Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

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Is Unai Emery the right man to take Arsenal forward?

Poll ended at Tue Aug 27, 2019 9:36 pm

Yes
18
27%
No
22
33%
Unsure
16
24%
Doesn't matter as long as Kroenke is in charge
10
15%
 
Total votes : 66

Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Angelito » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:47 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
Angelito wrote:
swipe right wrote:Philosophical question. Should the manager adapt his system to the players he has, as Emery is being asked to do? Or should the club adapt the squad to the system the manager is best known for, like Guardiola? I guess it depends on the resources of the club and the reputation of the manager.


First season, adapt to existing players. Embed vision slowly.

If the end objective is in and around the season objective set prior to recruitment, proceed to second season. Also, the pedigree of the manager has to be taken into account.

Allow the manager to sign 2-3 of his players depending on budget and set season objectives. If the manager is on track, good. If he isn't on track, assess issues.

2nd season is a must deliver season. In the case of Arsenal it's top-4 in the league. If he's delivering, reinforce where and when needed. If not, depending on the class of the manager, sack him.

It's crucial to hire the right manager. It's also important to know when to back a manager like Liverpool with Klopp, and when to sack him - like ManU under Moyes or Mourinho this season.





First two and a half mins of that video will tell you everything you both want to know, and where you're wrong in the case of Angelito.


There's nothing right and wrong here.

I was being general. You lot again turned it into some anti-Emery narrative.

What Neville is saying is true when it comes to managers who have the pedigree of Klopp, Pep, Conte, etc. We saw what they wanted to achieve in their first season at their clubs even if they lost.

So far, this season we haven't seen that from Unai. There is room for improvement, of course. But if he doesn't deliver next season, or improves on the football we play, he should be sacked. I don't think that's really arguable. That said, if Pep, Klopp, Conte, Simeone, etc. were in place of Emery, I'd be willing to give them 3 seasons because of their career track record.

Simple.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Rockape » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:53 pm

So far, this season we haven't seen that from Unai. If he doesn't deliver next season, he should be sacked. I don't think that's really arguable. That said, if Pep, Klopp, Conte, Simeone, etc. were in place of Emery, I'd be willing to give them 3 seasons because of their career track record.



Deliver what....Top 4 or be sacked? That indeed would be ridiculous!

Sure, that's what we all want and hope for, but with the cards he's been dealt we can really only expect 6th or 5th if others drop back. Top four as has been said already, would involve all those teams with more money and better players falling backwards, to allow us a chance of taking advantage. Until such time as he's been given the money to spend and the time to forge his team, then 5th or 6th would be a good achievement.
Last edited by Rockape on Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Luzh 22 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 2:54 pm

Angelito wrote:There's nothing right and wrong here.

I was being general. You lot again turned it into some anti-Emery narrative.


I've done no such thing, I said you were wrong. What made you you say that? And who are "you lot" - AFAIK it's only me who has challenged that post?

Angelito wrote:First season, adapt to existing players. Embed vision slowly.


This ^ is directly contradictory to this v.

Angelito wrote:What Neville is saying is true when it comes to managers who have the pedigree of Klopp, Pep, Conte, etc. We saw what they wanted to achieve in their first season at their clubs even if they lost.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Angelito » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:06 pm

Rockape wrote:
So far, this season we haven't seen that from Unai. If he doesn't deliver next season, he should be sacked. I don't think that's really arguable. That said, if Pep, Klopp, Conte, Simeone, etc. were in place of Emery, I'd be willing to give them 3 seasons because of their career track record.



Deliver what....Top 4 or be sacked? That indeed would be ridiculous!

Sure, that's what we all want and hope for, but with the cards he's been dealt we can really only expect 6th or 5th if others drop back. Top four as has been said already, would involve all those teams with more money and better players falling backwards, to allow us a chance of taking advantage. Until such time as he's been given the money to spend and the time to forge his team, then 5th or 6th would be a good achievement.


Top-4 or win the FA Cup/EL.

And, you'd want to keep him even if we failed to do the above next season?

I don't think top-4's that difficult to achieve if we have an astute manager. We do have some stellar players. It's just that Unai hasn't been able to get the best out of them, rather like Wenger in his last 2-3 seasons. It will, however, be tough next season if United get a top class manager.


Luzh 22 wrote:
Angelito wrote:There's nothing right and wrong here.

I was being general. You lot again turned it into some anti-Emery narrative.


I've done no such thing, I said you were wrong. What made you you say that? And who are "you lot" - AFAIK it's only me who has challenged that post?

Angelito wrote:First season, adapt to existing players. Embed vision slowly.


