners job - to maximise the return on his investment whilst maintaining his asset value - ergo no fire sale or asset striping

- Kroenke invested 500m - now he owns a club worth 2,500m - so tick on return on investment
- Kroenke has allowed operational profits of 800m to all go back into the club - so asset value protected - tick on no fire sale

Management Job - (in our crazy structure that was 100% Gazidis and Wonger)

- Management must maximise return whilst minimizing costs, ergo make a profit - no doubt we have made fantastic income however our costs are out of control - half a tick at best
- Management must invest wisely in the buying and selling of assets - has to be a fail, some good buys but a load of duds, and the selling has been a nothing short of a feckin' disaster
- Management must provide the infrastructure support to instill a club ethic, club tactics, club discipline, all to enable success on the pitch - again this has to be a 50-50, we have the stadium, training ground but do we have the right support staff? To win a couple of cups but not much else, that isn't the level the club should be at - half a tick at best

So you take the last decade and broad brush Kroenke has been a huge success ... he even recognized that his management team were failing and finally got rid of them ... as for personally funding the club? that's simply not in the job description.

Then you look at the management and again broad brush that's been a bit of a failure ... one they had twenty years to get right

The Don's been here less than twelve months ... he still has twelve to go before we can make a call ... add another 20 before we can seriously compare to Wonger.

Read this and worry - https://www.football365.com/news/emery-one-of-too-many-chefs-cooking-up-an-arsenal-shtstorm

Exactly this. How people can blame Kroenke when the man has allowed the club to spend big millions is a mystery to me. He was complicit with Wenger having carte blanche to run the club how he saw fit, that alone was his only mistake. I want Kroenke gone but I cannot blame him for Arsenal's situation, its Wenger and Wenger alone that made the poor decisions that have cost us, in eroded squad quality.


You 3 are why the club will not move forward. Who allowed gazidis and Wenger to continue their tit for tat power struggle?

That 500-800m reinvested is fan money that has been put in, along with commercial gains, which are ultimately earned because the fan base put enough money in to make commercial partners want to advertise with us. Literally every other club injects private finance in and would be ready to do so if they fell out of the CL.

Kronke is absentee, doesn't put any money up and leaves his staff to run the club out of CL places and you lot think that's a job well done?

You lot actually deserve the situation we are in.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:45 am

Angelito wrote:
starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


Wenger wasn't a problem until 2013—conincidentally, we ended our drought that season. We could have won the title in 13/14 if we had also bought Higuain that summer.

In 2011, Arsenal couldn't keep hold of Cesc and Nasri. No manager could have done anything under such circumstances. Yet, Wenger was still finishing in the top-4, whilst spending pittance until 2013.

For Wenger's sake, he should have left at the end of 13/14. For our sakes, we should have asked Wenger to step down once Klopp was available. And, Wenger should have absolutely never received any contract offer at the end of 16/17. That record FA Cup was a fitting way to step down but Gazidis and Kronke messed up as usual.

And they messed up again a season later..


The Cesc and Nasri situation was handled badly by Wenger. We were approaching the end of the transfer window hadn't identified replacements and decided to sell Cesc and Nasri at the end of the window. It crippled us. We then went into the January transfer window and blew the lot in a panic. I believe that's the year Wenger took more of a back seat on transfers and it became clear he had lost his edge. Wenger even said he was at a managers conference on deadline day of the January window that year. I suspect Gazidis and others were pulling the strings on those transfers and it reflects in the player quality. Good intentions but not a football expert and it landed us in trouble.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jun 12, 2019 6:54 am

Zedie wrote:
theHotHead wrote:
EliteKiller wrote:
Power n Glory wrote:We have a hands off owner and that's unlikely to change. In order to change that, we'd have to practically set the club on fire to get the owner out. That leaves a lot of damage to recover from.

But looking at the manager and the Wenger situation, I can't understand how he was so comfortable not winning trophies. It reminds me of the Ozil situation. Comfortable picking up a salary with no ambition to win stuff and he regarded as the best. The parameters for success are different for a player and manager compared to the owner. I can see how Stan would look at this as a successful business model and have more a long term vision. But for a manager, that ambition to win should be what drives them. It shouldn't take the owner having a word with the manager to sign better players or spend more. I always thought it should be the manager demanding more support from the board and if the owner is more of hindrance to your ambitions and not supportive, you decide to leave. Players do this all the time when they feel the club can't support their ambition


Excellent post ... hitting the nail on the head

Owners job - to maximise the return on his investment whilst maintaining his asset value - ergo no fire sale or asset striping

- Kroenke invested 500m - now he owns a club worth 2,500m - so tick on return on investment
- Kroenke has allowed operational profits of 800m to all go back into the club - so asset value protected - tick on no fire sale

Management Job - (in our crazy structure that was 100% Gazidis and Wonger)

- Management must maximise return whilst minimizing costs, ergo make a profit - no doubt we have made fantastic income however our costs are out of control - half a tick at best
- Management must invest wisely in the buying and selling of assets - has to be a fail, some good buys but a load of duds, and the selling has been a nothing short of a feckin' disaster
- Management must provide the infrastructure support to instill a club ethic, club tactics, club discipline, all to enable success on the pitch - again this has to be a 50-50, we have the stadium, training ground but do we have the right support staff? To win a couple of cups but not much else, that isn't the level the club should be at - half a tick at best

So you take the last decade and broad brush Kroenke has been a huge success ... he even recognized that his management team were failing and finally got rid of them ... as for personally funding the club? that's simply not in the job description.

Then you look at the management and again broad brush that's been a bit of a failure ... one they had twenty years to get right

The Don's been here less than twelve months ... he still has twelve to go before we can make a call ... add another 20 before we can seriously compare to Wonger.

Read this and worry - https://www.football365.com/news/emery-one-of-too-many-chefs-cooking-up-an-arsenal-shtstorm

Exactly this. How people can blame Kroenke when the man has allowed the club to spend big millions is a mystery to me. He was complicit with Wenger having carte blanche to run the club how he saw fit, that alone was his only mistake. I want Kroenke gone but I cannot blame him for Arsenal's situation, its Wenger and Wenger alone that made the poor decisions that have cost us, in eroded squad quality.


You 3 are why the club will not move forward. Who allowed gazidis and Wenger to continue their tit for tat power struggle?

That 500-800m reinvested is fan money that has been put in, along with commercial gains, which are ultimately earned because the fan base put enough money in to make commercial partners want to advertise with us. Literally every other club injects private finance in and would be ready to do so if they fell out of the CL.

Kronke is absentee, doesn't put any money up and leaves his staff to run the club out of CL places and you lot think that's a job well done?

You lot actually deserve the situation we are in.


So you're proposal is we starve the club of funds and sponsorship money to force the owner out but new FFP rulings mean we can't spend money we haven't generated within the club. So that's sponsorships, tickets sales and merch.

It's not smart. But then again, focusing on three posters and putting the blame on us for the state the club says enough. If owners can no longer pump their own money into a club, what would you're proposal help solve except tank the club further down the table?
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Wed Jun 12, 2019 7:15 am

theHotHead wrote:
UFGN wrote:
jayramfootball wrote:
starmandb wrote:
swipe right wrote:So here’s my question. Had you known the new manager would finish fifth and embarrassingly blow out of the EL, would you still have pushed to terminate Wengers contract, or would you have let it expire this summer and not renewed?

I would have sacked Wenger in October 2011


It was actually obvious in 2007 that the club was stagnating. Even in the glory years the signs that Wenger was a poor manager were there.


My breaking point was September 1st 2009.

In the previous season it had been clear that the squad was short of depth and had little real quality beyond the first 11. I called for action to be taken in January 2008 to add a little depth, nothing too expensive, to help the team push for the title. No improvements were made.

Eduardo got assassinated, we got a few other injuries as well, and our season was f***ked. We should have won the league that season.

So into the summer transfer window Wenger went, with that lesson well and truly learned you would think. What did he do to put it right, in preperation for season 09/10? He did f**k all.

At that point it was crystal clear to me that he had to go. His handling of William Gallas' behavior, his trestment of Gilberto and his mishandling of the Ashley Cole transfer were also major factors for me.

The Ashley Cole thing was especially grating for me. I was close friends with one of Ashley Cole's best friends and during the "will he/won't he" leave saga I tried to get the inside story - but never quite did.

When Cole left I asked my mate why and he told me it was because Arsenal went back on a promise they made to him. Arsenal (I presume Wenger seeing as he was running the show) had promised Cole a bumper pay rise to reward his performances, but the offer was £5k per week short of what he had been promised. He was livid and the club refused to budge. So he left.

Arsene Wenger the tight-ass!!


I remember it was David Dein that took most of the heat for that Ashley Cole situation. Cole seemed to hold him responsible for the way it panned out. He also mentioned how Henry was also negotiating a contract and he didn't like the way he was being treated in comparison. Henry was being treated to expensive dinners and getting a lot of personal attention according to Cole. That obviously wasn't happening for Cole. I think the club may have taken Cole for granted because he was English and their was an assumption that he'd sign because he's English and came up through the club youth system.

That attitude continued after Cole left. I remember Walcott and Ox going through similar situations. Contract renewal talks would start late even though the players had less than 2 years left on their deals and I'm sure Theo once said that they shouldn't just assume he'd sign anything they offer just because he's English. Really bad management and stems from Wenger's idea of young English players being more loyal to the club.
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