This ^ is directly contradictory to this v.

Angelito wrote:What Neville is saying is true when it comes to managers who have the pedigree of Klopp, Pep, Conte, etc. We saw what they wanted to achieve in their first season at their clubs even if they lost.


There is no right and wrong. It's about a philosophy and what works for one, doesn't work for the other.

As for adapting to the players you have, Pep, Klopp, and Conte all did this, whilst also embedding their vision slowly. City already had world class players and played attacking, free-flowing football when Pep arrived, so the transition wasn't that difficult for them. He just made them better. Liverpool's change from Rodgers' attacking football to Klopp's high-pressing style also didn't happen all of a sudden but we saw glimpses of it. In Klopp's case, he has a record of building title-winning/challenging sides from scratch, without sugar daddy owners. The tonal shift isn't there, if you look at it carefully. Ditto Conte at Chelsea.

At Arsenal, I can see a tonal shift between Wengerball/Wenger's ideas and whatever style it is that Emery is trying to implement. They're not from the same school. Pep and Pellegrini are pretty much from the same school.

Basically, you're looking at everything in isolation and have twisted my general answer to Swipe's question into something it's not.

And, you might want to read the bold bit again. In our case, Unai Emery isn't that class.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Luzh 22 » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:24 pm

Someone want to help Angelito out with Klopp's honour list versus that of Emery's? "Pedigree" and "class" :lol:


On the contrary. I am not twisting things. You're quite clearly twisting things to fit your agenda though,
like the inconsistencies and contradictions in your own posts.


Have at it mate, you're not for turning, so go ahead.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Angelito » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:35 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:Someone want to help Angelito out with Klopp's honour list versus that of Emery's? "Pedigree" and "class" :lol:


On the contrary. I am not twisting things. You're quite clearly twisting things to fit your agenda though,
like the inconsistencies and contradictions in your own posts.


Have at it mate, you're not for turning, so go ahead.


Cba arguing about futile technicalities with your condescending tone.

Can't wake a person who's pretending to sleep.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Power n Glory » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:36 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:
Angelito wrote:
swipe right wrote:Philosophical question. Should the manager adapt his system to the players he has, as Emery is being asked to do? Or should the club adapt the squad to the system the manager is best known for, like Guardiola? I guess it depends on the resources of the club and the reputation of the manager.


First season, adapt to existing players. Embed vision slowly.

If the end objective is in and around the season objective set prior to recruitment, proceed to second season. Also, the pedigree of the manager has to be taken into account.

Allow the manager to sign 2-3 of his players depending on budget and set season objectives. If the manager is on track, good. If he isn't on track, assess issues.

2nd season is a must deliver season. In the case of Arsenal it's top-4 in the league. If he's delivering, reinforce where and when needed. If not, depending on the class of the manager, sack him.

It's crucial to hire the right manager. It's also important to know when to back a manager like Liverpool with Klopp, and when to sack him - like ManU under Moyes or Mourinho this season.





First two and a half mins of that video will tell you everything you both want to know, and where you're wrong in the case of Angelito.


But Emery seems to be adapting to the players. He doesn’t play 3-4-3 or 3-5-2. He doesn’t have a history of using that formation. He’s jumped to using a 4-4-2 flat line, 4-4-2 diamond…..his preferred formation is supposed to be the 4-2-3-1. Is this tactical or indecision and panic to try and see what sticks? He’s openly said the team is low on confidence so you have to question whether the chopping and changing is helping.

Personally, I think he should stick to his own philosophy. I remember when this video came out. It was during the comical moments where Cech was trying to play it short. I don’t even think we play the ball short that often these days. We’re certainly not pressing that hard and we’ve abandoned possession based football for some games and tried to defend deep. I’d like for someone to explain what we’re trying to achieve and what’s going on down there on the pitch. Lobbing these sort of questions to posters doesn’t really make a difference. We need more clarity and understanding about what’s happening and so far, I’ve listened to so many podcasts, read blogs from guys that usually have a good nose for what’s happening tactically on the pitch and they seem just as confused.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby BrunelGooner » Tue Feb 12, 2019 3:36 pm

I do not accept this argument that "We can't see what Emery's trying to do". We can, and we could see what he was doing to begin with, but he just hasn't had the players fit/available to play the way he wants which is why we chop and change so much.

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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Goonerz » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:01 pm

LMAO wrote:
swipe right wrote:Philosophical question. Should the manager adapt his system to the players he has, as Emery is being asked to do? Or should the club adapt the squad to the system the manager is best known for, like Guardiola? I guess it depends on the resources of the club and the reputation of the manager.


First season - adapt to players while beginning to implement preferred style
Second season - replace weakest links (i.e., players who don't fit preferred system) and continue to shift to system
Third season - long enough to have brought own players in/kept players who fit system. Training wheels off, full implementation

Or you could be a club with world class players all over the place who can immediately adapt to any play style.

Why would any manager want to adapt to a team of weak / lazy pampered primadonnas that have been struggling for 5 seasons and in the last 2 seasons have finished 5th and 6th?
What is there to adapt to with such dross players?

I like what Emery is doing, today’s footabll has no time to wait for any manager, they need to start implementing their philosophy from the moment they are hired because the average life span of a modern manager is about 2 years. So no time to waste.
I heard that Emery signed a 2 year contract with us, the man is fighting for his own future and reputation here.

I would hate for any new manager to try adapting to this weak squad. Wenger did it, bent over for them and look where it has gotten us. The whole squad needs the tough love that Emery is showing them.

He might not succeed but i like his tough style of not sweet treating our overly pampered primadonnas. Next season is gona be the time for me to turn to Emery and start asking some critical questions of him.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Goonerz » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:29 pm

theHotHead wrote:
Goonerz wrote:It’s the same people that will say the opposite in other threads “Play to the players strengths. Play to the squad’s strengths. So and so player shouldn’t be asked to do the nitty gritty because that is not his game blah blah”.

Let me ask, what are our strengths as a team in the last 5 or so seasons? Do we even have any strengths. :doh: :think:

Thats right, play to a player's strengths. If you want a fast car no point buying a slow car and try to make it fast. Players can be improved, how many times have you heard players say they want to play under a certain manager so they can grow and improve. But you are not using your brain, you think that players can improve all facets other game, thats not what I said or inferred The biggest improvement Arsenal can make is as a team in our defending, I have stated this time and time and time again. Perhaps you read things with your eyes wide shut.

So you play to Xhaka’s strengths. Play to Ramsey’s strengths. Play to Ozil’s strengths. Play to iwobi’s strengths. Play to Mustafi’s strengths. Play to Kola’s strengths. Play to Auba’s strengths. Play to Laca’s strengths etc.. Where does it stop? Because I will tell you that the Xhaka fans have demanded we play to his strengths. The Ozil base keep demanding for the team to play to Ozil’s strengths. The Ramsey fans been demanding we play to Ramsey’s stengths. The Iwobi fans are now asking for the team to play him as a #10 because that is his preferred position. People wanted the team to play to both Auba and Laca strengths, but we know one of them has to compromise and play on the wing, so his supporters will not be happy if their man is not getting the numbers.

This means we have to choose one player over the others and then play to his strengths. Then we will be in the same position where disgruntled fans of other players will not be happy.

I say they all should adapt to the managers philosophy then earn the right and respect first.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby Losmeister » Tue Feb 12, 2019 4:58 pm

hOT hEAD DOES NOT RESPOND TO COACHING

will GW fire me?
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:02 pm

DiamondGooner wrote:
Your really struggling here, how come Sokratis is doing fine but Mustafi isn't?

How come Bellerin is doing fine but Lich isn't?

Kos is just passed his prime, no training is going to bring that back, maybe he can get back to more form but that will depend on him.

Look back to the 2nd Chelsea game, everyone said (and it was) our best defensive performance to date, the issue is only Sokratis is the one carrying on anywhere near that type of form, do you think they've stopped training since then?

Your making this much harder than it needs to be because your desperately trying to prove a point by reaching.
Here's the easy version ........... our CB's (bar Sokratis) are NOT good enough.

Just nod, it's much easier.

Dude you don't know that they are coaching the defence at all. The same way that we know Wenger did no defensive coaching - which came as a shock to us all - how do we know the same isn't true with Emery?? We saw an immediate change in playing out from the back. We saw an immediate change in firing in lots of crosses. But no change in defensive strength.

And if they are coaching defence, they are f***ing shit at it!!! Newcastle and Wolves look better defensively than we do, with far worse players. They look like they have defensive shape, did you see their game yesterday? Both teams look like a unit when they defend, how comes we don't?

If Allardyce can go to clubs and you can see an immediate difference, why can't we see any improvement whatsover?? Its bloody worse than it was before even.

Sokratis looks like our best CB, Mustafi makes a mistake in pretty much ever game, far more than Sokratis.

Bellerin improved his game going forward but is still shit defending. Lich is shit going forward and defending, worse even than Bellerin.

I'm not trying desperately to prove any point. I don't see a single sign of defensive coaching taking place, nada, niente, zilch, squat, f**k all! You have absolutely no clue what the players do in training apart from the official clips the club release, yours is a massive assumption but the evidence does not back up your point.

This team can improve defensively. How many times have you seen the team move as a unit defensively?
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:07 pm

Zedie wrote:@ hothead - I genuinely can't be arsed to pick apart that entire essay point by point, but this is the crux of the matter:

You want the players to have more defensive solidity and to play like a unit. You believe this can be done through training the team, no matter what the set of players ie what we have now.

Training a unit depends on many things, such as:

Can the players follow the instructions
Can the players understand and then carry out the instructions
Can the players retain the lessons before you move on to the next one etc.

What me and many others are saying is there comes a point where no matter how much training you give players, they will be limited by their mental or physical ability to carry out or understand the managers game plan.

These players are not at any mental or physical limit FFS.

Its funny how you lot can find bare excuses for stuff. Lesser managers with lesser resources are able to go to lesser clubs and effect change, but noooo, it cant happen at Arsenal, we have to change our entire squad to do so.

Nonsense.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby DiamondGooner » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:20 pm

theHotHead wrote:
DiamondGooner wrote:
Your really struggling here, how come Sokratis is doing fine but Mustafi isn't?

How come Bellerin is doing fine but Lich isn't?

Kos is just passed his prime, no training is going to bring that back, maybe he can get back to more form but that will depend on him.

Look back to the 2nd Chelsea game, everyone said (and it was) our best defensive performance to date, the issue is only Sokratis is the one carrying on anywhere near that type of form, do you think they've stopped training since then?

Your making this much harder than it needs to be because your desperately trying to prove a point by reaching.
Here's the easy version ........... our CB's (bar Sokratis) are NOT good enough.

Just nod, it's much easier.

Dude you don't know that they are coaching the defence at all. The same way that we know Wenger did no defensive coaching - which came as a shock to us all - how do we know the same isn't true with Emery?? We saw an immediate change in playing out from the back. We saw an immediate change in firing in lots of crosses. But no change in defensive strength.

And if they are coaching defence, they are f***ing shit at it!!! Newcastle and Wolves look better defensively than we do, with far worse players. They look like they have defensive shape, did you see their game yesterday? Both teams look like a unit when they defend, how comes we don't?

If Allardyce can go to clubs and you can see an immediate difference, why can't we see any improvement whatsover?? Its bloody worse than it was before even.

Sokratis looks like our best CB, Mustafi makes a mistake in pretty much ever game, far more than Sokratis.

Bellerin improved his game going forward but is still shit defending. Lich is shit going forward and defending, worse even than Bellerin.

I'm not trying desperately to prove any point. I don't see a single sign of defensive coaching taking place, nada, niente, zilch, squat, f**k all! You have absolutely no clue what the players do in training apart from the official clips the club release, yours is a massive assumption but the evidence does not back up your point.

This team can improve defensively. How many times have you seen the team move as a unit defensively?


Wenger had a particular way of doing things but Emery is stickler for detail, trains his players, that's been documented throughout, the players have mentioned it etc and they have a defensive coach.

Of course they're training defense, do you not see how they play out from the back etc you don't think they train anything else? even look how bad they are at that compared to City.

You say "How do you know?" fine ........... how to you know they're not?

Considering its a football team with coaches I'd assume a professional team trains defense, Wenger is Wenger, you can't tar everyone with that brush.

Finally to say their crap at it, again, maybe its not the coaches, these defenders have been pretty consistently crap for years.

Point is ........... we need better defenders, Sokratis has been proof of that, you insisting we can get Mustafi to become a better player is reaching, he's had training at AFC whatever they offer and he is who he is, if they don't train defense then that doesn't change the point, a better defender wouldn't need so much drilling.
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Re: Unai Emery, Arsenal Head Coach

Postby theHotHead » Tue Feb 12, 2019 6:37 pm

Luzh 22 wrote:Someone want to help Angelito out with Klopp's honour list versus that of Emery's? "Pedigree" and "class" :lol:


On the contrary. I am not twisting things. You're quite clearly twisting things to fit your agenda though,
like the inconsistencies and contradictions in your own posts.


Have at it mate, you're not for turning, so go ahead.

Wait, are you comparing Klopp's achievements with Emery's ? And if so are you saying Emery has achieved more or are you literally talking about trophies won ? Because what Klopp did at Dortmund is nothing short of incredible. Klopp rebuilt Dortmund after they were on the financial brink of collapse and couldn't pay their players.
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